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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:digitek1 wrote:nobility implies that there are others who are serfs, nobility is is for the few. We cant all be kings.Even in Gods kingdom there is hierarchy.
I never claimed to be a mangod, you did. God is ultimately the ulitimate. we can be like him ..its an evolutionary process..but we cannnot be him at the same time and be man. His spirit can dwell in us as but we cannot be man and God at the same time . it has been tried many times since babel
Digitek, are you implying that words have fixed meaning? Or that ideas about heaven don't evolve? That is, humans do not change their understanding, even of a paragraph in a book? You seem to operate from such a mind! And then I am surprised that all of a sudden that Man and God cannot be in identity now. First, this is contrary to most Scripture, except perhaps of religious atheism! So, if you are relying on tradition for your argument, which is it? Ask yourself, if there's going to be a hierarchy in heaven, does it mean that there's also punishment in heaven? Will there be envy? Your ideas on hierarchy imply such a belief! Otherwise if the hierarchy exists without comparing oneself to the other, then there's no hierarchy! So, what happened in Babel? And what is the ultimate message of theistic belief? while I sort of understand most of your views our point of departure is man=God. for me God>>>man. I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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digitek1 wrote:tycho wrote:digitek1 wrote:nobility implies that there are others who are serfs, nobility is is for the few. We cant all be kings.Even in Gods kingdom there is hierarchy.
I never claimed to be a mangod, you did. God is ultimately the ulitimate. we can be like him ..its an evolutionary process..but we cannnot be him at the same time and be man. His spirit can dwell in us as but we cannot be man and God at the same time . it has been tried many times since babel
Digitek, are you implying that words have fixed meaning? Or that ideas about heaven don't evolve? That is, humans do not change their understanding, even of a paragraph in a book? You seem to operate from such a mind! And then I am surprised that all of a sudden that Man and God cannot be in identity now. First, this is contrary to most Scripture, except perhaps of religious atheism! So, if you are relying on tradition for your argument, which is it? Ask yourself, if there's going to be a hierarchy in heaven, does it mean that there's also punishment in heaven? Will there be envy? Your ideas on hierarchy imply such a belief! Otherwise if the hierarchy exists without comparing oneself to the other, then there's no hierarchy! So, what happened in Babel? And what is the ultimate message of theistic belief? while I sort of understand most of your views our point of departure is man=God. for me God>>>man. It's about being God-like not being God. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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mangod-let my will be done Godlike man aka immanuel-let your will be done I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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Am I missing something.God is good.If you don't wish to be like God who do you want to be like? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Digitek, the statements God = Man, and God > Man, are actually two 'eigenstates' of being through spacetime.
And, is a. result of Man and God being at disparity because of unconsciesness of God.
But because God is ultimate being, and Creator of all things; everything is attracted to Him. Even Man is attracted to Him.
That is when God > Man reigns in Man's consciousness.
But because of the laws of attraction, and Self discovery (grace), Man comes to full realization of his Self, and reigns with ultimate being in perfect harmony.
If, God = Man, were not true in spacetime, there'd be 'nothingness'.
That is, God > Man, would never be. There'd 'be' no consciousness.
This is why Man is the perceptual center of the Universe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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digitek1 wrote:mangod-let my will be done
Godlike man aka immanuel-let your will be done Makes me think of the formation of the ego, and its structure. It is essential.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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tycho wrote:@Digitek, the statements God = Man, and God > Man, are actually two 'eigenstates' of being through spacetime.
And, is a. result of Man and God being at disparity because of unconsciesness of God.
But because God is ultimate being, and Creator of all things; everything is attracted to Him. Even Man is attracted to Him.
That is when God > Man reigns in Man's consciousness.
But because of the laws of attraction, and Self discovery (grace), Man comes to full realization of his Self, and reigns with ultimate being in perfect harmony.
If, God = Man, were not true in spacetime, there'd be 'nothingness'.
That is, God > Man, would never be. There'd 'be' no consciousness.
This is why Man is the perceptual center of the Universe. HELP A BROTHER OUT(ME)- Please explain in layman's language.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Josiah, for something to be, it must have boundary conditions. Like a cup, occupies a portion of spacetime.
Now God > Man, and God = Man, are the two limits of 'human being'.
The limits themselves are limited to equilibrium conditions.
That is, if there existed only one limit, there'd be 'no being'.
And neither would Man > God, obey equilibrium conditions. Why? It would mean God doesn't exist. And there'd be 'no being'.
Equilibrium, being, can only occur when the upper limit is, God = Man.
And this is why Man is the center of the universe.
And these are the boundaries of the universe.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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tycho wrote:@Josiah, for something to be, it must have boundary conditions. Like a cup, occupies a portion of spacetime.
Now God > Man, and God = Man, are the two limits of 'human being'.
The limits themselves are limited to equilibrium conditions.
That is, if there existed only one limit, there'd be 'no being'.
And neither would Man > God, obey equilibrium conditions. Why? It would mean God doesn't exist. And there'd be 'no being'.
Equilibrium, being, can only occur when the upper limit is, God = Man.
And this is why Man is the center of the universe.
And these are the boundaries of the universe. I have never thought of it like that.That's a beautiful equation. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Josiah, for something to be, it must have boundary conditions. Like a cup, occupies a portion of spacetime.
Now God > Man, and God = Man, are the two limits of 'human being'.
The limits themselves are limited to equilibrium conditions.
That is, if there existed only one limit, there'd be 'no being'.
And neither would Man > God, obey equilibrium conditions. Why? It would mean God doesn't exist. And there'd be 'no being'.
Equilibrium, being, can only occur when the upper limit is, God = Man.
And this is why Man is the center of the universe.
