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XCESS FUEL CONSUMPTION - DRIVE OR NEUTRAL
Burning Spear
#1 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:06:43 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
Dear Wazuans,

I know this is a debatable topic but I have noted over a long time that when I engage N while on traffic jam, the R/min rise as copared to when stopping while on D.

So when does the car consume alot, when on N or D.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
dnn
#2 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:41:54 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/17/2006
Posts: 133

well,some shift to N-mostly to step off the brakes in traffic...though an automatic vehicle should basically be on D...N is rare, probably when towed
Burning Spear
#3 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:06:14 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
dnn wrote:

well,some shift to N-mostly to step off the brakes in traffic...though an automatic vehicle should basically be on D...N is rare, probably when towed



Thanks for this. So,when on D, the car consumes less.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
XSK
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 29, 2013 3:18:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/8/2009
Posts: 975
Location: Nairobi
Burning Spear wrote:
dnn wrote:

well,some shift to N-mostly to step off the brakes in traffic...though an automatic vehicle should basically be on D...N is rare, probably when towed



Thanks for this. So,when on D, the car consumes less.


@BS

Think of it like this, when does a manual car consume more - with a gear engaged or free? The same case applies to automatics. When on position D (Drive) the gear is engaged. The engine is loaded, its only the brake or terrain that can stop the vehicle from moving. On the other hand when in N (neutral). The engine runs freely no load. Tell me when should it consume more?

Hint : when the revs are high (model dependant)when you car is idling, it means either there is a problem somewhere, its deliberately set at that point or the engine has not warmed to its optimum temp of operation.
You will know that you have arrived when money and time are not mutually exclusive "events" in you life!
mukiha
#5 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:08:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
Burning Spear wrote:
Dear Wazuans,

I know this is a debatable topic but I have noted over a long time that when I engage N while on traffic jam, the R/min rise as copared to when stopping while on D.

So when does the car consume alot, when on N or D.


Difference is insignificant
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
tuvok
#6 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:48:08 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
In traffic I usually have it on N and engage the hand brake. To rest my foot. Fuel savings as @mukiha puts it is insignificant. Turn off the engine if stationary for long - that way you know you are saving fuel.

As for the RPM - possibly once a gear is engaged, there's a set RPM for that gear and thus could be a lower RPM than when idle. When idle for a petrol engine, typically should be an avg of 800 rpm. Less on a diesel I think (don't own one).
Tebes
#7 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:21:23 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
tuvok wrote:
In traffic I usually have it on N and engage the hand brake. To rest my foot. Fuel savings as @mukiha puts it is insignificant. Turn off the engine if stationary for long - that way you know you are saving fuel.

As for the RPM - possibly once a gear is engaged, there's a set RPM for that gear and thus could be a lower RPM than when idle. When idle for a petrol engine, typically should be an avg of 800 rpm. Less on a diesel I think (don't own one).


You will actually use more fuel if the rev meter goes up when you engage Neutral. Most car manuals will not advice you engage Neutral while driving.
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
JkMwatha
#8 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:42:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/11/2007
Posts: 816
Burning Spear wrote:
Dear Wazuans,

I know this is a debatable topic but I have noted over a long time that when I engage N while on traffic jam, the R/min rise as copared to when stopping while on D.

So when does the car consume alot, when on N or D.


XSK wrote:
........

Hint : when the revs are high (model dependant)when you car is idling, it means either there is a problem somewhere, its deliberately set at that point or the engine has not warmed to its optimum temp of operation.




It is definitely debatable... but the saving is insignificant. What I would find even more debatable, is whether its a good thing or not.

http://www.google.co.uk/...mp;biw=1280&bih=909

But look for 'knowledgable' contributors to these debates.

As for you RPM rising it happens in some cars.There may be nothing wrong with your car. Many mercs will show the rpm dial rising slightly when you go into go into neutral compared to when in D and foot on brake.... nothing wrong with the car.
tuvok
#9 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:49:47 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
Another possible reason for having it on N while in stationary traffic is in case
a) someone tail-ends you ...

b) something makes you lose attention and you unconsciously lift your foot off the brake pedal... (like this time on Uhuru Highway when a phone got snatched) and in the resulting melee, the guy lifted his foot off the brake and gave the car in front a gentle nudge.
Kausha
#10 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:00:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
If at N it's revving higher it means your fuel injection or cooling system setting is very high and is wasting fuel. Also check whether you have enough engine oil and engine coolant and that your A/C controls work. When a car is idling it should burn the least because it only needs enough power to continue running the engine and a few components working as opposed to power to keep the engine running and transmission. Check your coolant and that you have enough oil, if no solution check the system settings at a qualified mech workshop!
jamplu
#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:31:24 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Burning Spear wrote:
Dear Wazuans,

I know this is a debatable topic but I have noted over a long time that when I engage N while on traffic jam, the R/min rise as copared to when stopping while on D.

