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On knowledge, wisdom, speech, and action.
tycho
#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 01, 2013 11:09:09 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Quicksand, let me modify my poetry to your preference.

1. All scientific laws are statements about relations and actions of variables derived out of repeated observations under specified conditions.

The number of observations must be more than one.

To come with a statement out of many observations, one must use an average.

Therefore, scientific laws must be statistical averages, even when all observations are similar and equal.

2. Symbols always point to a signified.
Significance cannot be random.
Therefore symbols cannot be.
random.

Randomness implies a system of
occurrence or choice of predefined
elements that is broadly defined.

The randomness of a
word implies its picking or choice,
not meaning.

Therefore a random word has
specific meaning.

3. All symbols are interpreted in the
mind.
All mental activity involves higher
brain functions like thinking, and
recalling.

Therefore all words involve higher
brain functioning and cannot be
mere cogs.

4. An argument calls for a defense.
Some poems are arguments.
Therefore some poems can be
defended.

5. Distrust causes defensiveness.
Defensiveness inhibits
conversation and clouds judgement.

@quicksand doesn't trust tycho.
Therefore @quicksand is defensive
and his contribution to the
conversation is impaired.

6. Distrust implies fear and inability
to manage relations.

All humans that have distrust are
insecure.

Quicksand doesn't trust Tycho.

Therefore quicksand is insecure.

7. The middle class trusts neither the
higher nor the lower classes.

Those who are insecure must
have inferiority complex.

Therefore the middle class has
inferiority complex.


i




quicksand
#22 Posted : Wednesday, January 02, 2013 12:18:09 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Thanks for indulging me @tycho. You have two facets it appears, writing-wise that is, you can be very clear when you want to, also very obtuse, as the straight post above proves. I get what you are putting across, I have objections here and there.
Never said I didnt trust you. I also never said I trusted you. I said I thought you were having a laugh, significant difference, like a satirist you might say. That is to be skeptical.
To say I trust or don't trust you is heavy handed and presumptous on your part. The adjective 'trust' or 'distrust' is too heavy for the near-anonymous interactions we carry out on the web. You cannot take such a liberty with someone you do not know personally. To proceed from this point on to calling me insecure is egregious. ...why, because I took a shot at your poetry? Does anyone who criticises your writing or indeed you become insecure? Have you noticed I generally leave your normal political commentary (the non poetic ones) alone? You were doing fine until you set upon this blurry trust/insecurity path.
Quote:
All humans that have distrust are
insecure

So @tycho, are you free from all distrust, or any kind of distrust? Because no normal human is completely free from some form of distrust, no matter how small. To claim otherwise is to imply perfection on your part. Or may I ask how much mistrust is considered enough to cross the threshold into the insecure? Who decides this threshold? You? You judged me, its a fair question.
How about security agents, like NSIS, they tend to distrust a lot of things and a lot of people, are they insecure too? If you are not claiming perfection, wouldn't that put you in that huge bin of distrustful, insecure people you mentioned up there? So I am baffled, what or who gives you the right to say I am insecure?
Sweeping statements like these are careless; for instance #7 here.

Quote:
7. The middle class trusts neither the
higher nor the lower classes.

Those who are insecure must
have inferiority complex.

Therefore the middle class has
inferiority complex.

..you are pointing at an entire class of people and passing judgment on them. when people pass judgment on others, they are saying they are not encumbered with the same short comings as those they judge. You took one brush, dipped it in a mud called insecurity and inferiority complex and blanketly painted the middle class. No variance or deviation can exist, right? you have perfect knowledge. Wow, talk of impertinence.
Even claiming this was made as social commentary cant save it from the eddies of arrogance which are steering it towards the rocks; It is acceptable to point out and mock human folly, but it is another thing to consign people as beleaguered by it cause they belong to a certain economic station. So, only the middle class is saddled with this distrust problem right? The higher class trust their own, trust the middle and the lower as well, and the lower do the same for the middle and higher classes? Much love from up and below then, with only the middle being the suspicious and pouty black sheep, that is what you would have us believe? The higher classes cannot be insecure? How about the lower classes? All of the higher classes or just some? As a matter of fact, who are these people who cannot and are not insecure and how did they get that way?

Can insecurity be attributed to fear, or actually be a form of it? Cause earlier you made these mind bending statements
Quote:

'Fear itself' is the essence of being. It is the bedrock, the prime mover unmoved.

then this. .

Quote:
Fear, is the force of uncertainty; and uncertainty can never be done away with, therefore fear cannot be moved.

Therefore fear is the prime mover unmoved.

Do these two statements portend good or bad things? Also, are you exempt from them? I am freshly confused. ..

My parting words, temper your generalizations, or avoid them altogether; Averages or prevalent behaviour may tend towards the majority, but they are not absolutes, not 100%.
tycho
#23 Posted : Wednesday, January 02, 2013 7:55:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@quicksand, I am very delighted that you have taken a shot at my poetry, and this is not the reason for using such words as 'distrustful' or 'insecure' on you.

An important question that I must before going any further, is that of whether I am distrustful.

No. I am not distrustful. Though, paradoxically, I am inside the bin of the distrustful and insecure.

I do not refer to the middle class in economic terms. Middle class to me is a world view. And yes, this world view isn't 100% of what my criticism says it is.

Again the middle class isn't the black sheep of distrust. The other classes are also in the bin.

About NSIS, I will answer by asking; why is the sovereign state expected to have a standing army?

You say you are freshly confused by my idea of fear being the prime mover unmoved. I am going to make myself clear soon.

