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MATATU SRIKE
Impunity
#71 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:14:24 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/2/2009
Posts: 26,335
Location: Masada
alustaadh wrote:
d'oh! d'oh! d'oh! A little bird told me that the government is going to use these traffic laws to force private motorists from their 'proboxes' back into trains and buses.....chekeni tuu watu wa matatu, lakini mukumbuke, wembe ni huo huo. kwahivyo, wekeni vichwa vyenyu maji. It is going to be DAMNED EXPENSSIVE to drive yourself around. Then you will understand why professors in Europe commute to work.


Does these rules apply to cyclists?
I see mass migration to black mamba.
Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.

eduu
#72 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:34:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 351
The Matatu strike is suppossedly on tomorrow. This time they will also target the guys with personal cars.
Brace yourselves, it might be rough kesho.
mawinder
#73 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:39:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Kratos wrote:
mawinder wrote:
Kratos wrote:
I fully support the need for change in our road usage rules and etiquette but this new laws are just ridiculous.
Case in point
Careless driving or driving without regard to other road users - Fine not exceeding one hundred thousand shillings (Kshs.100,000)
So if a corrupt policeman/woman decides that you are driving carelessly what evidence do both of you present to the court? Do you think you will get witnesses to back you up against trumped up charges?
Lets get realistic,
1. Most vehicles on the roads are on loan so where will the the guy get cash to pay? Take another loan to service the trumped up charges? Which is easier part with 5k to "pay" for the charges or go to court and risk 100k fine?
2. Which employer will give you time to be attending traffic court cases
3. Are hefty fines and penalties going to make the police less corrupt? Most of this laws are not new, so what will suddenly jolt the police into proper action?

To me this laws were not well thought out. We need a complete overhaul of the traffic system to cover all processes not just on the road user end.
We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Countries like UAE have extremely successful traffic laws and its not because of hefty fines. No police there will chase you around nor will the courts come looking for you for a traffic offense. You will present yourself whether you like it or not.

It is the prosecution to prove your guilt by calling witnesses and adducing witnesses.in the absence of that,you are acquitted.Do NOT plead guity.The new fines call for you to always have someone to secure you on bond or cash bail,a good advocate and you win the case and sue the state for damages.


In this case the corrupt police officer whom you refused to bribe is his own witness. Wouldn't this mean its his testimony verses yours.

kratos,you get a good advocate and you are sorted.MOST of the cops have never seen the traffic act and they will not leave the road to go to testify in court.The charge sheet will even be defective and you will be released on that basis.you can even knock on the judiciary's doors if you know people.
murchr
#74 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:39:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Reli tu ndio ita tame hawa watu
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Mukiri
#75 Posted : Sunday, December 02, 2012 10:56:45 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/11/2012
Posts: 5,222
Kratos wrote:
I fully support the need for change in our road usage rules and etiquette but this new laws are just ridiculous.
Case in point
Careless driving or driving without regard to other road users - Fine not exceeding one hundred thousand shillings (Kshs.100,000)
So if a corrupt policeman/woman decides that you are driving carelessly what evidence do both of you present to the court? Do you think you will get witnesses to back you up against trumped up charges?
Lets get realistic,
1. Most vehicles on the roads are on loan so where will the the guy get cash to pay? Take another loan to service the trumped up charges? Which is easier part with 5k to "pay" for the charges or go to court and risk 100k fine?
2. Which employer will give you time to be attending traffic court cases
3. Are hefty fines and penalties going to make the police less corrupt? Most of this laws are not new, so what will suddenly jolt the police into proper action?

To me this laws were not well thought out. We need a complete overhaul of the traffic system to cover all processes not just on the road user end.
We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Countries like UAE have extremely successful traffic laws and its not because of hefty fines. No police there will chase you around nor will the courts come looking for you for a traffic offense. You will present yourself whether you like it or not.


UAE has taken good care of their cops, you can't dare bribe them (maybe can't even afford) and they command alot of respect. Ebu go to Muraqqabat(where drunk Kenyans are taken) car park and see what they drive.

Its disheartening to see the squalor that our mboys and girls live in. Why don't they minimize matters aviation in remand/prisons by taking the hooligans to quarries to make decent shelter material, as a start?

