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Pope Francis - Servant Leadership
tycho
#121 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:20:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Firstly, I have to say that I have answered your question on the name Jesus Christ. But perhaps I should mention explicitly that 'Jesus' comes from 'Yehoshua' meaning 'Yahweh is salvation' and 'Christ', 'the annointed one'. Taking these meanings into consideration ends in the definition above.

Having said this, I'd like to reiterate that the Muslim denial of Christ is true and tacit. Here is my proof.

1. Islam denies the Divinity of Christ as you have affirmed, while the very name and meaning points at God's incarnation as Man. 'Yahweh is salvation'. It is about Yahweh Himself acting, or intervening in history.

2. You affirm that Islam encourages struggle for liberation against oppression. But Christ bids us to find freedom through self denial and the embrace of a greater Self that is the most High. That is, the Divinity of Man is offered through Christ, and is the answer to oppression.

The mere fact that Islam encourages uprising against oppression, and denies the ultimate Divinity of Man, it follows that it must embrace terror and violence when meeting other religions like Christianity.

And this is an example of Islam's deficiency in matters Spiritual; it has no model for the ultimate Man.
tycho
#122 Posted : Tuesday, April 02, 2013 10:34:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
The third reason as to why I posit that Islam has tacitly denied the Christ is in its denial of the crucifixion.

The crucifixion is the ultimate symbol of Yahweh's act of saving Man. A possible reason for this denial may be the fact of the resurrection, an event that occurs when Man gets conscious of Christ's message and import, and is transformed by the blood and body of the Crucified Christ.
AlphDoti
#123 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:08:34 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
Firstly, I have to say that I have answered your question on the name Jesus Christ. But perhaps I should mention explicitly that 'Jesus' comes from 'Yehoshua' meaning 'Yahweh is salvation' and 'Christ', 'the annointed one'. Taking these meanings into consideration ends in the definition above.

You're talking about Jesus Christ, son of Mary (peace be upon them all)!! Yet in your earlier post you called yourself by the same name. Please demonstrate what you claim by respecting this great messenger of Allah.

Let me put it here for record, just incase you missed it before:
Islam is the only none-Christian faith, which makes it an act of Faith to believe in Jesus Christ (pbuh).

No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus Christ (pbuh).

We believe that:
- Jesus was one of the mightiest messenger of God.
- We believe that he was born miraculously without any male intervention.
- We believe that he was the "Messiah" translated "Christ"
- We believe he gave life to the death with God's permission.
- We beleive he healed those born blind and deaf and lepers with God's permission.

BUT muslims do not regard Jesus as (pbuh) Almighty God, and he's not a part of a trinity.
Trinity does not exist. He never claimed divinity.


Since you're Christian, I give you evidence:
John 14:28 - My father is greater than I.
John 10:29 - My Fatrher is greater than all.
Matt 12:18 - I cast out devils with the spirit of God.
Luke 11:20 - I with the finger of God cast out devils.
John 05:30 - I can't of my own do nothing. AS I hear, I judge. For I speak not of my will, but the will of my Father.
Mark 13:32 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the Father.
Luke 4:8 - It is written: 'worship the Lord your God and serve Him only'

Quran 1:4 - You alone we worship, you alone we ask for help.

Luke 11:2 - Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Matt 7:21 - None of those who call me lord will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

Anyone who says, not my will but God will is a Muslim.
Muslim means the one submits his will to the will of God. Jesus Christ says, not my will but God's will.

PLEASE TELL ME WHICH ONE ABOVE AR ACCUSING ISLAM ABOUT? IF BEING CHRISTIAN IS FOLLOWING TEACHINGS OF JESUS, DON'T YOU REALIZE THAT YOU CLAIM TO FOLLOW JESUS, BUT ACTUALLY MUSLIMS ARE MORE CHRISTIAN THAN YOU d'oh! d'oh!
tycho
#124 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 6:34:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@AlphDoti, I hope you realize that you haven't mentioned that you believe in the resurrection of the Christ?
symbols
#125 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 7:47:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
@AlphDoti - Why do you think Christ interchanges between God and Father?
AlphDoti
#126 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 7:53:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
tycho wrote:
@AlphDoti, I hope you realize that you haven't mentioned that you believe in the resurrection of the Christ?

