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Kikuyu dowry rules
kenmac
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:29:42 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
I have searched the internet for comprehensive information regarding kikuyu dowry rules, and the web is getting smaller because the websites have just copy pasted from each other.

I need to know; Suppose a man did not pay dowry for his wife. In this scenario, it is against the customs and traditions for the man to receive dowry when one of his daughters is getting married. What does the culture say about a son marrying. Can the son give dowry to his fiance's family, or must the dad clear with the grandparents?

I need the help from wazua kikuyu elders.
......Ecclesiastes
simonkabz
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:10:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
The parents MUST clear off any pending "debts" for the sons n daughters to go ahead with theirs. My 2 rupees.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
ali
#3 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:38:17 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 6/11/2008
Posts: 892
simonkabz wrote:
The parents MUST clear off any pending "debts" for the sons n daughters to go ahead with theirs. My 2 rupees.


but:
had the father visited? in my view, the process may have started...eg
had done
'kumenya mucii'
had been shown 'kiara kia guikia mahuti'
and had perhaps paid 'mwati na harika'
etc....and if they had done 'kuhoya uhiki' stuff.
if you had done all that but had not yet paid the dowry, in my view, the son can go ahead and pay dowry.
but if the father never even went once to report 'theft', then the no dowry can be paid or received from that house until the 'goat thieft' announces he has the goat, does all the processes and pay dowry, even if in part.
my 1 cent
For in him (Jesus) we live and move and have our being-Acts 17:28
Njung'e
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:46:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
ali wrote:
simonkabz wrote:
The parents MUST clear off any pending "debts" for the sons n daughters to go ahead with theirs. My 2 rupees.


but:
had the father visited? in my view, the process may have started...eg
had done
'kumenya mucii'
had been shown 'kiara kia guikia mahuti'
and had perhaps paid 'mwati na harika'
etc....and if they had done 'kuhoya uhiki' stuff.
if you had done all that but had not yet paid the dowry, in my view, the son can go ahead and pay dowry.
but if the father never even went once to report 'theft', then the no dowry can be paid or received from that house until the 'goat thieft' announces he has the goat, does all the processes and pay dowry, even if in part.
my 1 cent


Applause Applause Applause
Maybe you can add that dowry meant to be paid for your daughter can go directly to pay for your wife.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
murchr
#5 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:55:46 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
^^^^^Thats the same with Kaos.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
kenmac
#6 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:01:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
Thanks. Now this is getting interesting.

@guka ebu ongezea mawaidha.

Can one pay dowry for his mother then? Btw, this would mean paying twice and ain't funny.
......Ecclesiastes
kenmac
#7 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:19:53 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
@ali, thanks. please give details of what happens during stages you have mentioned.


Am on the hot seat, and next Saturday is crucifix.
......Ecclesiastes
Mukiri
#8 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:37:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
An Uncle recently paid dowry. His last born is finishing campus. The funny thing is we grandchildren were allowed to 'argue our cases' and got something from him. Probably accounted for as 'penalties'smile

Proverbs 19:21
limanika
#9 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:02:01 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 9/21/2011
Posts: 2,032
I think it will also depend on the circumstances at play but strictly speaking, the son should settle his mother's dowry before his own
simonkabz
#10 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:28:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
^^ Exactly. You are not allowed to receive any dowry for your daughter, if at all you haven't initiated the process for your wife. Your daughter's dowry goes straight to your parents, not you {coz you are considered a THIEF!}.

Again, it is said "uthoni duthiraga" ......I guess it means the process never ends/has no end, I stand to be corrected.

@ali, add "gutinerio kiande", "kuhanda ithigi" etc. Somebody enumerate them clearly.
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
D32
#11 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:53:17 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 808
I know that some want cows, others want other things, but if all was to be converted to cash, what would be the average cost? Not Kikuyu only, but the average nationally.
They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
kenmac
#12 Posted : Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:06:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
I have copy pasted this from; Winnie Akiki, Weddings Kenya; N. W. Sobania, Culture & Customs of Kenya.

