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tribal question
Fundaah
#1 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:21:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
This is one question I will not answer in the coming census ...... will you?....We killed one another because of this question yet someone somewhere is eager to know the numbers in the tribes.....for what?...isn't being a kenyan enough?

Rules of the game here: Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good.... It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt.... Jeremiah 17:11 As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.' From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
DonBen
#2 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:43:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 144
ati we killed one another because of tribe? nada. stealing elections,like one kivuitu recently confessed,is the main reason we had all that violence.

If there wont be any post census discrimination or preferential treatment based on ethnicity,then it is okay to have the tribe question on the census questionnaire.

Any national census is not just about counting people but also involves a lot more statistical value.
Fundaah
#3 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:53:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Don...if you were not in the country during PEV.....youth would greet you in their own language .....if you dont answer ....you are slashed with a machete.....thats how we killed one another through the tribal question.......what do elections have to do with me being unable to answer your greeting in your language?

Rules of the game here: Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good.... It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt.... Jeremiah 17:11 As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.' From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
Magigi
#4 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:54:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...whether you answer that question or not will not change the fact that youn belong to a certain tribe. There are people who can not speak their mother tongues,born and bred in the city,yet they are the worst tribalists. I doubt whether Gideon Moi speaks his mother tongue. Yet.....
Shak
#5 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 8:11:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
If it's optional to answer the question then why bother asking? The result will be inaccurate information with no so called statistical value. They should've left it out all together

smile
harrier
#6 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:23:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/12/2008
Posts: 24
my worry is how secure are kenyans this nite. who will come first before the censure guys,a thief,hitmen,business competitor.

could have wished if this exercise would be carried during daytime by gok declaring a day off for everyone. to them this

but all in all stand up to be counted!

If you judge people,you have no time to learn.
jaribu
#7 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:32:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 441
The GK has flatly failed to explain fully why we need to know the number of people in a given tribe! Why for example do we need to know how many Kambas are scattred throughout the country? You can bet your last dime that the tribal maths will only end up being used for selfish political manipulation only.

We have so many subtribes within Kalenjin like Tugen,Nandi and Kipsigis. And we also have various groups within the Abaluhya like Maragoli,Bukusu and Wanga. But do you know why Arap Moi lumped them together but refused to have the Kikuyu,Meru and Embu united in similar manner although they share nearly the same culture and language? Well,it's all the tribal manipulation for political mileage.

So when the census guys come knocking,I will definitely sing them that Eric Wainaina song,mimi ni Mkenya diama!


bY aNy MeAns NecEsSaRy.....
obiero
#8 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:57:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 14,180
Location: nairobi
I only hope anyone campaigning for the tribal question is aged 35 and above. Anyone below this age is urged passionately by myself nd humanity at large to stop the tribal talk. We are the future. We shall overcome. PS UHURU 4 Prezo. 2012. God bles this our land and nation

KQ ABP 4.26
Pierce
#9 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:26:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/16/2009
Posts: 1,464
Why do a census! Registrar of Births,Deaths,Immigration.....what else do you need??.........go round the country physically counting people...he he he !



Does the U.S do it?
mukiha
#10 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:40:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
I am proud of my heritage......a Kikuyu [mu-gikuyu] of the Anjiru Clan... I know the names of my fore-fathers to seven generations backwards...

I will write my tribe in the form...and the tribe of my children....who by the way speak Kikuyu more fluently than English or Kiswahili despite living in Nairobi...

Tribalism is not about tribal pride,it is about tribal hatred....

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
jaribu
#11 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:49:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 441
@Mukiha.

Nice to hear you are one proud Mu-gikuyu. Good for you. But please note that we are all proud of our tribes and cultures. What we are refusing is to be manipulated by politicians during census for their own selfish ends! You have not answered my question though,why does the govt need to know someone's tribe during census??


bY aNy MeAns NecEsSaRy.....
mukiha
#12 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:50:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
By the way; even if we banned everything tribal,we would still find something else to hate each other for!! It is much easier for human beings to hate each other than to love one another.

So don't blame the PEV on tribes! It was driven by hatred...tribe was just an excuse for the hatred...

Politicians find it easier to gain support by asking their followers to hate the opponents...remove tribe and they will find a new reason to hate.

Remember what I wrote here a few months ago: 'Imagine the tragedy of the world losing 40-odd languages and cultures?'

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
mukiha
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:57:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@jaribu,for statistical evidence of cultural heritage....

