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CMC Motor in trouble, Again
muganda
#21 Posted : Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:18:44 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
@VituVingiSana, such a pity then JaguarLandRover and MAN trucks are not touched by CMC's public shows of uprightness. Rather than muddle through old/new money quandry, they chose to use the more objective measures of sales and brand equity.

Who am I then to purport to determine the better CEO, crook v/s saint, old v/s new. I opt to use P/E, ROE, book value etc. Sadly, Bill Lay's tenure when judged by these measures thus far shows @Robinhood's observation as correct.

Maybe in time his unique style will bear less bitter fruits.

VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 3:48:35 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,126
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
@VituVingiSana, such a pity then JaguarLandRover and MAN trucks are not touched by CMC's public shows of uprightness. Rather than muddle through old/new money quandry, they chose to use the more objective measures of sales and brand equity.

Who am I then to purport to determine the better CEO, crook v/s saint, old v/s new. I opt to use P/E, ROE, book value etc. Sadly, Bill Lay's tenure when judged by these measures thus far shows @Robinhood's observation as correct.

Maybe in time his unique style will bear less bitter fruits.

JLR has a right to choose who they want to go with but many have also castigated firms that do business with corrupt regimes e.g. sales by BAE to Tanzania, etc. The crooks [kiereini, muthoka, forster] should have admitted & quietly left the Board. That would have preserved CMC's business/image as well as allowed them an exit [sale of the shares] without the hullabaloo.
Look at the (taxpayer & shareholder) losses at NBK & KCB that have slowly been overcome over the past 10 years [with massive cash injections] due to massive corruption by the executives starting from michuki's & githunguri's days.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
muganda
#23 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 12:02:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
It is simply escapist @VVS to blame the war on Martin Forster/Kierini; even worse to equate CMC's recent prosperous past to the worst of NBK/KCB. Tact/silent coercion was an option well open to Bill Lay as the hero against his villains.

This disparaging of the record of former CEOs is a standard ruse to announce the reign of a new king. Quite fine only that the pressure for tangible results must soon after be addressed.

Quote:
The armies separated; and, it is said, King Pyrrhus of Epirus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders in the battle against the immeasurable Romans...

VituVingiSana
#24 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 4:31:01 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,126
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
It is simply escapist @VVS to blame the war on Martin Forster/Kierini; even worse to equate CMC's recent prosperous past to the worst of NBK/KCB. Tact/silent coercion was an option well open to Bill Lay as the hero against his villains.

This disparaging of the record of former CEOs is a standard ruse to announce the reign of a new king. Quite fine only that the pressure for tangible results must soon after be addressed.
Lay came in afterwards. The downdraft had started under Forster when the muthoka (Andy Forwarders) deal had started sucking the other CMC shareholders dry. The rot had started internally but it came to the fore [we thought the apple was 'ripe' but it was rotten] as the core was rotten.

This is the similar as seen in KCB, NBK or other firms where internal sweetheart deals/loans destroy other shareholders' value. The rot had started years ago but hidden from view. Huge earnings announced but with huge bad loans to politicians & friends of the 'government officials'.

See the story of Uchumi with the deals kirubi (Haco) did aka self-dealing. Similar. The worm ate all the goodies leaving the other shareholders with a shell.

KCB, NBK and Uchumi survived through a combination of cash infusions (Rights Issues & bailouts) & sweetheart deals (GoK accounts at KCB or NBK) that revived them. The appointment of (externally sourced) directors not related to the corrupt cabal also helped e.g George, Davidson, Oduor-Otieno, Marambii, Ciano that broke the stranglehold of the insiders.

Lay is a manager who was recruited by Kibe/Ndungu despite efforts by muthoka/kiereini/forster to keep control away from Kibe/Ndungu group. The fight is at the board or shareholder (ownership) level not at the management level.

Ask why haven't kiereini/muthoka backed off & let all shareholders know about the extra payments/compensation made to them WITHOUT BEING REPORTED TO THE OTHER SHAREHOLDERS IN THE ACCOUNTS/ANNUAL REPORTS?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
guru267
#25 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 8:51:09 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
These guys are definitely not going down without a fight!

www.businessdailyafrica....0/-/trjx6pz/-/index.html
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
dunkang
#26 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:13:07 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Quote:
Land Rover, Jaguar and Range Rover brands account for 30 per cent of CMC’s annual unit sales.

Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

essyk
#27 Posted : Sunday, December 09, 2012 9:24:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
.Pray
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Robinhood
#28 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 8:33:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
My point seems lost somewhere in this discussion. I am not saying that it is ok for officials to continue looting a publicly quoted company, nor am I blaming Mr. Lay for the woes of CMC. All I am saying is that in instances like this, going nuclear will at times have unintended consequences, like killing the very thing you are trying to save.
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
hisah
#29 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 10:35:48 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Robinhood wrote:
My point seems lost somewhere in this discussion. I am not saying that it is ok for officials to continue looting a publicly quoted company, nor am I blaming Mr. Lay for the woes of CMC. All I am saying is that in instances like this, going nuclear will at times have unintended consequences, like killing the very thing you are trying to save.

