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For the legal minds: When is marriage recorgnised?
poundfoolish
#1 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:38:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
I've often thought that the Kenyan gentleman always perform 2-3 ceremonies to validate his marriage, of which completion of any should change your marital status.

1. Customary
2. Church wedding
3. Legal signing (AG or during wedding)
and more recently
4. Six months come we stay

I'm duly informed that for those of us who are dragged through the entire 3, the court will only recognize a marriage based on your lifestyle. i.e. if you were a professed Christian and performed the customary rights, upto Itaara & Ruracio, you are still not married to the lady until you do the wedding.

My question is. When does the govt recorgnise a marriage?
Is it by your confessed lifestyle (e.g Christian hence a church wedding is a must) or by some marked event (Ruracio, church ceremony, AG appearance ...?

If you did customary rites and planning to do the wedding later on. does the govt recorgnise the two of you as married under customary law?

I'm asking for a friend *hides*

McReggae
#2 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:45:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
After customary and both are in agreement, just get to sign an affidavit before and advocate and voila, you are married!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
ZZE123
#3 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:22:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/21/2008
Posts: 2,490
Or put a Bun in the oven and you will not realize how fast you can get married!
The man who marries a beautiful woman, and the farmer who grows corn by the roadside have the same problem
Kusadikika
#4 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:58:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,703
I am not a legal mind but tell your friend to consider what the girl will say when put on the stand to proove that she was indeed married. "I lived in his house and we used to do everything together, he used to give me money and buy me clothes, I cooked for him and cleaned the house. He even came to our home and I introduced him to my parents and I even used to visit his parents............" Remember in court it is who makes the best case and if you have a judge who will be smiling like Judge Njoki Ndung'u listening to Kethi Kilonzo as your girl makes her case your friend can be judged to have been married.
poundfoolish
#5 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:03:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.
McReggae
#6 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:14:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
poundfoolish wrote:
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.


Kweli ilikuja na meli!!!

......kwani somebody wants to jump, once you complete the customary rites your are married mblo!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Wendz
#7 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:16:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/19/2008
Posts: 4,268
poundfoolish wrote:
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.



I think it is... because they might look at the intention of those acts and what, according to the particular tradition, signified marriage. I also think, whether or not you profess a certain religion, as long as you have gone through the customary marriage rights and no christian wedding, you are still deemed to be marriage. This is because we are African and we are assumed to have practiced 'traditional wedding' through those rites.

PS. this is not from a legal expert.

@mcrg.... I actually thought he meant "leave the gal at the parent's home" - which didnt make sense... so i bet am also sinking with the bloody meli!
Mukiri
#8 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:22:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
McReggae wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.


Kweli ilikuja na meli!!!

......kwani somebody wants to jump, once you complete the customary rites your are married mblo!!!!

Mblo, ilikuja na meli kwelismile

Proverbs 19:21
McReggae
#9 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:24:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Mukiri wrote:
McReggae wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.


Kweli ilikuja na meli!!!

......kwani somebody wants to jump, once you complete the customary rites your are married mblo!!!!

Mblo, ilikuja na meli kwelismile


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly .....ei boss, that just an extra unwanted r!!!!
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
banyamulenge
#10 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:27:02 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 481
Mblo kubali yaishe. Uko ndani ya mbox. Ama ni container? Applause

Laughing out loudly Another one bites the ndustLaughing out loudly

"The longer the fuse the mightier the blast!"
sparkly
#11 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:18:40 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Marriages recognized in Kenya:

1. Statutory Marriages - African Christian Marriage (Church), Civil (AG and his officers in the Districts), Hindu (temple), Islamic (Kadhi). For these marriages you get a certificate from the state law office.

2. Customary - Ruracio, Ngurario etc etc. Once you go through all those rites, you are married. No need for papers. The wazees will come and give evidence if there is a dispute.

3. Common law marriage/ Presumption of Marriage/ marriage by reputation/ Marriage by cohabitation - You live together as man and wife and you look like a couple to the community. You can't turn around and say you were not married,unless you had entered into an agreement stating that it is only a convenience arrangement.

4. A marriage recognized by a foreign jurisdiction. The US supreme court is deciding whether gay marriages are legal or not under US constitution. If gay marriage is legal in the US and a gay couple come to live in Kenya, the Kenya law will be forced to recognize that marriage.

In a nutshell, no need of going through three ceremonies of marriage if you can avoid it i.e. customary marriage, then church/ Victorian, then civil marriage.

Note that even in church, the pastor just officiates the ceremony and the certificate is obtained from the AG's office.

You can skip all these processes, go to the AG's office, pick a date (21 days away or more), pin a notice on the notice board at Sheria house or the DC's office, turn up with 2 witnesses on the appointed date, exchange your rings and vows. Total cost Approx KShs 2,000 for the documentations... Then fly-off for the honey moon.

lucky are you if your "wife to be" will buy into this very simple yet effective marriage.



Life is short. Live passionately.
AlphDoti
#12 Posted : Thursday, March 28, 2013 4:40:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
McReggae wrote:
Mukiri wrote:
McReggae wrote:
poundfoolish wrote:
So if somebody goes through the customary rites but still doesn't leave with the lady. It is not yet considered a marriage.

and i'm specifically talking of the practice as it is done nowdays..
Wazees meet, lesos, sodas, visits, dowry, and some months down the line a church wedding.

