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Fixed deposit account
Rank: Member Joined: 9/20/2007 Posts: 252
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Hi Wazuans,
Please advice on the bank offering the highest returns p.a for a fixed deposit account/call account.
Asanteni
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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mungaits wrote:Hi Wazuans,
Please advice on the bank offering the highest returns p.a for a fixed deposit account/call account.
Asanteni Try faulu,some months ago I was looking for a place to put some idle cash.Faulu's rate was the highest I could get but the problem was that funds have to be kept there for at least 3 months
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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FAULU: 1 Million Deposit 3 Months 9.50% 6 Months 10.25% 12 Months 11.25%
STANDARD 1 Million 12 Months 10.25%
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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Help required if say:
A bank gives me a loan of 1 Million to be paid at 12% interest [for 1 year] and I deposit in a fixed account 1 million in a bank that is giving me 12% p.a Question: Will the two interests be equal? How is this mathematics done? Somebody knowledgeable?
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2008 Posts: 84
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@Ngong Depends whether the bank loan is on flat rate or reducing balance. If flat rate then you'll be making a loss...if on reducing balance then there's some income to be earned... Option 1: Bank Loan - Flat Rate Total Interest expense = 120K Total repayment = 1.12M Option 2: Bank Loan - Reducing Balance Total Interest expense = 66,185 Total repayment = 1.066M However, I highly doubt that the bank would give you a loan using option 2, unless you're an employee of the bank.. Life and beer are very similar........chill for best results.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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@iMANI Thanks
Does it then follow that if I have a fixed account giving me 10.25% and I take 80% of my fixed account as a loan at 16% from the bank I am paying the loan at 5.75% = [16-10.25]? Assuming equal duration. Right? taking option 1!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Ngong wrote:@iMANI Thanks
Does it then follow that if I have a fixed account giving me 10.25% and I take 80% of my fixed account as a loan at 16% from the bank I am paying the loan at 5.75% = [16-10.25]? Assuming equal duration. Right? taking option 1! ...not really as you were told earlier the loan is on a different platform mst likely compounded while the fixed deposit is on simple interest...kesho asubuhi 1st thing we will do a practical example. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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@Ngong - I had also thought of the same thing but using bonds instead to reduce the loan payments and possibly make a profit.But then I remembered bonds are instruments that reward/punish you if interests rates change.Using the example you have given you won't pay 5.75% for the loan.You will actually have a loss. Here's how,with loan and without loan: Without loan Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% After One Year Total = 1,000,000*(1+.1025) = 1,102,500 Profit = 102,500 With loan of 80% of deposit Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% 20% deposit(200,000) = 200,000*(1+0.1025) = 224,000 Profit on 20% = 24,000 80% deposit(800,000) = 800,000*(1+0.1025) = 896,000 Profit on 80% = 96,000 Total Profit = 96,000 + 24,000 = 120,000 Loan Calculations Principal Amount(80%)= 1,000,000*0.8 = 800,000 Loan + Interest = 800,000*(1+.016) = 928,000 Interest Amount = 928,000 - 800,000 = 128,000 End loss = 120,000 - 128,000 = -8,000 The reason I separated the loan part into 800,000 and 200,000 is to make it easier to match the 800,000 loan with the 800,000 in the fixed deposit.End of the day you have paid the bank 8,000 when you could have earned 102,500. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Member Joined: 9/20/2007 Posts: 252
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@Chaka & @Ngong, thanks alot.
Will checkout these Faulu guys.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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ChessMaster wrote:@Ngong - I had also thought of the same thing but using bonds instead to reduce the loan payments and possibly make a profit.But then I remembered bonds are instruments that reward/punish you if interests rates change.Using the example you have given you won't pay 5.75% for the loan.You will actually have a loss.