So when does the car consume alot, when on N or D.


Most likely that shift from N to D over and over will definitely affect the lever link but in terms of saving fuel i bet the difference is negligible!

I checked in one manual and they have specified the different rpm's expected for different gears including when the AC is on.

mukiha
#12 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:15:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 4,114
When stationary in N; revs are at "idle" setting. Car consumes minimum fuel.

When in D but stationary via hand-break; revs go down slightly BUT, due to loading as car tries to move, the EFI enriches the air-fuel mixture. Car consumes almost same as previous case... probably exactly the same.

When in D via foot brake; revs go slightly lower than above because foot break vacuum chamber uses intake suction pressure. EFI enriches air-fuel mixture even farther. Car consumes more fuel than when on hand break.... but just slightly more than when in N.

Conclusion: if you want to save fuel, turn off the engine completely each time you stop... but your savings might be eaten by the extra wear on your starter...
Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
accelriskconsult
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:31:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/2/2011
Posts: 629
Location: Nai
Mukiha - Thanks for the info. I personally found it annoying when the driver infront switches off and takes his time to restart when the jam gets moving.

Doesnt the need to keep up with traffic mean that if you switched off, you will utilise much more fuel at take off? I think that there will be no savings at all if you are forced to put heavy foot to pedal to catch up with the cars in front or at least to prevent that evil cop from stopping the traffic stream right at the time you get to the round about.
mkeiyd
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:08:53 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
I think when on N, the engine is free, not loaded and that's why the rpm goes slightly up. It has nothing to do with consuming more.
Think of it this way, when your car is loaded to capacity with luggage or passengers and you floor the accelerator, what happens? Compare that to when the car has the driver only [not loaded] and its downhill and you floor the accelerator, what happens?
Does it mean loaded to capacity or uphill a car consumes less just coz the rpm doesn't goes as high as when on a downhill and not loaded?

It all depends on how the engine is "loaded".
D and not moving consumes slightly more fuel than when on N ,since the engine is not free.
Burning Spear
#15 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:31:36 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
This is absolutely beautiful. Well rounded explanations. I now understands why and what to do.
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
banyamulenge
#16 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:41:12 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 481
mkeiyd wrote:
I think when on N, the engine is free, not loaded and that's why the rpm goes slightly up. It has nothing to do with consuming more.
Think of it this way, when your car is loaded to capacity with luggage or passengers and you floor the accelerator, what happens? Compare that to when the car has the driver only [not loaded] and its downhill and you floor the accelerator, what happens?
Does it mean loaded to capacity or uphill a car consumes less just coz the rpm doesn't goes as high as when on a downhill and loaded?

It all depends on how the engine is "loaded".
D and not moving consumes slightly more fuel than when on N ,since the engine is free.


@Mckeind uv nailed it neatly Shift to Neutral

"The longer the fuse the mightier the blast!"
tuvok
#17 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 1:33:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/2/2007
Posts: 536
banyamulenge wrote:


@Mckeind uv nailed it neatly Shift to Neutral


Useful article.


Also noticed that shifting to N from D. Revs went up slightly for a couple of seconds then back to the same level. Computer doing its thing I suppose.
mlefu
#18 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:36:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1,680
Location: nairobi
Copy pasted this to some female mates here..

I am the man of the week...Applause
Burning Spear
#19 Posted : Thursday, January 31, 2013 3:27:13 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 1,139
tuvok wrote:
banyamulenge wrote:


@Mckeind uv nailed it neatly Shift to Neutral


Useful article.


Also noticed that shifting to N from D. Revs went up slightly for a couple of seconds then back to the same level. Computer doing its thing I suppose.


Great article. Thanx
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it". Malcolm X
Impunity
#20 Posted : Friday, February 01, 2013 10:30:46 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,328
Location: Masada
mkeiyd wrote:
I think when on N, the engine is free, not loaded and that's why the rpm goes slightly up. It has nothing to do with consuming more.
Think of it this way, when your car is loaded to capacity with luggage or passengers and you floor the accelerator, what happens? Compare that to when the car has the driver only [not loaded] and its downhill and you floor the accelerator, what happens?
Does it mean loaded to capacity or uphill a car consumes less just coz the rpm doesn't goes as high as when on a downhill and not loaded?

It all depends on how the engine is "loaded".
D and not moving consumes slightly more fuel than when on N ,since the engine is not free.


You are thinking exactly like me and guest what, you and I are right.
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