One thing at a time Shame on you

I appreciate that you want to go straight to the other point
But, I want this be a good discussion where if you have a question and you ask me, I answer honesty without going round it.
And when you ask me, i answer honestly.

I wanted us to exhaust one point first
Such that when I see your point of view and you see my point of view, we agree and move to next point.

But if you ignore points raised in my post
...and you want us to go straight to another point, then it won't help us.
Because if later I show you something which goes against what you already know and believed in, you'll say I didn't agree with that in the first place.

You know that genuine person will say, oh yes, I see this or I didn't know that.
But if this person is a lier, he'll say "what about this one, what about that one".


So I don't want to sit here and argue
If we can't scrutinize the witness, our witness the Bible together, then we'll not agree.

NOTE: Remember there is no court in the world in which the judge convicts a person before interviewing him.
AlphDoti
#127 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 7:56:33 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - Why do you think Christ interchanges between God and Father

According to you and your church. Not according to Jesus (peace be upn him). And not according to the true scripture (I mean scripture before your leaders decided to corrupt it).
symbols
#128 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:13:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - Why do you think Christ interchanges between God and Father

According to you and your church. Not according to Jesus (peace be upn him). And not according to the true scripture (I mean scripture before your leaders decided to corrupt it).

What did the scripture say before it was corrupted and what was corrupted?
Can you explain John 1:1-18?
Why did Jesus say
Quote:
In the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit

and not names?
AlphDoti
#129 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:24:42 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
symbols wrote:
AlphDoti wrote:
symbols wrote:
@AlphDoti - Why do you think Christ interchanges between God and Father

According to you and your church. Not according to Jesus (peace be upn him). And not according to the true scripture (I mean scripture before your leaders decided to corrupt it).

What did the scripture say before it was corrupted and what was corrupted?
Can you explain John 1:1-18?
Why did Jesus say
Quote:
In the name of the Father,Son and Holy Spirit

and not names?

You see, the Bible has three types of words:
1. The Words of God
2. The words of the prophets and messengers of God
3. The words of the writers or narrators

I've given some examples in my post #123.

It is up to you to decide which one is true.

My questions are:
1. Do you now understand what Islam says about Jesus (peace be upon him)? If you think otherwise, produce evidence.
2. I gave you evidence why Jesus (pbuh) is not God. Do you agree or disagree with these evidences from your own Bible? If you disagree, does it mean there are contradictions in your Bible?
3. Do you agree that Jesus (pbuh) submit to the will of God and not His will?
4. Do you agree that Jesus Christ (pbuh) is great messenger of God and no one should call himself him unless it is him? (I think @tycho called himself Christ in one of his posts)
symbols
#130 Posted : Wednesday, April 03, 2013 8:40:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/19/2013
Posts: 2,552
AlphDoti wrote:

You see, the Bible has three types of words:
1. The Words of God
2. The words of the prophets and messengers of God
3. The words of the writers or narrators

I've given some examples in my post #123.

I agree,there are those three but you have not given evidence of where and what the corruption is.On the same principle,who's to say the Quran is not corrupted.
AlphDoti wrote:

My questions are:
1. Do you now understand what Islam says about Jesus (peace be upon him)? If you think otherwise, produce evidence.
2. I gave you evidence why Jesus (pbuh) is not God. Do you agree or disagree with these evidences from your own Bible? If you disagree, does it mean there are contradictions in your Bible?
3. Do you agree that Jesus (pbuh) submit to the will of God and not His will?
4. Do you agree that Jesus Christ (pbuh) is great messenger of God and no one should call himself him unless it is him? (I think @tycho called himself Christ in one of his posts)

From your posts I understand Islams position on Jesus but find it odd that you are referring the same bible you claim to be corrupt to back up your point.

Yes you have given evidence that Jesus is not God but fail to address the issue of the trinity or at the very least the previous questions I've asked.

Yes Jesus submits and professes that all must submit to the Will of God but he himself brings up God,The Father,The Son and The Holy Spirit.Are you suggesting it was a simple mistake?

I believe Christ is not only a messenger of God but His Word.
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