Here's how,with loan and without loan:
Without loan Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% After One Year Total = 1,000,000*(1+.1025) = 1,102,500 Profit = 102,500
With loan of 80% of deposit Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% 20% deposit(200,000) = 200,000*(1+0.1025) = 224,000 Profit on 20% = 24,000 80% deposit(800,000) = 800,000*(1+0.1025) = 896,000 Profit on 80% = 96,000 Total Profit = 96,000 + 24,000 = 120,000 Loan Calculations Principal Amount(80%)= 1,000,000*0.8 = 800,000 Loan + Interest = 800,000*(1+.016) = 928,000 Interest Amount = 928,000 - 800,000 = 128,000
End loss = 120,000 - 128,000 = -8,000
The reason I separated the loan part into 800,000 and 200,000 is to make it easier to match the 800,000 loan with the 800,000 in the fixed deposit.End of the day you have paid the bank 8,000 when you could have earned 102,500. ...@chess master unless you sell your bond before it matures thats the only time current interest rates can affect the bond price,rem your coupon is fixed no matter how rates flactuate unless of course its an FRN...there are formulae to calculate the value of a bond at a gvn time e.g Japanese gross redemption yield...i looked at the problem this way;if @ Ngong took 800,000 from a commercial bank @ 16% for 5 years (btw the duration really matters) it means he will pay a sum of 19,454.45,totalling to 1,167,267 this means that 145.90% of the amount borrowed is what will be paid in the end...if he deposits another 100000 in a fxd deposit account @ 10.25% he will be making,102,500,monthly that equates to 8,541.67...meaning he will be required to pay 19,454.45 - 8,541.67 = 10,912.78 per month for his loan. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:ChessMaster wrote:@Ngong - I had also thought of the same thing but using bonds instead to reduce the loan payments and possibly make a profit.But then I remembered bonds are instruments that reward/punish you if interests rates change.Using the example you have given you won't pay 5.75% for the loan.You will actually have a loss.
Here's how,with loan and without loan:
Without loan Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% After One Year Total = 1,000,000*(1+.1025) = 1,102,500 Profit = 102,500
With loan of 80% of deposit Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% 20% deposit(200,000) = 200,000*(1+0.1025) = 224,000 Profit on 20% = 24,000 80% deposit(800,000) = 800,000*(1+0.1025) = 896,000 Profit on 80% = 96,000 Total Profit = 96,000 + 24,000 = 120,000 Loan Calculations Principal Amount(80%)= 1,000,000*0.8 = 800,000 Loan + Interest = 800,000*(1+.016) = 928,000 Interest Amount = 928,000 - 800,000 = 128,000
End loss = 120,000 - 128,000 = -8,000
The reason I separated the loan part into 800,000 and 200,000 is to make it easier to match the 800,000 loan with the 800,000 in the fixed deposit.End of the day you have paid the bank 8,000 when you could have earned 102,500. ...@chess master unless you sell your bond before it matures thats the only time current interest rates can affect the bond price,rem your coupon is fixed no matter how rates flactuate unless of course its an FRN...there are formulae to calculate the value of a bond at a gvn time e.g Japanese gross redemption yield...i looked at the problem this way;if @ Ngong took 800,000 from a commercial bank @ 16% for 5 years (btw the duration really matters) it means he will pay a sum of 19,454.45,totalling to 1,167,267 this means that 145.90% of the amount borrowed is what will be paid in the end...if he deposits another 100000 in a fxd deposit account @ 10.25% he will be making,102,500,monthly that equates to 8,541.67...meaning he will be required to pay 19,454.45 - 8,541.67 = 10,912.78 per month for his loan. ...if @ ngong wants his profit from the 1,000,000 fxd deposit @ 10.25% to completely pay a loan,he can be gvn 351,248.04 @ 16% for 60 months or 5 years forming some sort of arbitrage,to pay 5.67% he can get a loan of 445,348...meaning he will need to top up on the monthly payment. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:ChessMaster wrote:@Ngong - I had also thought of the same thing but using bonds instead to reduce the loan payments and possibly make a profit.But then I remembered bonds are instruments that reward/punish you if interests rates change.Using the example you have given you won't pay 5.75% for the loan.You will actually have a loss.
