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Africans problems due to low inherent intelligence
Charley
#21 Posted : Sunday, May 31, 2009 9:49:00 PM
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Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 27
@all- thanks; ALL contributions teach me a thing or two and I appreciate.
Now,my intention in pasting the article was to initiate deep introspection; about our African constraints (such as the perception by other races that we are of low intelligence),past lessons and if and why we do not or cannot learn from them; and future actions the Africans need to take to remain a viable people in this highly competitive modern global culture.
To begin with I am a Kenyan in toto,living and working in Nairobi on a permanent basis; but with the privilege of working on and off in the developed world. Please don&rsquo;t lecture this 'village hero' about African values tafadhali! The breakdown of which I am very familiar!
Because we must have the correct perspective,I will rebut the article I pasted (recall it was NOT my article but I used it as a trigger (sorry!). The primary rebuttal is this; Intelligence is a quantitative trait (a trait that is determined by several genes with small effects). The Bell Curve is a distribution of such a trait in a subpopulation tested. However such a trait is very environment and subpopulation specific therefore it just defines the subpopulation it was tested on and NOT the wider population (because a component called heritability is environment dependent and defines such quantitative traits). In short the correct way of analyzing IQ would be to breed individuals in an identical environment and estimate their IQ,obviously impossible in human subjects.
@Skay thanks. I hope you are familiar with the current universally accepted evolutionary biology 'Modern Out of Africa' hypothesis,where we Africans are pleisiomorphic to the rest of the races (figure out what that means!!). I have a copy of Jareds 'Germs,guns and steel' that I am about to embark on.
My critical point; we need to rise as a people &ndash; accept our shortcomings and build on our strengths. However,I currently have this great overwhelming fear that we will (or cannot) not do this,both now and in the future. Hence the reason why I am only left asking WHY&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;&hellip;&hellip; I hope I am wrong,but I fear I am right.
Tokyo
#22 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 4:02:00 AM
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Joined: 10/9/2006
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genes+environment= intelligence.


work to prosper
simonkabz
#23 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 6:09:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Wow,a lovely discussion....why has africa remained backward as the asians accelerate towards the modern world? Do we blame the 'time warp trap'? Going by what africans have done to Africa,its increasingly hard to imagine africans (read black) are not daft! Again,indians in our schools do better than most 'nyeuthi's,does it mean they simply study harder? All the same,its gud to note asians dnt seem to do too well in sports/entertainment/creative arts either..... Well,it may not be coz of low IQ,bt just wot is our problem?

Everyone for himself but mtibe for us all
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
aemathenge
#24 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 10:18:00 AM
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Joined: 10/18/2008
Posts: 3,434
Location: Kerugoya
My,my. Very interesting topic. Where do you fall if I may ask? 1 The group that believes something is wrong and is doing something about it. 2. The group that wishes to hide its head in the sand and resort to abusing Saint Charley. Personally,I wish to be in group 1 with Mundu Wa Thi. We have a situation and we must do something about,now. We have a onetime opportunity in the fibre optic. Let us put in our own content or will shall forever be in the lowest 'IO'.

Live hard,die hard.
skjay
#25 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 10:52:00 AM
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Joined: 4/28/2008
Posts: 36
Yes Charley,I see you've been doing some historical reading and coming up with vitisho terms such as pleisiomorphic (derived from pleistocene I believe - a period between the ice age and about 10,000 yrs ago),ha-ha.

But seriously,there is no doubt that Africa (esp. sub-Sahara Africa) is behind in terms of modernity. My argument is that being modern (and perceived to be intelligent) has nothing to do with race (are we really genetically different?) but rather priorities (which can be seen and understood when you look at history).

@MV Ufanisi had a very refreshing way of extrapolating this theory so I won't really go into it. After all,if the explanation is racial,that blacks are genetically inferior,how do you explain people like Dr. Ben Carson (one of the most prominent neurosurgeons alive?). Blacks in the US generally perform poorly in IQ test scores due to a history of denied opportunities and subsequent different priorities in life (such as surviving) other than education. Racial segregation and discrimination lasted all the way to the 1960s! But slowly,those blacks are catching up,given a good environment at home/neighbourhood and parents that drive home the importance of education (such as Dr. Carson's mother). You should read his book,Think Big,and you will realize his incredible intelligence has to do with how he was brought up (environment),not his genes (btw,he might have turned out to have been some low-IQ crack-pusher were it not for his mother's type of upbringing). Btw,she dropped out of school in 3rd grade! So I doubt his intelligence was inherited from her.

