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'Brave new world' - conversation on postmodern cosmology.
tycho
#71 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:04:50 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Much Know, I am conversant with the references you have given. And even, I have great regard for the people you have mentioned, what your argument really is.

You say Science can connect Man to God, from an apparatus in some Lab. Where there's 'Conventional' science.

Then in the same breath you imply that religion is about God.

But then you say religion and science are at variance. Is that in order?

You have put your case as if we are now disregarding the great scientists. But this is far from true!

This is not about science per se, it is about Man being conscious of his identity with God even outside the lab. And still have an integrated life.

How will you justify the possibility of people being internally divided?

If there's no integration, how will we protect the 'I'.

If you understand the case of Schroedinger's cat, why do you look at the history and evolution of science so casually?

Please remember that we can only have a Grand Unifying Theory, if we integrate Man!
tycho
#72 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:37:53 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
@Wakanyugi, I suspect that you have failed to see my proof because of disparity in method of showing proof.

Once again let me use your argument:

You say space and time don't exist, then you boldly state that evolution has been responding to these illusion.

If evolution is real, then time must be real!

But because time is not real, then there is no evolution, and even singularity will not exist.

You like mentioning Einstein, now what does he say about thinking about how we think?

Now, if space and time don't exist, how can a proof exist? Certainly a proof implies time!

So my question is, if space and time don't exist, how can you have a philosophy that demands proof?
ChessMaster
#73 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:51:43 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Hahaha....to prove time doesn't exist is to prove yourself wrong.Interesting,a self defeating argument.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
tycho
#74 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:56:22 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
digitek1 wrote:
nobility implies that there are others who are serfs, nobility is is for the few. We cant all be kings.Even in Gods kingdom there is hierarchy.
I never claimed to be a mangod, you did. God is ultimately the ulitimate. we can be like him ..its an evolutionary process..but we cannnot be him at the same time and be man. His spirit can dwell in us as but we cannot be man and God at the same time . it has been tried many times since babel



Digitek, are you implying that words have fixed meaning?

Or that ideas about heaven don't evolve? That is, humans do not change their understanding, even of a paragraph in a book?

You seem to operate from such a mind!

And then I am surprised that all of a sudden that Man and God cannot be in identity now. First, this is contrary to most Scripture, except perhaps of religious atheism!

So, if you are relying on tradition for your argument, which is it?

Ask yourself, if there's going to be a hierarchy in heaven, does it mean that there's also punishment in heaven? Will there be envy?

Your ideas on hierarchy imply such a belief!

Otherwise if the hierarchy exists without comparing oneself to the other, then there's no hierarchy!

So, what happened in Babel? And what is the ultimate message of theistic belief?
Impunity
#75 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 4:56:54 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,331
Location: Masada
ChessMaster wrote:
Hahaha....to prove time doesn't exist is to prove yourself wrong.Interesting,a self defeating argument.


What do we have beyond space?What exist out of space?

d'oh! d'oh!
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

ChessMaster
#76 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 5:05:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Impunity wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Hahaha....to prove time doesn't exist is to prove yourself wrong.Interesting,a self defeating argument.


What do we have beyond space?What exist out of space?

d'oh! d'oh!


What is the opposite of life? Nonexistence.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
akowally
#77 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 5:33:38 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/20/2008
Posts: 1,126
Location: Nairobi
God created the earth and all in it.

I hope that makes sense in this sophisticated conversation.
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tycho
#78 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 8:14:28 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
akowally wrote:
God created the earth and all in it.

I hope that makes sense in this sophisticated conversation.


Yes. It does.

And my hope is that the statement isn't an obstacle to having an integrated life that is also at harmony with science.
Wakanyugi
#79 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 11:18:59 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Dear Tycho,

I suggest we move on to other questions. It seems we are in parallel Universes.

Here is what I said:

Time is not real; does not exist. Therefore space does not exist. Therefore the Universe does not exist. Therefore relativity does not exist. Therefore YOU don't exist.

In other words - the above have no reality except that which (observer) gives them. They are all illusions.

The only thing that exists is 'UNITY' - call it a singularity if you like. Einstein and others called it 'Observer.'

Here is what I DID NOT say:

I make no value judgement on our creations. We have created illusions and called them time, space, Tycho, Chessmaster...etc, etc. This does not mean they are meaningless or wrong or of less value. In UNITY there is nothing to contrast them with anyway.

But they are still illusions, which we create for very specific purposes.

For time, in my opinion, the most important purpose of this illusion is to help us operate in a 'strange' 4 dimensional reality. One that is not innate to our/my/your nature at all.

And NOW, I REST my case.


"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Wakanyugi
#80 Posted : Monday, February 11, 2013 11:28:22 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,635
Impunity wrote:


What do we have beyond space?What exist out of space?

d'oh! d'oh!


@Impunity; Unfortunately philosophy is not a democracy. There are some questions that are simply not allowed and yours is one of them smile

Unless we change the definition of Universe - as comprising all of space etc - nothing can exist outside of space.

Not even 'nothing.'

Even a Multiverse is simply a 'more spacious' Universe.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
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