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Poor Performance from Nairobi Securites Exchange, it Sucks!!!!
sparkly
#21 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 4:26:18 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
sentinel prime wrote:
goodness! you're selling winners and sticking with losers! its called sunk costs/disposition effect and its the number one reason why speculators fail.

instead you should have added to the winners and cut the losers long time ago.

after what you believe to be a selling climax,you want to buy 20+ day breakouts with atleast 25% of intended position size and add if it continues higher....this is the best method to save yourself from ulcers.


the trick is to play small initially and not be mortally wounded by adverse moves and have your largest position in the biggest winners.


@transformer this is greek to me. Break it down in English please.
Life is short. Live passionately.
sparkly
#22 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 5:18:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Afroblk wrote:
Afroblk wrote:
I always consider myself a long term buyer but i think some long term hurts. I just wanted to highlight some stocks that have really frustrated me, i even forgot about them. I can never sell at a loss, and will hold them for as long as i can.

Bamburi bought @ 170 sometime in march 2010
Housing Finance bought @ 18 march 2010
EAPC @ 85
Kengen @ 15
BOC @ 160

While some stocks frustrated me, some gave me hope and not quit.

BAT @190 now 450
Equity @15 now 23
Carbacid @ 100 now 122
Scangroup @ 45 now 58

NSE has been performing very poorly but i still have hopes with the market. not too sure if it will be affected by the elections next year. For those back at home, what is the situation like? do you think there will be violence after the elections? i don't want to lose the gains that i've made in some counters. please advise. Thanks.



It's been over two months since I expressed my feeling about the NSE and i'm happy to say I've finally managed to offload all the counters that i've made some gains over a period of time. I had a hard time offloading some counters like BOC :( very frustrating but i eventually got a buyer. Nway, below is a summary of my standing since i posted this entry.

Bamburi bought @ 170 sold @189 = 11% gain

Housing Finance bought @ 18 still holding (prospects of the housing market and access to mortgage in middle class Kenyans) with today's price of 15.50 that edges me to a 14% loss

EAPC bought @ 85 (I'm still holding this counter despite the huge loss, I'm not sure why i still have it but im not willing to loose more than half of the value by selling it. planning on holding for about 5 years and acquiring more next year. The company is changing the way they do business and a different source of energy which consumed much of their production costs. Increase infrastructure and GDP growth should push this counter hoping the management will also get their shit together) with today's price of 39.00 i've realized a 54% loss

Kengen bought @ 15 (still holding and planning on acquiring more of these, this is a looooong term counter for me, one that i might leave to my children. So much potential in the Kenyan energy sector especially with nuclear in the horizon. I know they owe a huge debt to Japan and others but it's another thing to acquire a huge stake while its affordable). with the current price of 8.95 i've realized a 40% loss

BOC @ 160 sold @ 109 (This is one counter i shouldn't have touched, should have just stayed with CAB only) realized a 32% loss


While some stocks frustrated me, some gave me hope and not quit. I offloaded all the counters below and reserve my cash for a prospective counter that I've been eyeing for a while. hoping the counter will dip a little bit more approaching the elections.

BAT bought @190 sold @ 487 = 156% gain
Equity bought @15 sold @ 23.20 = 55% gain
Carbacid bought @ 100 sold @ 118 = 18% gain
Scangroup bought @ 45 sold @ 66 = 47% gain

Here's a summary of my losses and gains

Losses
14 + 54 + 40 + 32 = Average loss is 35%

Gains
11 + 156 + 55 + 18 + 47 = Average gain is 57%

Net gain = 22%

Overall i made some poor choices and wise ones and i emerged the winner. I know i will deep dive further from the counters that i'm still holding i.e. HFCK, EAPC and KenGen which are very long term counters. For now i'm holding on to the ash reserves waiting to make a bold entry right before elections when most folks will be offloading. Key thing is try and buy at a bargain but you never know how much a counter can depreciate. Mystery of the stock market.


@Afro you have done well, in the current market. A few observations (just my opinion, sharing from my experience with the nse. Note that am not a stocks professional).

- Your picks are very solid, eg BAT, Equity, Kengen, Bamburi, Scannad.

- Your frustration might stem from being a "long term buyer" (as you said you are) rather than a longterm investor. A longterm investor considers the dividend received, you havent factored dividends in your calculations.

- Price moves adversely even for good stocks but bad stocks may never recover. No need to keep on holding monkeys like Eapc.

- Are you trully diversified? Case in point, buying Carbacid + BOC, Bamburi + Eapc. Also a bit heavy on industrials. Your portifolio is likely to respond well to the same factors and do well in a boom period.

- On the specific stocks, i would act as follows, if it were me:

Bamburi- healthy dividend yield. Dominant player, expanding in EA and well placed to weather the competition in Cement industry. I would hold and buy at any price under 150.

Eapc-This is a monkey in a competitive industry. Poor management, politics, poor strategy, fraud by employees (link:DN). I would sell and save myself from ulcers.

BOC-Deteroriating fundamentals, no growth. I would sell, wait to buy if they introduce new products.

Carbacid-solid company, high demand for its products but declining margins, however offset by higher volumes. I would only buy if Dividend yield approaches 10% , DY being my security.

Scangroup- promising company with meagre Div. Either buy and wait for maturity or buy low (below 50) and sell high (towards 70). Might do well in this campaign period and definitely if the economic recovers.

Kengen-healthy div, ambitious expansion and a monopoly. I would average down.

BAT- A proven performer but fully priced. Sell

Equity-case study in how to grow a bank from the base. Hold.

Housing Finance- a little gem waiting to shine, undervalued. Buy.