So,why is it that we don't have incredible public transport systems and have local companies competing with Boeing and Airbus? Priorities. Look at Rwanda. Those people got their priorities right after almost decimating themselves. They are now developing very quickly and if not distracted,will soon be an African Lion (like the Asian Tigers). Even the US,Japan and Western Europe have developed astronomically only within the last century,after devastating wars.

So,do we need a devastating civil so we can get things (tribalism,corruption etc) off our chests and concentrate on development? Probably. Probably not. Mutahi Ngunyi had a good piece in yesterday's Sunday Nation. He says President Kagame came to us as a prophet,and that the moral of his prophecy can be summarized as follows: '... a great civilization is created when a people first destroy themselves from within'. But that was the story of Rwanda; Kenya can do it differently.

Our leaders are not Nationalists,rather selfish tribal chieftains. It is why they won’t let go of power,even if it might destroy the country. Why they won't endorse a new constitution,unless a powerful position for themselves is provided for in the draft.

But there is hope. We are discussing this. Martha Karua's resignation may have been brushed aside as insignificant. It is of historic significant to me if she did it on genuine moral grounds. We need to look out for moral leaders with priorities to better the lives of our people. I believe we already have them (possibly even within the current parliament),we just need to identify them.

Question is,are we ready to drop our prejudicial tribalist tendencies,or we need to slaughter each other first for us to become one of Africa's lions?
jerry
#26 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 1:40:00 PM
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Joined: 9/29/2006
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@Obi. I never referred to sports anywhere in my contribution. All the same,the debate is taking a very healthy angle as was intended.

Hotels will always serve the fruits/vegs of the reason. In stocks ur duty as a trader is to identify the HOTshare of the season.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity.
Obi 1 Kanobi
#27 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 3:58:00 PM
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Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
My bad,@Jerry,Apologies. It was masukuma not you



I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Ric dees
#28 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 3:59:00 PM
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Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 632
@ Charley

Almost missed this and i tell you what,i can see where you going with this one..and i might concur in some aspects...

I will try and sum up comparatively Intelligence and behaviour as exhibited between Black Africans,Whites and Asians...

As their IQ map of the world illustrates,the average IQ for all countries is 90 Less than one in five countries has national IQs equal or near the British norm of 100. Almost half the countries have national IQs of 90 or less.

If iQ and the wealth of nations is correct that an average IQ of 90 forms the threshold for a technological economy this poses a serious problem.

But can that African 70 average IQ be real? It is indeed extremely low,the lowest found in any comparable area. This has caused many to dismiss the finding.

An IQ of 70 suggests mental retardation at least it would in the White populations of Europe,North America,Australia and New Zealand. There it would frequently be associated with dysfunctional social behavior and visible deficiencies.

This is because,as Arthur Jensenn pointed out in his book,The g Factor retardation in Whites is often the result of a single gene or chromosomal anomaly,which also causes physical abnormalities and mechanical deficiencies effecting motor or speech skills. But,clearly,these abnormalities and deficiencies are not seen in the bulk of the black population of Sub-Saharan Africa.

What&rsquo;s going on?

One way to think about an African IQ of 70 is in terms of 'mental age'&mdash;that is,a person&rsquo;s mental age in relation to his chronological age. Nowadays,standard scores based on the normal distribution (or 'bell curve') have replaced the concept of mental age. But it still provides a way to understand differences.

An average IQ of 100 is set to a mental age of 16. Adult Whites,then,have an average mental age of 16,with a normal range (plus or minus one standard deviation) of from less than 14 years to over 18 years.

African Americanss average about 25% European ancestry and have an IQ of 85,which is equivalent to a mental age of nearly 14,with a range of from 11 to 16 years.

An IQ of 70 in adults,then,is equivalent to a mental age of about 11 years. This would make the normal range of mental ages found in Africa to be from less than 9 years to almost 14 years.

Eleven-year-olds,of course,are not retarded. They can drive,build houses,and work in factories if supervised properly. Eleven-year-olds can even wage war and do so in many parts of the world.

Still,the low African IQ of 70 remains hard for many to accept. One reason for the disbelief: Africans&mdash;and African Americans&mdash;display high levels of social competence. They are outgoing,talkative,sociable,warm,and friendly. Psychometrically speaking,they score high on the Extraversion personality dimension. They are also much less anxious,shy,and fearful than Whites&mdash;they are low in the Neuroticism dimension. This combination of high Extraversion and low Neuroticism results in a socially dominant personality profile.