Going nuclear could be intentional if it hides ugly truths. E.g. Enron, Tyco enterprise corruption case studies show that if the rabbit hole risks exposure, the board commits suicide to bury the skeletons that usually span decades!
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
VituVingiSana
#30 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 12:02:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,126
Location: Nairobi
hisah wrote:
Robinhood wrote:
My point seems lost somewhere in this discussion. I am not saying that it is ok for officials to continue looting a publicly quoted company, nor am I blaming Mr. Lay for the woes of CMC. All I am saying is that in instances like this, going nuclear will at times have unintended consequences, like killing the very thing you are trying to save.

Going nuclear could be intentional if it hides ugly truths. E.g. Enron, Tyco enterprise corruption case studies show that if the rabbit hole risks exposure, the board commits suicide to bury the skeletons that usually span decades!
The 'old' board, the muthoka/forster/kiereini group went to great lengths to hide the theft. Muthoka attempted to become the chairman & shut down the debate. He tried to buy additional shares to out-vote the Kibe/Ndungu group. If they are clean then let the "Jersey" group explain the additional compensation (courtesy of over-billing) which was not reported in the Annual Reports. What about the alleged over-billing by Muthoka's Andy Forwarders? I understand that one of the directors (Ashok Shah of APA) refused to pay out for moi's stolen Range Rover because the Board/Management refused to report the theft to the police. It seems the theft was an inside job that implicated a member of the Management related to the senior management or Board.

All that Bill Lay did was take the "Jersey" file to Kibe/Ndungu. I wish all shareholders had a copy of the file to make their own decision on whether this was kosher.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
youcan'tstopusnow
#31 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 1:00:07 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Don't forget this. Hakuna pamba hapa:
http://www.businessdaily...-/10fskcqz/-/index.html
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
youcan'tstopusnow
#32 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 1:02:58 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Kwanini wrote:
CMC should be made a compulsory case study/ Exam paper for those long legged thigh flashing PR "experts"

GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
youcan'tstopusnow
#33 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 1:05:40 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
30 percent of sales! That's significant.
I hope hisah's words don't apply here.
hisah wrote:
Approx 95% of serious enterprise corruption cases end up in bankruptcy...

GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
youcan'tstopusnow
#34 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 1:32:17 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
And for how long will the CMA ban endure?


GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
muganda
#35 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 2:07:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
There's a chinese proverb that says Great doubts deep wisdom. Small doubts little wisdom. So let me be open to learning...

@VituVingiSana, please shed more light on this version of events:
The agency contract that sparked off CMC board war
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Don't forget this. Hakuna pamba hapa:
http://www.businessdaily...-/10fskcqz/-/index.html

Obi 1 Kanobi
#36 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 2:30:21 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
This company is going down. They are best served to try and market the nissan diesel (32 seater matatu) and the Ford & VW franchises more vigourously.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
dunkang
#37 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 4:56:10 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,818
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
Quote:
Motor dealer CMC Holdings has turned to the courts to stop Jaguar Land Rover from terminating its franchise with the troubled car dealer, citing breach of trust and goodwill by its business partner.

South Africa-based Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) threw CMC Motors into a crisis last Thursday with the announcement that it would transfer the rights to exclusively trade in Land Rover Defender, Jaguar and Range Rover brands to rival RMA Group.


http://www.businessdaily...0/-/trjx6pz/-/index.html
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

hisah
#38 Posted : Monday, December 10, 2012 6:50:57 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
Court halts Jaguar Land Rover from ending deal - http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/2cg0m6z/-/index.html

Quote:
“It is hereby ordered that an interim injunction be and is hereby granted restraining the respondent (JLR) either by itself, its agents, assigns, representatives, or otherwise howsoever from interfering with the exclusive distributorship agreement between the applicant (CMC) and the respondent…” read a part of the ruling from the Lady Justice Kamau.

The termination of the distributorship caught CMC’s management off-guard, terming the move ‘mischievous and unprocedural’.


I wonder who is mischievous comparing devils with devils... d'oh!
$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
VituVingiSana
#39 Posted : Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:10:22 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,126
Location: Nairobi
muganda wrote:
There's a chinese proverb that says Great doubts deep wisdom. Small doubts little wisdom. So let me be open to learning...

@VituVingiSana, please shed more light on this version of events:
The agency contract that sparked off CMC board war
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
Don't forget this. Hakuna pamba hapa:
http://www.businessdaily...-/10fskcqz/-/index.html

I am not familiar with the Pewin deal but it should be part of the investigation. If there is fraud surrounding it then Bill Lay [or any other folks in chaoots] should be fired AND prosecuted.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
FUNKY
#40 Posted : Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:46:31 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/30/2010
Posts: 1,635
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