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NIC Bank 2012 fy results
Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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sparkly wrote:mibbz wrote:asked a question in the hfck thread and nobody replied.what does deferred tax mean? Two concepts: Current tax and Deferred tax. Current tax - is the tax payable (or refund due)to KRA in that year, based on tax laws. Tax laws determine profit differently from accounting principles. Consider a bond held for trading at 100. Value of bond goes up to 110 and HF books a profit of 10. However, Tax of 3 (30%) is only paid if the bond is actually sold. So no current tax. Deferred tax - tax payable or recoverable in future. In the example above HF has an asset of 110 in balance sheet. They know if the sell it they will pay tax on the 10 profit they already booked. So they will record the tax they are likely to pay once they sell the asset as deferred tax liability in their balance sheet. When they actually sell the bond, they will move the tax of 3 from balance sheet to profit and loss. Thats how the P&L is affected. Note: A simplified example. Thanks @sparkly So, would i be right if i say its tax payable in the future as a result of past transactions BUT which must be paid at some point. Then its a convenient way of making shareholders happy when things are tough. Perhaps i can draw an analogy with deferral that we are accustomed to (the shuttle diplomacy watermelon was pursuing). History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,129 Location: Nairobi
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@BGL - Well, a DTA is 'tax asset' that can be used to offset paying taxes [in cash]... Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/10/2010 Posts: 1,001 Location: River Road
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mwekez@ji wrote:EPS - KES 6.03 NBV - KES 27.55
at the current share price of KES 45.50
P/E - 7.55x P/B - 1.65x
There is some headroom for the share price Good set of results even though the capital gains so far look tempting I keep holding see what they will do with the cash from the rights issue
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/18/2011 Posts: 448
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BGL wrote:sparkly wrote:mibbz wrote:asked a question in the hfck thread and nobody replied.what does deferred tax mean? Two concepts: Current tax and Deferred tax. Current tax - is the tax payable (or refund due)to KRA in that year, based on tax laws. Tax laws determine profit differently from accounting principles. Consider a bond held for trading at 100. Value of bond goes up to 110 and HF books a profit of 10. However, Tax of 3 (30%) is only paid if the bond is actually sold. So no current tax. Deferred tax - tax payable or recoverable in future. In the example above HF has an asset of 110 in balance sheet. They know if the sell it they will pay tax on the 10 profit they already booked. So they will record the tax they are likely to pay once they sell the asset as deferred tax liability in their balance sheet. When they actually sell the bond, they will move the tax of 3 from balance sheet to profit and loss. Thats how the P&L is affected. Note: A simplified example. Thanks @sparkly So, would i be right if i say its tax payable in the future as a result of past transactions BUT which must be paid at some point. Then its a convenient way of making shareholders happy when things are tough. Perhaps i can draw an analogy with deferral that we are accustomed to (the shuttle diplomacy watermelon was pursuing). @sparly thanks a lot,at least i understand it now.isn't it possible to manipulate books in accounting to suit a specific need,i find this field very dynamic and the smarter accountants can hide potential bombshells in many places....
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/18/2011 Posts: 448
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ION why are 3 of the top 5 stocks in the red today banks? kwani HFCK and NIC have spooked the market that much?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/2/2011 Posts: 4,818 Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
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download the FY2012 report here Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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These are very stable earnings & I suppose when the Rights capital is deployed it should be even better, but that has lead time atleast 1 year?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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Another rights issue coming
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/31/2011 Posts: 5,121
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the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate New CBK prudetial guidelines effective 1 January 2013. Core capital/RWA--->10.5% vs NIC Bank's 15.6% Total capital/RWA--->14.5% vs NIC Banks 16.4% Very little head room to expand balance sheet.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/31/2011 Posts: 5,121
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the deal wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate New CBK prudetial guidelines effective 1 January 2013. Core capital/RWA--->10.5% vs NIC Bank's 15.6% Total capital/RWA--->14.5% vs NIC Banks 16.4% Very little head room to expand balance sheet. its, Core capital/RWA---> 8% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Total capital/RWA---> 12% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Banks have been given 24 months to meet the 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer (either via retained earnings or other capital raising method). What is more, the NIC's core capital/RWA ratio already has enough headroom. Total capital/RWA has some room and can be improved further via Tier I or via Tier II capital (e.g debt).