It is this 'winning personality' among Blacks,I believe,that makes it hard for so many to accept the validity of their failing tests of abstract reasoning ability.

A typical academic story comes from professors who,on first exposure to African students,express their delight in the high levels of classroom performance. The students are described as engaged,offering lively opinions,and giving a clear impression of brightness. Only when the students took objectively measured essay or multiple-choice examinations did it become painfully obvious to even the most well-wishing faculty members that their grasp of abstract material failed to live up to their classroom rhetoric.

Temperamental differences,measured objectively by activity recorders attached to arms and legs,show up in babies. African babies are more active sooner and develop earlier than White babies who,in turn,are more active than East Asian babies. Motor behavior is a highly stable individual difference variable. Even among Whites,activity level measured during free play shows highly significant negative correlations with IQ: more restrained children average higher intellects.

Parallel results are found in four- to six-year-olds using teacher ratings. One study carried out in Quebec,Canada,had teachers rate immigrant children in French language preschools. The teachers reported more outgoing temperament among children of African descent than among those of European descent,and especially than in those of East Asian descent.

The racial differences in temperament are also found on standardized personality tests. Blacks consistently score more outgoing,active,socially dominant,and impulsive than do Whites,while Whites consistently score more active and socially dominant than do East Asians.

It may be surprising to learn that Blacks also have higher self-esteem than Whites and East Asians. This is true even when Blacks are poorer and less educated. In one large study of 11- to 16-year-olds,Blacks rated themselves as more attractive than did Whites. Blacks also rated themselves higher in reading,science and social studies (but not in mathematics).

The Blacks said this even though they knew they had lower actual academic achievement scores than White children.

In contrast,East Asian students,even though they score higher in academic achievement than Whites,often score lower in self-esteem.

What I am suggesting then,is that Blacks have a self-assured 'bright' talkative,personality,which leads many people to over-estimate their abstract reasoning ability. East Asians provide a 'compare and contrast' case study with people under-estimating their IQ because of their quietness and otherwise 'subdued' personality profile. East Asians who average higher than Whites on IQ tests (107 versus 100) have often been described to me as seeming 'dull and uncreative' compared to Whites,achieving what they do only through unimaginative rote learning,imitation,and memorization.

The relative restraint of East Asians contrasted with the noisiness of Africans is apparent to anyone visiting their home continents. When the New York Yankees played the first game of the 2004 baseball season before a packed stadium in Tokyo,Japan,the announcers noted how very much quieter the crowd was than those at games in the U.S. But it was a more tranquil disposition,not a lack of interest in the game,which hushed the stands.

Because of the time difference,people all over Japan regularly get up at two in the morning to view games broadcast from the U.S. featuring American teams which include Japanese born stars.

Like any other group,Whites look upon themselves as the norm. Whites tend not to speak up if they don&rsquo;t know the answer to a question. Nor do they like to intrude on the privacy of others. They erroneously assume that,because Africans are talkative,they must know what they are talking about.

The flipside is the reticence and reserve of East Asians. In the realm of behavior,English traditionally uses the same term,'dumb,' both for being unable to speak and for being stupid or silly (though both usages are quite Politically Incorrect these days). In the case of the average mental ability of East Asians,dumb is hardly dumber!

The converse is that the greater talkativeness of Blacks does not indicate brightness&mdash;it often masks a low ability to reason abstractly.

Disclaimer.This is a compliation of different books i have read and my observations on the same..and on a parting note i have a question..

WHY DO AFRICANS ACKNOWLEDGE EACH OTHER BY THEIR DIFFERENCES FIRST?


Heart is what separates the good from the great - Micheal Jordan.

The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
caesar
#29 Posted : Monday, June 01, 2009 5:01:00 PM
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Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 149
Academic intelligence comes reading many books practising more math,parenting and exposure.