It was the most helpful work I could find

Quote:
KIKUYU DOWRY PROCEDURES


Introduction

The Kikuyu are found in Kenya and live mainly around Mt. Kenya in the Central Province. They believe to be the descendants of Gikuyu (father) and Mumbi (Mother) whose origin was in Mukurwe wa Nyagathanga (meaning a certain tree-mukurwe, with a certain species of birds-nyagathanga). This is a place in Murang’a Central Kenya. The Kikuyu believe in one deity (Ngai mwene hinya) who they believe lived in the highest peak of Mt. Kirinyaga (today’s Mt. Kenya). They are traditionally farmers and good livestock keepers. Their products from the farm and animals were key in trade. Infact, dowry payment was counted in form of goats, sheep and cattle. The man with many daughters considered himself wealthy since each daughter’s dowry would propel him to a higher level in the society.
Today, dowry payment precedes a wedding in Kikuyu. The dowry payment is in a series of events namely “Kumenya mucii” (getting to know the bride’s home), “Kuhanda ithigi” (literally means planting a branch of a tree), followed by “Kuracia” (actual dowry payment) ..This last process lasts a lifetime. Itara (getting to see the nest or nesting place of their daughter) which is a visit to the Groom’s homestead is next and finally Kuguraria (aka gutinia kiande) the traditional kikuyu wedding of antiquity.
Letting the word out

A man first proposes to a lady and after she agrees to be married, a series of events follow.
The groom approaches his parents/guardians and informs them of his intention of marrying. The parents then enquire about the lady’s background, e.g. clan from which she comes from, her community etc. This is to ensure that there is no cross marriage between family members. Once they are satisfied with the information, the groom’s father/guardian informs the extended family and clan who then go ahead to convene a special committee of reputable village elders “athuri’. Their task is to organize and facilitate the dowry payment process and also the wedding. From this committee the groom’s father/guardian chooses a spokesman for the dowry and marriage negotiations. The spokesman must be self-controlled, wise and be able to rise to the occasion. This is a key post.
NB: The groom must have passed through the initiation stage (circumcision) and belong to a ‘rika’ or age group otherwise complications in negotiations could be introduced.
The bride also approaches her parents/guardian and informs them of her intention to get married. The parents/guardians then enquire about the groom’s family, clan and community. They then inform the extended family members, clan and community at large. Like the groom’s side, they also form a committee to facilitate the dowry payment process and also the wedding. The bride’s father and uncles have the sole responsibility to decide who joins this committee.

Who makes a reputable village elder.
There are certain qualifications that elders must meet in order to qualify to be in the committee of elders.
• The Committee elder should be of the same age group as the bride/groom’s father.
• He should have married and have children with a good reputation and standing in the community.
• Be a member of the ‘kiama’ of the community. This is achieved by presenting ‘mburi’ (goats) for the leaders and other members ‘mburi ya kiama’.

THE PROCESS

When the man wants to marry the woman, he first proposes to the woman. If she agrees, he then sets a meeting with elders of his tribe. Elders are usually members of the extended family who are in their 60's and above. He then sends this delegation to the girl’s family. Before they go, they send word that they want to visit on a certain date. Usually, this is done between 1-3 months. The entourage is usually a group of 8-15 members. When the elders go to the girl's home, they are met by the girl's family, who also have by this time called their group of elders. They usually bring small gifts of dry foods, for example rice, wheat, sugar, tea, cooking oil, etc. This is a common practice when one visits any family, and so this is not part of the dowry. After the food and the warm welcome, the elders of the man say something like this. We have an interest in one of your "sheep" or we have noticed one of your sheep, and we would like to bring her to our homestead. Likewise, if a girl elopes, the elders go to the boy's home and say something like this. "We have lost one of our sheep, and we heard that it was seen here….
The negotiations are not done that day, so the elders then say that they just wanted to come and visit and they will be back. After a time is set, usually in a few weeks, the elders return. The negotiations then start. The talking is done only by the elders. It is taboo for the young man to speak, and in doing so, he could seriously jeopardize the negotiations. The rule of thumb in negotiating the dowry used to be whatever the father of the bride paid for his mother that is what he would request for a bride price. Things have changed much since then. The bride price now is determined by several factors.
• How much education the girl has received
• If she has a career
• Social Class

FIRST VISIT- ‘Kumenya mucii’ (Getting to know the bride’s home)

Once both sides are organized and ready, the groom’s side first take a gift of two fattened rams ‘Ndurume’ to the bride’s home as an indication that the bride is about to get married. The number can vary depending on culture. Later on, the groom’s side communicate their intention to visit the bride’s home. This is communicated by the groom to the bride.
The groom’s side cater for all expenses arising from the food and drinks to be consumed on that particular day. They come with gifts in form of cash and also in kind and give to the bride’s family. After eating, the two families get to know each other. The bride then informs the group about the nature of the visit – to get married. The groom likewise states his intentions of marrying the said bride. After this both sides agree on the next stage of dowry payment which is ‘kuhanda ithigi’.