And these are the boundaries of the universe. Few queries What is this universe, is it also = or > god. This also applies to the law of attraction where we are told- to trust the universe Are there other beings in between man and God and what is their status given now that man=god Where do aliens lie in the man=god continuum As was asked before what lies beyond the universe ie the boundaries of the cup I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Digitek, let us construct answers to your questions using the following premises:
1. The universe is a result of human perception. For it is only through perception that existence of anything.
2. God is the ultimate being and Creator of all things
3. Human being is bounded by the limits God > Man, and God = Man.
So, what is the universe? It is the set of perceptions experienced within the limits of human being, meaning also, self consciousness at either limits.
What lies beyond the limits?
When God > Man, the beyond of the limits cannot be perceived.
But when Man = God, then the only thing beyond is Self expansion.
Beyond the limit lies the act of creation.
So all perceived forms are subject to human being.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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ChessMaster wrote:We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work. Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/3/2007 Posts: 1,634
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@Tycho, Digitex, Chesmaster et al: I have avoided commenting on this 'man-god' debate because, for a time, it seemed you were doing your damnedest to piss off the Christian right (done that, got the T-sh...er, curses). I am surprised no one has risen to the bait yet. Maybe they figured you for hell-bound anyway, so why interfere? So here is my question: if you believe in the man-god configuration, why is it so hard to believe that time and space are illusory creations of the same entity? Does it bother you that the same 'man-god,' you speak of would be responsible for creating the entire Universe, with all the wonders it holds? Why? Or is 'man-god' more man than god? "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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@Wakanyugi, the statement (Man = God) > God, cannot be true for obvious reasons.
For there to be truth, there must be falsehood. Or, if there are illusions, then there must be reality.
Otherwise, the words would neither exist, nor have meaning.
So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.
But such a distinction is only possible via perception.
And if some perceptions are real, and perception occurs in spacetime, then there must be instances where spacetime is real.
Otherwise, then you couldn't be able to prove illusion, or even reality.
There'd be no word, and no existence of 'singularity' or 'observer'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Or alternatively, we can argue in the following way;
1. All proof is meant to show existence or inexistence.
2. There are 3 statements under consideration:
a. Illusion is real and existent.
b. Illusion is an illusion and,
c. Reality is an illusion.
Both b and c are not amenable to proof.
Therefore only statement 'a' can be proven and is admissible to science and philosophy, and even religion.
Finally, a proof must be perceived as true or real.
Therefore some perceptions are real.
This implies that illusions cannot be accounted for by perception alone. But is a result of multiple 'eigenstates' being superimposed.
For example, a mirage is accounted for, by refraction and reflection, while a real object, by reflection.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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Wakanyugi wrote:@Tycho, Digitex, Chesmaster et al:
I have avoided commenting on this 'man-god' debate because, for a time, it seemed you were doing your damnedest to piss off the Christian right (done that, got the T-sh...er, curses).
I am surprised no one has risen to the bait yet. Maybe they figured you for hell-bound anyway, so why interfere?
So here is my question: if you believe in the man-god configuration, why is it so hard to believe that time and space are illusory creations of the same entity?
Does it bother you that the same 'man-god,' you speak of would be responsible for creating the entire Universe, with all the wonders it holds?
Why?
Or is 'man-god' more man than god? lOL what is your definition of the christian right. @tycho is not headed to hell as you speculate though he might have his 'damascus' moment You theory of spacetime cannot be answered for now as it alludes to the theory of everything which if you unravel will get you a nobel I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Digitek, let us construct answers to your questions using the following premises:
1. The universe is a result of human perception. For it is only through perception that existence of anything.
2. God is the ultimate being and Creator of all things
3. Human being is bounded by the limits God > Man, and God = Man.
So, what is the universe? It is the set of perceptions experienced within the limits of human being, meaning also, self consciousness at either limits.
What lies beyond the limits?
When God > Man, the beyond of the limits cannot be perceived.
But when Man = God, then the only thing beyond is Self expansion.
Beyond the limit lies the act of creation.
So all perceived forms are subject to human being. Perception is highly illusory. For example our eyes only see the visible range, our ears only within a certain frequency,same applies to the nose and all other senses. Even the human mind is limited by this perception. A while back we thought the world was flat, So there is much more outthere than the mind can perceive. Hence objective reality check out youtube video on big bang to now in 24 hours and human beings as a species came to existence in the last 20 or so minutes.Before them there was objective reality Man may order his reality( subjective hence illusory) but the objective reality(God) still remains(alpha and omega). He exists in the nothingness beyond the boundaries of the cup and existed before the big bang. (has been , is and will forever be) I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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tycho wrote:@Wakanyugi, the statement (Man = God) > God, cannot be true for obvious reasons.
For there to be truth, there must be falsehood. Or, if there are illusions, then there must be reality.
Otherwise, the words would neither exist, nor have meaning.
So not unless you are saying illusion = reality, which doesn't make sense; you must be saying that the two are in fact, distinct.
But such a distinction is only possible via perception.
And if some perceptions are real, and perception occurs in spacetime, then there must be instances where spacetime is real.
Otherwise, then you couldn't be able to prove illusion, or even reality.
There'd be no word, and no existence of 'singularity' or 'observer'. We must also distinguish what is God here. There are three levels (trinity). God immanent in man -which is what i now believe is what you mean by man=god, God the life force- that organises everything , present in every blade of grass or pebble on the beach and God the absolute (father, from whom every thing proceeds) I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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tycho wrote:ChessMaster wrote:We all agree.The universe is everything,all inclusive.Then what lies beyond is nothing. We can now begin to construct ideal algorithms for Scientific and Religious work. Answers to questions posed can then be deduced from these algorithms. What questions do you want us to ponder on? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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