Life is short. Live passionately.
sentinel prime
#23 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 5:53:04 PM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 11/12/2012
Posts: 92
@sparkly

what I was trying to imply as regarding PEV is that if a panic happens(20-30%) sell of in a month or so...the best strategy is not to buy the panic but to wait until stocks recover some ground preferably using n-day highs....coz you never know how low they could fall aka not catching falling knives.

hope it makes sense.
youcan'tstopusnow
#24 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 6:33:38 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
mwenza wrote:
Hii hesabu inanikumbusha ile ya bodmas tulifanya hapa Juzi...... Kweli hesabu sio rahisi!....How do you talk of overall percentage gains without factoring in quantities held in various counters? Na transaction commissions nayo?

Yep. He should consider the quantities...
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
mibbz
#25 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 8:23:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/18/2011
Posts: 448
kenmac wrote:
First, you have too many counters which is a pointer that maybe you are just speculating. One rule of WB is that diversification is for those who do not know what they are doing. start afresh


#word!! i have always believed in 2-3 counters at max for effective gains to be realized whether its 100 shares of 1000000 shares
dunkang
#26 Posted : Monday, December 24, 2012 9:28:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
@sparkly, this thing you and majority of Wazuans say that companies diversifying to other E.A states is a huge plus is a falacy.

E.A Cables Ltd venturing into TZ should serve as a very good eye opener to CEOs and investors.
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

sparkly
#27 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2012 10:05:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
dunkang wrote:
@sparkly, this thing you and majority of Wazuans say that companies diversifying to other E.A states is a huge plus is a falacy.

E.A Cables Ltd venturing into TZ should serve as a very good eye opener to CEOs and investors.


@dunkag exports into the EAC have provided a number of companies opportunity for top line growth. Look at the kenyan banks, EABL, NMG, Bamburi.
Life is short. Live passionately.
Afroblk
#28 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:28:27 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/3/2010
Posts: 79
sparkly wrote:
- Your frustration might stem from being a "long term buyer" (as you said you are) rather than a longterm investor. A longterm investor considers the dividend received, you havent factored dividends in your calculations.

- Are you trully diversified? Case in point, buying Carbacid + BOC, Bamburi + Eapc. Also a bit heavy on industrials. Your portifolio is likely to respond well to the same factors and do well in a boom period.






@Sparkly, Thank you for your input. Being a long term buyer/investor sometime hurts you but at the end markets shows that long term buyers/investors gain the most. With that said, I did not include all the dividends that I have received from all my counters especially BAT and Bamburi. The checks go to the mail and my mum banks them for me. I never consider the checks as return. To me return is the value of the stock that I'm holding, that's the reason why I'm not selling KenGen and Housing Finance as they hold quite a huge chunk of my portfolio and an appreciation of only 20% will put me to where I want to be as an investor.

On not being diversified, I was betting huge on infrastructure that's why I had a few counters on the industrials. For now I'm like a hawk waiting for the prey to get weak and attack. That's why I offloaded the best performing counters with hopes the prices will tumble during elections and buy again at a cheaper price. And I will take your advise and average down on KenGen.
Knowledge is contagious...Infect truth!
Afroblk
#29 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2012 5:34:12 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 3/3/2010
Posts: 79
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
mwenza wrote:
Hii hesabu inanikumbusha ile ya bodmas tulifanya hapa Juzi...... Kweli hesabu sio rahisi!....How do you talk of overall percentage gains without factoring in quantities held in various counters? Na transaction commissions nayo?

Yep. He should consider the quantities...



For my computation and margin gains I do not include quantities for obvious reasons. I buy my stocks as chunks so always have one buying price. the basic calculations are not affected whether you trade 100 or 100,000 stocks. I also do not factor commissions, they are just change and all they do is complicate the computations. I also do not include dividends as I do not keep track of them, but I see the account doing well. I base my calculations solely on value of the current stock compared to the purchase value.
Knowledge is contagious...Infect truth!
mwenza
#30 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:50:42 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
I beg to differ. Assume you hold 100 shares in counter A and 100,000 shares in counter B. If counter A depreciates by 100 percent while at the same time counter B appreciates by 100 percent, do you truly believe that the overall percentage increase is NIL as per your arithmetics? Hii ni hesabu ya wapi?
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
sparkly
#31 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:54:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
Afroblk wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
mwenza wrote:
Hii hesabu inanikumbusha ile ya bodmas tulifanya hapa Juzi...... Kweli hesabu sio rahisi!....How do you talk of overall percentage gains without factoring in quantities held in various counters? Na transaction commissions nayo?

Yep. He should consider the quantities...



For my computation and margin gains I do not include quantities for obvious reasons. I buy my stocks as chunks so always have one buying price. the basic calculations are not affected whether you trade 100 or 100,000 stocks. I also do not factor commissions, they are just change and all they do is complicate the computations. I also do not include dividends as I do not keep track of them, but I see the account doing well. I base my calculations solely on value of the current stock compared to the purchase value.



Commissions at nse are about 2.3%. Everytime you jump in and out of a stock, you lose close to 5%! Of the investment.


Dividends are primary return from stocks and their reinvestment the true source of wealth in stocks. Capital gains are just the sweetener. In a bear market you can even get 10% return from div.


Current prices give you paper returns, actualised when you sell, hence importance of considering dividends and commissions to calculate the real return.

Life is short. Live passionately.
S.Mutaga III
#32 Posted : Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:05:07 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 830
Anyone who ignores commissions,dividends and bonus shares when calculating return on investment is an outright fool...just too lazy and they are probably the worst investors of all time...I even factor in bank charges when receiving dividends and also the 5% withholding tax.I leave nothing to chance.
A successful man is not he who gets the best, it is he who makes the best from what he gets.
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