By the way,one our major tourist attraction is our rich diversity of cultures....

Tribal statistics will also help understand people's migratory habits...it is believed that Kikuyus migrate very easily and settle permanently in their new 'home lands',answering the tribe question will verify or contradict this notion...and also establish which other tribe has this characteristic

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
Spend.thrift
#14 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:04:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
@ Mukiha,

I like the pride you take in your cultural heritage. It is all good.

But what is the essence of tallying the numbers?

What economic or planning rationale does tribe fulfil?

What is the contextual statistical value in tribe?

Do the merits of publishing statistics of tribe outweigh the demerits?

Lets suppose I live in Thika town and I'm maasai,my wife is luo and my son's wife is kikuyu. How would the tribe influence planning? And by the way,have the results of the last two census ever been useful apart from being used by students,foreign agencies e.t.c -read to produce more paperwork? In my opinion,the last two have been monkey business. This one looks headed that way too...

I have tried to think around but I can not get a good reason why that question should be fronted. Mukiha nisaidie kama unawesamek.
Brewer
#15 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:20:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 238
It may help to stop using the word tribe,for it has its negative connotations and instead use the word éthnic community.

Is census only about economic planning? Need it be useful to us for political planning unless we allow it during the individual action of voting? Kwa debe uko peke yako bwana,no census guy will be with you there!

The census should capture social and cultural diversity. I imagine not just the disappearance of 40 or so languages and culture as mukiha notes but the inadequacy of a statistician saying ''Kenya is a nation of Kenyans of diverse cultural and social groups'' without quantifying this diversity. We have become a country of sissies who imagine problems will be solved by avoiding them.
mukiha
#16 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:20:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
@spendthrift;

I answered your question in the immediate previous post.

But on a different level,I think this whole census business is a complete wast of time and effort...and money!!

No one needs to know the exact number of people in a country to make plans for it! An estimate to the nearest million will do...and you don't need a census for that.

After all,Steadman gets very accurate opinion polls from samples of only 1,500 people.

KNBS (what a mouthful,compared to the former CBS) only needs to sample the population and study the demographics of the sample...

Behind the gardens...Behind the wall...Under the tree (Including: Red...Dark Blue...Yellow)
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
jaribu
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:21:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/23/2007
Posts: 441
Mukiha,

It's important to learn from history. Deep in your heart you very well know tribal arithmetics have been used and abused by ethnic chieftains for political purposes! That has led to near genocide and ethnic cleansing and never any cultural value. How will knowing 'migratory patterns' of the Luo help the govt in it's planning for development purposes? By refusing to state our tribes on a piece of paper,we are just but dealing a great blow to tribalist politicians who are up to no good. The census is welcome but please note I'm one very proud Kenyan!


bY aNy MeAns NecEsSaRy.....
Kamaa
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:58:00 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/6/2007
Posts: 1,177
Location: Nairobi - Kenya
@ all

this is my humble opinion...

every country needs tribal statistics...

the only problem with kenyan case... we are always political...

and viewing things from a very negative angle..

tribal statistics are vital for archives...

like we always read that this and that tribes originated from this and that place....

i mean they help us know the social division of people and their cultural heritages and

no one can dispute that...

failing to answer the tribal question in the forthcoming census does not help you at

all and it won't help heal our tribal wounds... as mukiha said both politicians and

ourselves will always invent another reason of hating...

just like most of us do it at SK....

you've heard me..
When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend
simonkabz
#19 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:19:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
I've got no problem with the ethnicity question. By not answering,of what benefit will it be to u n the country? I think the statistics r especially helpful to the minority communities who r nowadays taken care of in employment circles. I guess kenyans have thawed into extreme pessimists.

The only reason why some people are still alive is coz its illegal to shoot them!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
kanda
#20 Posted : Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:32:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/10/2008
Posts: 68
census data is anonymized i assume?

it wouldnt matter anyway since a machette yielding youth would not care what your answer to the census was.....just if you can answer the greeting. you cannot run away from your heritage....not that it is a desirable thing...actually it is detestable!

najivunia kuwa mkenya ndio lakini i have roots which i will not shy away from because of rumors. 'mkenya' is not a cultural concept yet but a political (patriotic) one. perhaps one day we will reach the stage where being kenyan becomes a cultural identity...how i long for that day!

hii tabia ya wakenya ya ku-politisize each and evry issue is getting out of hand...at this rate,how can we hope to progress into the 21st century?!!
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