But otherwise, so far, so good.
quicksand
#24 Posted : Wednesday, January 02, 2013 10:28:40 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 2,061
Location: Nairobi
Then you have not expressed exhaustively what your understanding of 'middle class' is. Common knowledge defines middle class along the lines of..
Quote:
the middle class is the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socio-economically between the working class and upper class. The common measures of what constitutes middle class vary significantly among cultures
In that same boat I might also add 'mistrust' and 'insecure' as well ..I seem to have a different understanding than yours.
Remember, you modified the post to my preference, so I assumed that you wrote in straight prose, leaving not much room for multiple or layered interpretation. I interpreted the words pretty much as any standard English dictionary would have me interpret them. Against this background, you can see my confusion. But I await your explanation.
Motomoto
#25 Posted : Wednesday, January 02, 2013 1:26:52 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/18/2010
Posts: 503
Location: Kenya
Quite deep
ChessMaster
#26 Posted : Friday, January 25, 2013 7:33:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Informational power of wazua?Action driven clicks fueled by intent to influence decision making in the lives of Wazuans.People want to make a difference when they want to forget they already are.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
ChessMaster
#27 Posted : Friday, February 01, 2013 9:47:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
We are constantly receiving information.Thus we are constantly seeking meaning from that information. We have fear because we don't understand what all that information means while on the other hand the information is a constant reminder to us asking us to find meaning.But we need information,it helps us make better informed decisions. So we will always seek sources of information that are as accurate and personalized as possible.

We live in a world where information is being generated and shared faster than people can sort,process and utilize.So there is a need to assist people filter information that is relevant to their needs because information derives importance in context otherwise its irrelevant. Information serves a purpose when put to use. There are two things people will always seek information on: 1. How to reduce losses from their lives and 2. How to increase gains.

Mark Zuckerberg - "A squirrel dying in front of your house may be more relevant to your interests right now than people dying in Africa."

Uncertainty is certain.Let go
ChessMaster
#28 Posted : Saturday, February 02, 2013 11:56:11 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Information,relativity and truth.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
ChessMaster
#29 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:33:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.

Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#30 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 5:57:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?
ChessMaster
#31 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:53:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?


Expound
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
2012
#32 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:00:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Knowledge is nothing but manipulating the uncertain, that is why it is power, for ends of our desires and imagination.

Wisdom is trying to nourish and preserve and respect the ways of nature.

Speech, is the expression of power; casting a spell on others and things to conform to the desire of our imaginations.

Action, is a step of faith, to consummate our power.

But deep inside, there's coldness, and darkness, hunger, savagery and loneliness gnawing.

Beauty is the promise of healing. The flower, the smile, the melody, the saviour, the other.

Perfection is surrender, deep silence, peace and rest. Being nature itself.



I think you looked at the negative aspect of all. So what if you looked at it innocently and without reading mischief?

Look at it from Mahatma Ghandi 's view as he had all these attributes.

e.g. Knowledge could be just simply be knowledge that makes it easier for you to accomplish tasks and not gullible.

I'm one of those people who still believes in the goodness in humanity.


BBI will solve it
:)
tycho
#33 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:00:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
2012 wrote:
tycho wrote:
Knowledge is nothing but manipulating the uncertain, that is why it is power, for ends of our desires and imagination.

Wisdom is trying to nourish and preserve and respect the ways of nature.

Speech, is the expression of power; casting a spell on others and things to conform to the desire of our imaginations.

Action, is a step of faith, to consummate our power.

But deep inside, there's coldness, and darkness, hunger, savagery and loneliness gnawing.

Beauty is the promise of healing. The flower, the smile, the melody, the saviour, the other.

Perfection is surrender, deep silence, peace and rest. Being nature itself.



I think you looked at the negative aspect of all. So what if you looked at it innocently and without reading mischief?

Look at it from Mahatma Ghandi 's view as he had all these attributes.

e.g. Knowledge could be just simply be knowledge that makes it easier for you to accomplish tasks and not gullible.

I'm one of those people who still believes in the goodness in humanity.



The goodness in humanity is a result of Man and God are in a mutual and pleasing relationship.

Apart from that, everything is 'negative'.
tycho
#34 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:15:43 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?


Expound


Can a symbol have absolute meaning only? If that were so, no one would speak.
ChessMaster
#35 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:29:27 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?


Expound


Can a symbol have absolute meaning only? If that were so, no one would speak.


Symbols are representations and references.If we knew the absolute nature of things,we would still communicate in reference to them.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#36 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:34:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?


Expound


Can a symbol have absolute meaning only? If that were so, no one would speak.


Symbols are representations and references.If we knew the absolute nature of things,we would still communicate in reference to them.


Why would people need to communicate under certainty?
ChessMaster
#37 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:44:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
tycho wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Truth is absolute,for if truth is relative even that very argument is relative and becomes void.Relativity is subjective and occurs in context.So that implies truth stands firm beyond subjectivity and context.

Subjectivity is defined by perception and perception by experience,exposure and bias.Perception works on information and information holds no bias.

Knowledge is awareness of truth.Wisdom is acting on truth.Thus wise acts are determined by how one utilizes truth in context. Context is determined by information.Thus to act wisely,one has to get the right information to properly determine the context and then act in accordance to truth.

So how does one determine truth?I do not know.But what I know is one must be first willing to accept that their perception of things is flawed or incomplete.Another question is,how do we determine truth when we experience it relatively?How do you describe the outside of the box when you are trapped in it?How does one explain colour to a blind man or music to the deaf?Don't take me wrongly,my wish was not to be insensitive.



If truth is absolute only, how is communication possible?


Expound


Can a symbol have absolute meaning only? If that were so, no one would speak.


Symbols are representations and references.If we knew the absolute nature of things,we would still communicate in reference to them.


Why would people need to communicate under certainty?


There would be no need but that's impossible in our existence.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#38 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:08:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Therefore symbols imply uncertainty, and communication is the search for certainty.
ChessMaster
#39 Posted : Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:11:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Exactly
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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