Kweli ilikuja na meli!!!

......kwani somebody wants to jump, once you complete the customary rites your are married mblo!!!!

Mblo, ilikuja na meli kwelismile

Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly .....ei boss, that just an extra unwanted r!!!!

As @McReggae and @sparky say, once wazees completes the negotiation and dowry agreed upon (even before you pay), it's marriage recognized by the law.
mpobiz
#13 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 12:42:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 8/10/2010
Posts: 2,264
ZZE123 wrote:
Or put a Bun in the oven and you will not realize how fast you can get married!


True african marriage pap!. hio ingine ni ya wazungu
Politics is just things to keep the people divided and foolish and put your trust in men and none of them can do nothing for you...
sparkly
#14 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 2:34:57 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
mpobiz wrote:
ZZE123 wrote:
Or put a Bun in the oven and you will not realize how fast you can get married!


True african marriage pap!. hio ingine ni ya wazungu


The Wazungu marriage has peculiar technicalities eg there has to be consummation after the ceremony, both must be 18 and over (although a girl between 16-18 can get married with her parent's written permission), sane, sober, not still married to someone else.

Customary law marriage only needs to conform to custom. In my community a young man who could not afford to pay dowry would just sneak with his friends into the maiden's homestead at night and carry her away.

The damsel would make a lot of keleles for effect. Her relatives would give chase lest it be said that they allowed their daughter to be "stolen".

Hata hio ni marriage.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Foz00
#15 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 4:24:39 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 297
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Marriages recognized in Kenya:

1. Statutory Marriages - African Christian Marriage (Church), Civil (AG and his officers in the Districts), Hindu (temple), Islamic (Kadhi). For these marriages you get a certificate from the state law office.

2. Customary - Ruracio, Ngurario etc etc. Once you go through all those rites, you are married. No need for papers. The wazees will come and give evidence if there is a dispute.

3. Common law marriage/ Presumption of Marriage/ marriage by reputation/ Marriage by cohabitation - You live together as man and wife and you look like a couple to the community. You can't turn around and say you were not married,unless you had entered into an agreement stating that it is only a convenience arrangement.

4. A marriage recognized by a foreign jurisdiction. The US supreme court is deciding whether gay marriages are legal or not under US constitution. If gay marriage is legal in the US and a gay couple come to live in Kenya, the Kenya law will be forced to recognize that marriage.

In a nutshell, no need of going through three ceremonies of marriage if you can avoid it i.e. customary marriage, then church/ Victorian, then civil marriage.

Note that even in church, the pastor just officiates the ceremony and the certificate is obtained from the AG's office.

You can skip all these processes, go to the AG's office, pick a date (21 days away or more), pin a notice on the notice board at Sheria house or the DC's office, turn up with 2 witnesses on the appointed date, exchange your rings and vows. Total cost Approx KShs 2,000 for the documentations... Then fly-off for the honey moon.


lucky are you if your "wife to be" will buy into this very simple yet effective marriage.





In all transactions avoid brokers aka Church/pastor
Foz00
#16 Posted : Friday, March 29, 2013 5:35:57 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/13/2011
Posts: 297
Location: Nairobi
sparkly wrote:
Marriages recognized in Kenya:

1. Statutory Marriages - African Christian Marriage (Church), Civil (AG and his officers in the Districts), Hindu (temple), Islamic (Kadhi). For these marriages you get a certificate from the state law office.

2. Customary - Ruracio, Ngurario etc etc. Once you go through all those rites, you are married. No need for papers. The wazees will come and give evidence if there is a dispute.

3. Common law marriage/ Presumption of Marriage/ marriage by reputation/ Marriage by cohabitation - You live together as man and wife and you look like a couple to the community. You can't turn around and say you were not married,unless you had entered into an agreement stating that it is only a convenience arrangement.

4. A marriage recognized by a foreign jurisdiction. The US supreme court is deciding whether gay marriages are legal or not under US constitution. If gay marriage is legal in the US and a gay couple come to live in Kenya, the Kenya law will be forced to recognize that marriage.

In a nutshell, no need of going through three ceremonies of marriage if you can avoid it i.e. customary marriage, then church/ Victorian, then civil marriage.

Note that even in church, the pastor just officiates the ceremony and the certificate is obtained from the AG's office.

You can skip all these processes, go to the AG's office, pick a date (21 days away or more), pin a notice on the notice board at Sheria house or the DC's office, turn up with 2 witnesses on the appointed date, exchange your rings and vows. Total cost Approx KShs 2,000 for the documentations... Then fly-off for the honey moon.


lucky are you if your "wife to be" will buy into this very simple yet effective marriage.





In all transactions avoid brokers aka Church/pastor
poundfoolish
#17 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 7:26:59 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
Most guys i know demand their cockpit licences after the customary bit ends..
their ladies on the other hand still insist on the fairy tale day to consumate matters. thats keeping a plane in the hangar for several more months..
xyzee
#18 Posted : Saturday, March 30, 2013 4:39:29 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/9/2009
Posts: 1,262
poundfoolish wrote:
Most guys i know demand their cockpit licences after the customary bit ends..
their ladies on the other hand still insist on the fairy tale day to consumate matters. thats keeping a plane in the hangar for several more months..


What happens if you realize after the D Day that the airport is not as per your specifications.

Especially with the "Goods once sold shall never be accepted" clause.
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