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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@liv, Gema-Kalenjin alliance is the panacea to the endless ethnic violence in the rift? Then I would rather they go separate. The voter must not feel threatened while making his choice.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2012 Posts: 5,222
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@Liv, a scale with alleged tribalism on one side and impunity on the other, I'd rather eradicate impunity (PS Not our local entertainer). That anyone tainted with any criminal wrongdoing faces the full force of the law, without any avenue of voiding the same, should be enough to keep any tribalist in check.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/11/2009 Posts: 1,223
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Satirical or not, during one of the appearances at the Bench (capital talk), Mutahi Ngunyi said that if ICC confirms the two, they will win the presidency. I think they may win and i won't be surprised. Their biggest competitor is RAILA and the more he talks about ICC the more the followers of the two are convinced that he fixed the two. The only thing that can block the two from winning is the courts if they quote chapter 6. History will not remember you for your IQ. It will remember you for what you did. “Genius is 1 percent inspiration, 99 percent perspiration.” Thomas Edison
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/14/2006 Posts: 1,311
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L&G,
Fact 1: Tribal differences and hatred are caused by the political leaders in Kenya for political reasons. All the tribal crashes have actually occurred around election time... after people were incited by their leaders.
If these same leaders can unite and show they can work together, the opposite will happen. People will feel less hatred. So I guess if URP and TNA are working together, this will have a better effect.... than when these 2 parties are in opposing camps. If WR was able to convince most of the Kalenjins to vote NO for such an important document as the constitution, while most of the country was voting YES.... surely he can convince most Kalenjins that they can live peacefully with the Kikuyu.... and this applies to Uhuru for Gema too.
Fact 2: Both UK and WR have a higher following particularly from their communities as a result of the ICC cases. Most of the people from their communities now support them more. Why? Most of them have been convinced that ICC is not about justice but a political court.
They do not see ICC as a tool of ending impunity but as a tool being used by some forces for political reasons.
Most of us in the middle class may have different thoughts/ views. But sadly our votes (middle class) in Kenya are not more than 2 million (I am being optimistic here) in my estimation.
As things stand now...I have come to ACCEPT that one of the following (RAO, UK, MUDVD) will be the next president of Kenya.... i.e. if something dramatic like a court decision does not result in a major political realignments. Despite their issues, shortcomings, etc ...these men have significant following in Kenya and a big chance of winning. The earlier we accept this however we hate or dislike any of them.... the more we will be objective in our discussions here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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@liv, I dont buy the notion that leaders are solely to blame for violence during elections. The ordinary man has deep seated hatred and is just looking for an excuse to hack his neighbour. But I agree with you on one thing. We need to reconcile ourselves to the possibility that WR, RAO, SKM, UMK, WMM or someone else could just be Kenyan CEO next year. And yes, akina Uhuruto gained support in their home areas after indictment even without campaigning! Maybe its empathy!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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If there are going to be any elections, then it follows that one of the contestants will be president.
So far, the ICC suspects have done their best to gather their respective tribes around them for support. Isn't this expected?
The suspects are using their political forces strategically, but what about the citizen?
The events after the last elections left no doubt that the citizen has absolutely no power and political strategy.
@liv says that the middle class has a million votes only, so, it has insignificant power. Is this really true? What about knowledge and vision?
Does the middle class understand its role in shaping Kenya's political future?
I am certain that not even PK will be able to create employment for the youth. But concerted effort by the middle class can create employment, mobilize the under class, and negotiate with the politicians and even with other nation states.
The citizen doesn't have to be as powerless as you suppose.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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tycho wrote:If there are going to be any elections, then it follows that one of the contestants will be president.
So far, the ICC suspects have done their best to gather their respective tribes around them for support. Isn't this expected?
The suspects are using their political forces strategically, but what about the citizen?
The events after the last elections left no doubt that the citizen has absolutely no power and political strategy.
@liv says that the middle class has a million votes only, so, it has insignificant power. Is this really true? What about knowledge and vision?
Does the middle class understand its role in shaping Kenya's political future?
I am certain that not even PK will be able to create employment for the youth. But concerted effort by the middle class can create employment, mobilize the under class, and negotiate with the politicians and even with other nation states.
The citizen doesn't have to be as powerless as you suppose. The problem with most of the middle class you talking about,they still use their hearts rather than their minds. A case in point is the believe that Kenya doesn't need the West because of neo-colonialism, fronting UK as the man to liberate us,yet,he's surrounded himself with the same non-blacks. Isn't that taking Kenyans for fools?including that middle class? Secondly,some middle class just sit on the fence,they'll never say whom they support, but will just yap. Thirdly,the middle class needs a gov't that creates the right environment for business. The middle class should be leading from the front,enlightening the masses,what trade sanctions and withdrawal of aid does to a country.The effects of electing a leader who can lead us to that path,and offering alternative. For me,PK! PK! PK!
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/27/2011 Posts: 301 Location: Nairobi
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Liv wrote:
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ICC is not just about justice but a tool for Western Countries to influence leadership of mainly African and other 3rd world countries and protection of their interests.
This right here is a very naive mentality. Did they influence us to chop up one another? Is it so difficult to comprehend that the parliamentarians AND NOT the citizens voted to have these cases sent to the Hague at their own volition? Some of those suspects are on public record saying that they chose to have the cases handled at the Hague? so why is it then a surprise that the cases ended up in the Hague and now we want to bring down the entire country to "bring" back the cases to home courts? This just shows you that these leaders are extremely selfish and attend to matters in a foolish way, that is why we need to move majority of them from public office otherwise they will continue making very detrimental decisions that may as well collapse this country.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/24/2009 Posts: 5,909 Location: Nairobi
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eboomerang wrote:Liv wrote:
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ICC is not just about justice but a tool for Western Countries to influence leadership of mainly African and other 3rd world countries and protection of their interests.
This right here is a very naive mentality. Did they influence us to chop up one another? Is it so difficult to comprehend that the parliamentarians AND NOT the citizens voted to have these cases sent to the Hague at their own volition? Some of those suspects are on public record that they chose to have the case handled at the Hague? This just shows you that these leaders are extremely selfish and attend to matters in a foolish way, that is why we need to move majority of them from public office otherwise they will continue making very detrimental decisions that may as well collapse this country. LIKE!
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/18/2011 Posts: 459
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Shindwe. Some people are campaigning by spreading fear, I would never wish this for any country just because of voting in a certain way.
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