Proverbs 19:21
Lolest!
#76 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 7:36:07 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
This law was introduced by Jakoyo Midiwo, was passed by 7 MPs in 30mins-Sunday Nation...i wonder how MPs can pass a bill in 30mins
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
lovenuffs
#77 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 7:52:50 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 7/9/2012
Posts: 63
Mukiri wrote:
Kratos wrote:
I fully support the need for change in our road usage rules and etiquette but this new laws are just ridiculous.
Case in point
Careless driving or driving without regard to other road users - Fine not exceeding one hundred thousand shillings (Kshs.100,000)
So if a corrupt policeman/woman decides that you are driving carelessly what evidence do both of you present to the court? Do you think you will get witnesses to back you up against trumped up charges?
Lets get realistic,
1. Most vehicles on the roads are on loan so where will the the guy get cash to pay? Take another loan to service the trumped up charges? Which is easier part with 5k to "pay" for the charges or go to court and risk 100k fine?
2. Which employer will give you time to be attending traffic court cases
3. Are hefty fines and penalties going to make the police less corrupt? Most of this laws are not new, so what will suddenly jolt the police into proper action?

To me this laws were not well thought out. We need a complete overhaul of the traffic system to cover all processes not just on the road user end.
We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Countries like UAE have extremely successful traffic laws and its not because of hefty fines. No police there will chase you around nor will the courts come looking for you for a traffic offense. You will present yourself whether you like it or not.


UAE has taken good care of their cops, you can't dare bribe them (maybe can't even afford) and they command alot of respect. Ebu go to Muraqqabat(where drunk Kenyans are taken) car park and see what they drive.

Its disheartening to see the squalor that our mboys and girls live in. Why don't they minimize matters aviation in remand/prisons by taking the hooligans to quarries to make decent shelter material, as a start?




Lawrence Kohlberg's three levels of Morality states:

Level 1- Preconcentional morality, x-terised by Individualism, individuals think only of themselves. Thats where the kenyan drivers are.

Level 2- conventional morality, x-terised by maintaining social order and following rules simply because they are rules. Thats where the UAE driver is.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.
Speculz
#78 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 8:14:50 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/6/2011
Posts: 391
Location: Nairobi
and it continues , the only logical way would be to automate most of the process , e.g speed cameras etc , that way interaction with the cop is at a minimum , and does this law mean that those cops wearing the white caps are doing so illegally as the department no longer exists??
"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Stephen Wright
maka
#79 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 9:57:03 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
This law was introduced by Jakoyo Midiwo, was passed by 7 MPs in 30mins-Sunday Nation...i wonder how MPs can pass a bill in 30mins

...do kenyans surely take note of such things,the mps know what matters are going to be voted for beforehand etc they dont appear in parliament then sahi they start making noise jana i had Waititu saying that "hiyo sheria ya matatu irudishwe jikoni" i was saddened Sad
possunt quia posse videntur
Elder
#80 Posted : Monday, December 03, 2012 10:22:34 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/7/2010
Posts: 2,148
Location: elderville
Kratos wrote:
I fully support the need for change in our road usage rules and etiquette but this new laws are just ridiculous.

Agree.

Kratos wrote:
I fully support the need for change in our road usage rules and etiquette but this new laws are just ridiculous.
Case in point
Careless driving or driving without regard to other road users - Fine not exceeding one hundred thousand shillings (Kshs.100,000)
So if a corrupt policeman/woman decides that you are driving carelessly what evidence do both of you present to the court? Do you think you will get witnesses to back you up against trumped up charges?

Most cases of careless or reckless driving would involve more than one party. So witnesses would not be limited to the policeman/woman alone.

Kratos wrote:

Lets get realistic,
1. Most vehicles on the roads are on loan so where will the the guy get cash to pay? Take another loan to service the trumped up charges? Which is easier part with 5k to "pay" for the charges or go to court and risk 100k fine?

The fine is maximum. So in as much as the 'early adopter' offenders would probably get hit with the maximum fines nothing would stop the Magistrates from fining one say 5k based on the mitigating circumstances. Of course it would also be an avenue for Magistrates to 'eat'. In Kenya people always find ways to 'eat'.

Kratos wrote:

2. Which employer will give you time to be attending traffic court cases

Are you saying that it is okay to commit traffic offences and get away with it without inconveniences like defending yourself in court if you are innocent? And if guilty you would rather just pay a reasonable fine and life continues? You know minor things like careless driving, reckless driving, speeding, driving under the influence, etc actually lead to death or serious bodily harm in many instances? Unfortunately very few drivers on our roads realise what a dangerous thing they are trusted to be in charge of when licensed to drive on our roads.

Kratos wrote:
3. Are hefty fines and penalties going to make the police less corrupt?

Unfortunately not. Our law makers are unfortunately clueless. In fact now with every policeman mandated to enforce the Traffic Act it would only increase.

Kratos wrote:

To me this laws were not well thought out. We need a complete overhaul of the traffic system to cover all processes not just on the road user end.
We do not need to reinvent the wheel. Countries like UAE have extremely successful traffic laws and its not because of hefty fines. No police there will chase you around nor will the courts come looking for you for a traffic offense. You will present yourself whether you like it or not.

Totally agree. And while at it they should also enforce the law on pedestrians.

He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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