Here's how,with loan and without loan:
Without loan Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% After One Year Total = 1,000,000*(1+.1025) = 1,102,500 Profit = 102,500
With loan of 80% of deposit Fixed Account Amount = 1,000,000 Interest Rate = 10.25% 20% deposit(200,000) = 200,000*(1+0.1025) = 224,000 Profit on 20% = 24,000 80% deposit(800,000) = 800,000*(1+0.1025) = 896,000 Profit on 80% = 96,000 Total Profit = 96,000 + 24,000 = 120,000 Loan Calculations Principal Amount(80%)= 1,000,000*0.8 = 800,000 Loan + Interest = 800,000*(1+.016) = 928,000 Interest Amount = 928,000 - 800,000 = 128,000
End loss = 120,000 - 128,000 = -8,000
The reason I separated the loan part into 800,000 and 200,000 is to make it easier to match the 800,000 loan with the 800,000 in the fixed deposit.End of the day you have paid the bank 8,000 when you could have earned 102,500. ...@chess master unless you sell your bond before it matures thats the only time current interest rates can affect the bond price,rem your coupon is fixed no matter how rates flactuate unless of course its an FRN...there are formulae to calculate the value of a bond at a gvn time e.g Japanese gross redemption yield...i looked at the problem this way;if @ Ngong took 800,000 from a commercial bank @ 16% for 5 years (btw the duration really matters) it means he will pay a sum of 19,454.45,totalling to 1,167,267 this means that 145.90% of the amount borrowed is what will be paid in the end...if he deposits another 100000 in a fxd deposit account @ 10.25% he will be making,102,500,monthly that equates to 8,541.67...meaning he will be required to pay 19,454.45 - 8,541.67 = 10,912.78 per month for his loan. ...if @ ngong wants his profit from the 1,000,000 fxd deposit @ 10.25% to completely pay a loan,he can be gvn 351,248.04 @ 16% for 60 months or 5 years forming some sort of arbitrage,to pay 5.67% he can get a loan of 445,348...meaning he will need to top up on the monthly payment. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2010 Posts: 335 Location: Nairobi
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I like CFC Stanbic's PureSave a/c. They were paying 11% for amounts above 500k and 9% for below. But they've cut these rates from Jan 2013 by 3% (now will be 8% and 6%)... so I'm shopping around; still a good deal though since it's a savings a/c you can access funds at any time, interest is on daily balances. "I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME "The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN "Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2012 Posts: 3,855 Location: Othumo
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you guys have not factored in: for the FDR = W/tax at 5% eaten by the GoK Loans: 1. loan application fees 2. some banks charge processing fees 3. life insurance 4. generally they will charge you some monthly ledger fees which look minimal but when added annual is a nice figure. Therefore, the loan cost is generally higher. Thieves
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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King G wrote:you guys have not factored in:
for the FDR = W/tax at 5% eaten by the GoK
Loans: 1. loan application fees 2. some banks charge processing fees 3. life insurance 4. generally they will charge you some monthly ledger fees which look minimal but when added annual is a nice figure.
Therefore, the loan cost is generally higher. ...yes,yes,yes there is alwayz all tht we were looking at it without all the nitty gritties. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 8/5/2010 Posts: 335 Location: Nairobi
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maka wrote:King G wrote:you guys have not factored in:
for the FDR = W/tax at 5% eaten by the GoK
Loans: 1. loan application fees 2. some banks charge processing fees 3. life insurance 4. generally they will charge you some monthly ledger fees which look minimal but when added annual is a nice figure.
Therefore, the loan cost is generally higher. ...yes,yes,yes there is alwayz all tht we were looking at it without all the nitty gritties. actually w/tax is 15% i think banks should be made to quote after tax prices like everyone else... safcom, airtel, EABL, nakumatt, kenolkobil etc. "I'd rather be lucky than clever... every time!" - ME "The problem is not what we don't know... it's what we know for sure that just ain't!" - MARK TWAIN "Space we can recover... time never!" - NAPOLEON BONAPARTE
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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This means if I give a bank 1 Million @ 10.25% FD for 1 year what I earn in 12 Months is: 1,000,000*1.1025=1102500-100000=102,500 W/H tax @ 15% of 102,500 = 15,375 Total Earning = 102,500 - 15,375 = 87,125 87,125/12=7260 per month
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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But if I take a loan of Same amount at 16%:
Loan amount: 1000000 Number of Payments: 12 Annual Rate: .1600 Monthly Rate: .01333 Monthly Payment: sh90730.86 Total Paid: sh1088770.29 Total Interest: sh88770.29
LOOK AT THIS: The bank has paid me Kshs. 87,125 I have Paid the bank Kshs. 88,770
Overall I have paid 88,770 - 87,125 = 1645 plus processing fees
At the end of the year I have my 1 million and a project worth a Million.
Is this wise or just wishful thinking?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Basically you are giving the bank money for no good reason.Yes at the end of the year you will have a project worth one million(hopefully) and the initial one million but the project itself you paid for with the monthly payments. Just use the money that you would have put in the fixed account to fund the project.Although you are getting a loan it's not being used to leverage your money/project in anyway.So its easier just to utilize the money you already have. Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/17/2012 Posts: 1,461 Location: Ngong Forest
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ChessMaster wrote:I think you are looking at it the wrong way. Basically you are giving the bank money for no good reason.Yes at the end of the year you will have a project worth one million(hopefully) and the initial one million but the project itself you paid for with the monthly payments. Just use the money that you would have put in the fixed account to fund the project.Although you are getting a loan it's not being used to leverage your money/project in anyway.So its easier just to utilize the money you already have. @Chessmaster Good that you appreciate that I will have a project and a million in hand to make it even stronger. This reasoning is mostly directed to the jua kali guys and those who work under contracts,the lending institutions have NO business with such people. Saccos would group you,something I hate when money is involved. What do you advice brother?
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