DOWRY PAYMENT ‘KURACIA’

On the day of dowry payment, the groom’s side visit the bride’s home. After eating, they settle down to business. First, they go through the process known as ‘kuunirwo miti’, that is, what they are supposed to bring as dowry payment for the bride. A bride’s dowry is determined by the amount of dowry that her father paid for her mother. The groom then starts by ‘kuhanda ithigi’ which literally means planting a branch of a tree which symbolizes that the lady has been booked officially by the groom.
After this, the groom goes ahead to start the dowry payment process. Since dowry payment lasts a lifetime, he is thus required to pay a certain amount before being allowed to marry the bride. The rest of the dowry is paid after the two have married. The dowry payment is also determined by the state of the bride. If she is a virgin, then the above applies. If she is pregnant, the process is hurried so that the child can be born in a stable home/family.
Dowry or bride price constitutes the following:
Athuri (items for men)
• Goima (fattened ram)
• Thenge (he goat)
• Ng’ondu (sheep)
• Kaburi
• Blankets
• Mori (heifer)
• Mburi cia mirongo (goats – these are counted in tens)
• Njohi ya uuki (beer made from honey)
• Maaha-indo cia muthuri(assorted items for bride’s father)
• Itangi ria mai (water tank)

Atumia (Items for women)
• Nyungu (pot)
• Ciihuri (calabashes)
• Ithanwa (axe)
• Mukwa (new rope)
• Nguo cia atumia (women wear)
• Lesos
• Njohi ya atumia (beer for women-now sodas)
• Ushuru wa mukio (fermented porridge)
The quantity for each of the items varies with the clans and communities and also regions.
When all of the dowry has been paid, the bride cannot return to her home under any circumstances. (Traditionally speaking. It has nowadays been amended to the Wedding day due to Christian values & customs). This is called ‘ngurario’ or ‘gutinia kiande’(cutting of one of the front limbs of a fattened ram). Here the husband cuts of one of the front limbs of a fattened ram (gutinia kiande) that has already been roasted and gives it to his wife as a sign that she now belongs to him completely. This part contains only one joint and it signifies the permanence of the union between the husband and wife. It is considered as a seal over the wife. Both of them now cannot be separated except through death of one partner. It is also very tender and signifies the love and tenderness that both husband and wife have for each other. In addition, the ‘kiande’ represents the importance of the human hand which does all the work as compared to any other part of the body e.g. cooking, fetching water, washing etc. After this event the wife now becomes like a son to her marital home.
During this ceremony, there are other parts of the roasted fattened ram that are given to all who attend the ceremony. The following parts are given to women:
• Ngerima(true stomach)
• Mara (small intestines)
• Honge (pelvic bone)
• Mbaru/ikengeto (ribs)
• Matu (ears) (given to single women so that they can understand instruction)
• Higo (Kidneys)
Young men today are having a hard time because there are no rules and some people have become very greedy. The dowry is still negotiated in terms of cows, goats, and honey. Once the price has been determined, it is now converted into cash. The elders leave a major down payment and a day is then set for the wedding. Dowry negotiations are usually done over several weeks or months. The balance can take years to pay. Usually the family never asks for the balance. If the man doesn't finish paying the balance then he begets a daughter, she cannot be married unless he finishes paying the balance. (This is very embarrassing, and most people avoid this) If they never have children, then the man's family is left with a "stain" that they never honor their word and this becomes common knowledge. For this reasons, the bride price "loan" is always paid up. When the bride price is finally paid up, there is a ceremony done. This in the olden days signified a marriage. The family of the bride usually kill a goat and they give the front legs to the husband. This signified that he was now the husband of the woman and that he and not her father bears the full responsibility for her. This practice is still done even today.

The Marriage Ceremony

The whole community usually gets involved. The women team up and organize the menu, and they contribute the food. The young men and women team up and raise funds for the wedding. This is done through a "pre wedding party". The young men arrange for transportation and refreshments. The girl’s family is usually responsible for the bride's dress, and the younger children who will be in the wedding party. The bride chooses her bride's maids and she usually chooses from both sides (families) and includes her friends. Kikuyu weddings are usually huge. It is not uncommon to find the bridal party of 20+.

Eve of the wedding:

In the days before the wedding, the young man brings women from his village to visit his future in laws for the drinks ceremony ‘kurehe soda’ or formerly ‘kurehe ucuru’. They usually come not just to visit, but to help with the wedding items. They bring with them drinks – soda, sour millet porridge ‘ucuru wa ugimbi’ etc. to support the bride’s family who will be ‘cooking all night’ for the ceremony the night before the wedding.
This is really a way for the women folk to socialize with each other and build some ties. It is not uncommon for a few men to attend from the Man’s side to render any assistance and escort the ladies. As they get close to the house, they all start hooting their cars and they don’t stop until they are allowed in the bride's homestead. When the hooting starts, the village women from the bride rush to the gate and block it. The negotiations for entrance then begin. This time, it is done in form of music and song. The women sing that they "didn't hear" the ‘strangers’ come and why do they want to "steal" their daughter away? They are requested to go back and return in the right way. The groom’s team may have to drive back (about 1/2 mile) and then return. The women then ask for blankets, sugar, tea, soda pop and other small items. The idea behind is: Our "daughter" used to cook & make tea for us - we don’t know who can replace her. All this is done through song and dance, and the young man (this is his mother’s domain) usually brings a woman who would be the main negotiators in the song saga. This can go on for about an hour. The young man’s team is then let in . The items that are requested are then shared out among the villagers. The women then join in the festivities and the ‘all night cooking’
In modern times, there is no longer the ‘all night’ cooking parties since most weddings are catered by professional cooks. This ceremony however is still observed in the days preceding the wedding.
......Ecclesiastes
Njung'e
#13 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 6:21:27 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Kenmac,
More or less like it albeit a few mistakes/fallacies here and there....Go with it as you learn but note here;

-Fattened ram = Ngoima and not Goima.
-Kidneys are for the youngest girl in the family and not for any other woman
-Mara is not neccesarily for women although they are spared what is reffered to as "gitungo" (Part).The other is mostly eaten by the fireside alongside roasted liver and "ruambu" by "athinji" (mbuzi murdererssmile ).

and yep,the neck goes to the uncircumsised.Reason?.It carries 99% bones and the separate discs are to be used for making "ibiri".The "uncut" are supposed to pick out all the meat on the discs with their teeth.By the time they are through,the good meat is finished.So,if someone offers you shingo and you went to the river,hiyo ni madharau.Weka yeye nyahunyo tatusmile.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
kenmac
#14 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 9:30:32 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
@guka, consider writing a book/blog on these issues.

mohoro kuma kundu na kundu maronania niruthamite mukaro. Eg.

Ihenya inene ricindagwo ni andu a Rift Valley

mwigarekanio waninire entrepreneurship.


Rwi itara ruthekagirirwo ni rwi mutitu


Kiamia kimwe, MPs ciamia ciothe

. Igego rithekagia kilo ya nyama.

Mata moru, ni ma mundu utakinyaga magego

Meera igana rimwe itiremagwo ni reli.

Cia mukari iriagwo hindi ya kambeni (campaign)

Kaihu gacangacangi kaninaga nguku cia ituura

Kiura kiaringio ruui kiuragia" ugwiciragia
ndingihota guthambira?"

Atumia eri ni thina mutheri
......Ecclesiastes
Njung'e
#15 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 10:04:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
kenmac wrote:
@guka, consider writing a book/blog on these issues.


Kiamia kimwe, MPs ciamia ciothe

Igego rithekagia kilo ya nyama.



Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly ....I like that!!...Some day i'll consider writing.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
Shak
#16 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 12:47:55 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/22/2009
Posts: 2,449
Location: Africa
Very educative topic. I like. I was just wondering what the law says regarding an incomplete customary marriage. eg. if you have only gone up to kuracia and haven't paid dowry in full, does the law recognize yours as a legal marriage?
2012
#17 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 12:53:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
Shak wrote:
if you have only gone up to kuracia and haven't paid dowry in full, does the law recognize yours as a legal marriage?


I doubt as kuracia is not marriage traditionally. The traditional wedding takes place after ruracio.

BBI will solve it
:)
jguru
#18 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 2:37:23 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
And... If your father had not paid dowry for your mother, and the father of your mother (grandfather) passes on, it becomes a BIG issue! Dowry then has to paid to the brothers of your mother's father (other grandfathers). If they are also not there (dead or otherwise), dowry is paid to the brothers of your mother (uncles).

Some old men are strict about these traditions! Remember the case in Murang'a where a calf had to be buried alive to avert a curse?

http://www.nation.co.ke/...0/-/ydf1yhz/-/index.html
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
kenmac
#19 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 4:23:06 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 1,793
If GEMA could stop politicking and take the role of imparting cultural teachings to other generations, we would be better informed.
They should partner with bloggers and put all they know in the internet.


Too bad they don't even have a website.
......Ecclesiastes
murenj
#20 Posted : Monday, December 31, 2012 7:11:24 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 851
Location: nairobi
@ guka, shed some light here...... A bride’s dowry is determined by the amount of dowry that her father paid for her mother. so how comes we now have water tanks, sugar, lesos et al......items that were not traditionally manufactured by the Agikuyu?

I have a kikuyu neighbor, who boasts that the man who will marry his only daughter must construct a house for him. He himself is married to a mchaga from TZ...probably never paid a cent in dowry. has stayed in town most of his life. so, wazee atatoa wapi? na mbona anaitisha ile ambayo hauitishwa?
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