Ones color of the skin says nothing about their IQ. Bigots!
Charley
#30 Posted : Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:02:00 AM
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Joined: 9/18/2008
Posts: 27
I salute all you SKerians who took my gauntlet and responded with decorum and intelligent,healthy debate. I feel I have said as much as I wished to and hope that may be there will be some paradigm shift in this group because; if an opinion group such as SK members cannot lead the National reconciliation,remedial and developmentaleffort; then we are done for (and unfortunately,I believe this (the latter) to be the case).
Just one more of my two cents worth&hellip;&hellip;.
@Ceasar scientific measures of IQ put 60% (so called heritability at 0.6) of the trait as contributed by genetic factors and 40% environmental. And with all due respect who is a bigger (or sorrier) bigot? A white man who perceives Africans as of low intelligence OR a kalenjin who slashes a kikuyu to death and a kikuyu who retaliates by slashing a luo (yes,a LUO!) for no other reason other than their tribesmates' struggle over a supposedly democratic presidential seat&hellip;.and a society that looks the other way and learns absolutely nothing from that!
However,my dilemma remains. The reality seems to be that I must accept to live with this dilemma (the sins of our ancestors and our very own sins&hellip;. wether they may be genetic or environmental!). I must live my own life and ameliorate my sadness and loss in some way. I must no longer have any positive expectations from my people,my country and my continent. Come 2012,we will not remember the lessons of 2007; we will go tooth,nail and machete for our tribesmates (wether we end up as perpetual IDPs or not will be immaterial!); One candidate may win and become nyayo3 and come 2017 &ndash; he will remember 2007 and will know he can 'win irrespective' as precedence is in place. If the other candidate wins he will be a bitter man; who will remember his 'stolen election of 2007' and come 2017?.........and ad infinitum the Kenyan and by extension the African story will continue&hellip;. Sad,very sad,but very real.
I recently taught American University kids (99% white; 1% others1%African/African-American)); and they looked at me with disbelief! And I pummeled them with knowledge to submission; not only was I doing it for myself but for my people (Africans); the only African student congratulated me,informing me his classmates admitted that I delivered. I was elated for myself,Kenya and Africa! Victory I thought&hellip;. until a white student came to me and commented 'you are different' &ndash; suddenly,I felt hollow victory,sadness and a sense of loss 'yes,in his perception the lesson learnt was not that Africans were at their level but that 'I was different'. And I remembered my transatlantic flight,and an Indian fellow who requested to be moved from between me and an African - American to a sit just a row behind me between two whites; and I looked stoically ahead and took it in; a burden I carried from my ancestors,and my current generation (I am not talking colour here but the global disrespect for a perpetually underachieving African people and continent!)
And back home post 2007 I was no longer socializing with my colleagues of the other tribes as we once so freely did (indeed I lost some friends thanks to 2007 and my incessant argument for justice and fairness!). And I am caught between a rock and a hard place. And I feel I can no longer preach the virtues of togetherness; and the fact that a kikuyu,luo and kalenjin bleed when cut; and love; and have mothers,sisters,brothers and fathers like all of us &ndash; because to do so will be a waste of time. As Kenya is chopped up into innumerable districts; and Kenyans cry for majimbo (in a country only the size of Texas!),and the coastal people want the port; the luos the lake; the kikuyus the treasury &ndash; I am reduced to asking why,why and why?&hellip;&hellip;. This is now the lot of my life; and undoubtedly that of some Kenyans who truly and honestly thought Kenya was headed in the right direction. A mirage that was&hellip;&hellip;..
ali
#31 Posted : Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:34:00 AM
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stop it this discussion you guys


Jesus,make me a blessing to my family and my country Kenya
For in him (Jesus) we live and move and have our being-Acts 17:28
Tokyo
#32 Posted : Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:45:00 AM
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Joined: 10/9/2006
Posts: 1,502
I remember hearing an average Black African is equal to an average 14yr Japanese.Was angry but with time I concluded its the bitter truth.
work to prosper
kingfisher
#33 Posted : Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:52:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/9/2008
Posts: 2,824
@charley,try this......

If 2 cats catch 2 mice in 2 days,how many do 5 cats catch in 10 days?

Assuming you get the answer to this question right,what meaning would it have on your IQ???

Huu mjandara ni bure na matuzi kwa akili yangu!!

If you have money that you expect to start using in five years,it now belongs in stocks.
When I have money, I get rid of it quickly, lest it find a way into my heart.
Surealligator
#34 Posted : Monday, October 18, 2010 9:11:45 PM
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Joined: 6/27/2008
Posts: 709
Location: Velayat-e Faryab
Mainat wrote:
Charley-interesting source of info you got there. Are you black african btw? Does this stuff define your mother and father?

In any case,please read a bit of History. Even headline stuff going back the last 2,000 yrs will be fine.

Tx skjay- you saved me from writing a lengthy piece.

www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com


@All

Am only bookmarking this slot as it is the last one on the page. But boy, this is the kind of stuff I love. It opens up my mind, reminds me that all that I was supposed to think seriously about has been thought and soughted out by some mediaval character and am supposed to improve on it. Charley, thanks for starting it, we need to sit down and have a drink over it. If Rick dees was talking about this, am for it hook and sinker.