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,129 Location: Nairobi
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mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate New CBK prudetial guidelines effective 1 January 2013. Core capital/RWA--->10.5% vs NIC Bank's 15.6% Total capital/RWA--->14.5% vs NIC Banks 16.4% Very little head room to expand balance sheet. its, Core capital/RWA---> 8% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Total capital/RWA---> 12% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Banks have been given 24 months to meet the 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer (either via retained earnings or other capital raising method). What is more, the NIC's core capital/RWA ratio already has enough headroom. Total capital/RWA has some room and can be improved further via Tier I or via Tier II capital (e.g debt). Which means retained profits will add to the Core Capital over the next 2 years. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/25/2009 Posts: 4,534 Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
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VituVingiSana wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate New CBK prudetial guidelines effective 1 January 2013. Core capital/RWA--->10.5% vs NIC Bank's 15.6% Total capital/RWA--->14.5% vs NIC Banks 16.4% Very little head room to expand balance sheet. its, Core capital/RWA---> 8% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Total capital/RWA---> 12% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Banks have been given 24 months to meet the 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer (either via retained earnings or other capital raising method). What is more, the NIC's core capital/RWA ratio already has enough headroom. Total capital/RWA has some room and can be improved further via Tier I or via Tier II capital (e.g debt). Which means retained profits will add to the Core Capital over the next 2 years. It depends at what rate they grow their Total Risk Weighted assets (TRWA), since they don't do mortgages to have a weighting of 0.5 then TRWA could grow by double digits, overall carting a huge chunk of PAT into the retained earnings category affects the dividend payout ratio, so a rights issue is more appropriate.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/31/2011 Posts: 5,121
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the deal wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:mwekez@ji wrote:the deal wrote:Another rights issue coming
Not soon. If you think contrary, substantiate New CBK prudetial guidelines effective 1 January 2013. Core capital/RWA--->10.5% vs NIC Bank's 15.6% Total capital/RWA--->14.5% vs NIC Banks 16.4% Very little head room to expand balance sheet. its, Core capital/RWA---> 8% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Total capital/RWA---> 12% plus 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer Banks have been given 24 months to meet the 2.5% Capital Conservation Buffer (either via retained earnings or other capital raising method). What is more, the NIC's core capital/RWA ratio already has enough headroom. Total capital/RWA has some room and can be improved further via Tier I or via Tier II capital (e.g debt). Which means retained profits will add to the Core Capital over the next 2 years. It depends at what rate they grow their Total Risk Weighted assets (TRWA), since they don't do mortgages to have a weighting of 0.5 then TRWA could grow by double digits, overall carting a huge chunk of PAT into the retained earnings category affects the dividend payout ratio, so a rights issue is more appropriate. Investors in NIC are ok with high retention ratio. They are after value & growth in the company and consequently stock capital gains
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/23/2009 Posts: 8,083 Location: Enk are Nyirobi
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mibbz wrote:BGL wrote:sparkly wrote:mibbz wrote:asked a question in the hfck thread and nobody replied.what does deferred tax mean? Two concepts: Current tax and Deferred tax. Current tax - is the tax payable (or refund due)to KRA in that year, based on tax laws. Tax laws determine profit differently from accounting principles. Consider a bond held for trading at 100. Value of bond goes up to 110 and HF books a profit of 10. However, Tax of 3 (30%) is only paid if the bond is actually sold. So no current tax. Deferred tax - tax payable or recoverable in future. In the example above HF has an asset of 110 in balance sheet. They know if the sell it they will pay tax on the 10 profit they already booked. So they will record the tax they are likely to pay once they sell the asset as deferred tax liability in their balance sheet. When they actually sell the bond, they will move the tax of 3 from balance sheet to profit and loss. Thats how the P&L is affected. Note: A simplified example. Thanks @sparkly So, would i be right if i say its tax payable in the future as a result of past transactions BUT which must be paid at some point. Then its a convenient way of making shareholders happy when things are tough. Perhaps i can draw an analogy with deferral that we are accustomed to (the shuttle diplomacy watermelon was pursuing). @sparly thanks a lot,at least i understand it now.isn't it possible to manipulate books in accounting to suit a specific need,i find this field very dynamic and the smarter accountants can hide potential bombshells in many places.... True, deferred tax is highly subjective when dealing with complex issues like business reorganisations, revaluations of investments and tax losses carried forward. I see creative accounting by KPMG (belief they are the auditors). KBS has been active for past 2-3 years. Why recognise tne asset now, and incidentally increase the PAT. Thats why Buffet looks at the cash return. Life is short. Live passionately.
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