Note: I never wake up to reply to stuff here either beyond 6pm or over the weekends cauze I value quality family time but wife tonight decided to try a viceroy and she's gone caput.

So am getting inventive and trying to keep myself busy as I prepare something to eat. But I wont repeat this again. I promise. We are in a strange land and psyching my sleep clock is not working. So, I thought wazua can do the wonders only to reactivate this link which I had bookmarked but forgotten about and its getting me thinking. Charley, we must meet.
Go overdrive in purchasing the goods when there's blood on the streets, expecially if the blood is your own
Cardinal
#35 Posted : Tuesday, October 19, 2010 10:04:57 AM
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Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 266
this thing also puzzles me
kiterunner
#36 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:35:07 PM
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Location: Nairobi
amazing thread on Wazua on thoughts that have occupied my mide recently. Its pleasing to know that others have asked these questions before. We all agree that intelligence in to a large extent inherited. To cure African problems we should identify the 'gifted' and give them a chance to make a difference in centres of excellence in all spheres of life. That way we will redeem the burdens of the so called 'dark continent'
our goals are best achieved indirectly
masukuma
#37 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2011 10:36:56 PM
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Joined: 10/4/2006
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its the case of setting an exam and doing it - most of these IQ test are set by white men. Anyway...WHO CARES? I am yet to meet someone (White or not) who i think has higher intelligence than I do (i currently work in asia)...tembea uone maajabu ya Afghanistan.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Nabwire
#38 Posted : Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:03:14 AM
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Joined: 7/22/2011
Posts: 1,325
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. The problem is the African has been duped into believing that he must defend his intelligence or lack thereof. Once you fall into this trap, it is downhill. Learn from the Asians, they never try to justify anything, they just keep going. It is obviously untrue that Africans are intellectually inferior, please travel to the backwater places of the US (ushago) you will realize that the Pareto principle is real. Only about 20% of White people have done anything of significance to put their country ahead, the other 80% are just freeloaders and they are usually the ones who will insist that whites are more intelligent. Like someone said, slavery gave them a huge boost ( I never thought about the option of our ancestors enslaving whites, maybe we are just civilized...hmmm)IQ is only judged at a personal level and you have to allow for environmental factors. Also notice that the IQ given is of Africans in rural areas, then that of African Americans is of those at black colleges, why didnt they measure IQ of a black person and white person in a great school? We all know Obama was at the top of his class at Harvard, ama you'll argue that was his white side scoring the points? Remember its his dad who was an Economist, not his mother. Anyways great debate.
kiterunner
#39 Posted : Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:29:24 AM
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Joined: 7/9/2011
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Location: Nairobi
To an extent we all agree intelligence to some extent is a quantifiable trait that is heritable and can also be nurtured by environment. We also know that a minor subset of any population is more intelligent than most people. So it is plausible that it COULD be higher in some populations. It doesnt matter how you measure it whether by IQ or any other test (The reliability of using IQ tests as a measure of intelligence has its bias and should take into account the culture and background) So this IQ theory CLAIMS that whites have a higher IQ than blacks in the population. Why is it so hard to TEST this? We can all pull anecdotal evidence of some very smart Africans we know or have read but I am afraid it doesnt really help the argument.
Africa has several problems a majority of which are no-brainers. The rest of the world also went through the phase we are at now in the past and it ll surely pass for Africa too. I wouldnt call asking these questions mental slavery at all, its just a people trying to understand why the world is the way it is.
our goals are best achieved indirectly
masukuma
#40 Posted : Sunday, October 30, 2011 1:20:51 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Nabwire wrote:
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery. The problem is the African has been duped into believing that he must defend his intelligence or lack thereof. Once you fall into this trap, it is downhill. Learn from the Asians, they never try to justify anything, they just keep going. It is obviously untrue that Africans are intellectually inferior, please travel to the backwater places of the US (ushago) you will realize that the Pareto principle is real. Only about 20% of White people have done anything of significance to put their country ahead, the other 80% are just freeloaders and they are usually the ones who will insist that whites are more intelligent. Like someone said, slavery gave them a huge boost ( I never thought about the option of our ancestors enslaving whites, maybe we are just civilized...hmmm)IQ is only judged at a personal level and you have to allow for environmental factors. Also notice that the IQ given is of Africans in rural areas, then that of African Americans is of those at black colleges, why didnt they measure IQ of a black person and white person in a great school? We all know Obama was at the top of his class at Harvard, ama you'll argue that was his white side scoring the points? Remember its his dad who was an Economist, not his mother. Anyways great debate.


flesh and blood did not reveal this unto you!
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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