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KQ is now trading at 13.50 - below rights issue
Mainat
#61 Posted : Friday, November 02, 2012 10:32:59 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
A few months to go for Titus
Sehemu ndio nyumba
VituVingiSana
#62 Posted : Friday, November 02, 2012 11:13:00 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
It's not the loss but how huge will the loss be for 1H 2012-13 ... that is the question!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Kausha
#63 Posted : Friday, November 02, 2012 12:01:36 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
It will be chunky. They grew their fleet by 2-3 planes and opened a few more routes in africa. The result is a total decline in pax volumes. There has been lots of inflation which I doubt they have been able to pass onto passengers. Add in the flight cancellations during the go slow, Egypt air runaway closure, Nigeria upheavels, staff redundancy costs and it certainly looks gloomy! It should also tell us an airline is not a business you add exponential capacity, it's got to be measured and synched to global business cycles.
Ms Mkenya
#64 Posted : Friday, November 02, 2012 5:06:38 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/13/2010
Posts: 869
Location: Nairobi
This is the best time to buy..
....above all, to stand.
guru267
#65 Posted : Friday, November 02, 2012 8:24:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Ms Mkenya wrote:
This is the best time to buy..


Here's my humble advice... Don't mess with airline stocks!! bankruptcy is always the end result Sad
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#66 Posted : Saturday, November 03, 2012 4:04:08 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
guru267 wrote:
Ms Mkenya wrote:
This is the best time to buy..


Here's my humble advice... Don't mess with airline stocks!! bankruptcy is always the end result Sad


Really....no...i dont think KQ is doing that badly. Its not a one size fits all scenario in the industry. look at Emirates and Etihad. Focus is key and knowing the market and I think KQ has that right.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
the deal
#67 Posted : Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:36:05 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/25/2009
Posts: 4,534
Location: Windhoek/Nairobbery
KQ was just a beneficiary of the collapse of national airlines around Africa...what happens when most of them are revived? More competition for KQ...the Malawi story points to the future.
guru267
#68 Posted : Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:38:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Ms Mkenya wrote:
This is the best time to buy..


Here's my humble advice... Don't mess with airline stocks!! bankruptcy is always the end result Sad


Really....no...i dont think KQ is doing that badly. Its not a one size fits all scenario in the industry. look at Emirates and Etihad. Focus is key and knowing the market and I think KQ has that right.


@murchr do you notice how the airlines you have mentioned are few and are mainly from oil producing countries??

In the long run higher oil prices, higher competition, and huge huge debt burdens always lead airlines to losses and bankruptcies!!

Why invest in a sector where the odds are greatly stacked against you??
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#69 Posted : Saturday, November 03, 2012 9:23:43 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Ms Mkenya wrote:
This is the best time to buy..


Here's my humble advice... Don't mess with airline stocks!! bankruptcy is always the end result Sad


Really....no...i dont think KQ is doing that badly. Its not a one size fits all scenario in the industry. look at Emirates and Etihad. Focus is key and knowing the market and I think KQ has that right.


@murchr do you notice how the airlines you have mentioned are few and are mainly from oil producing countries??

In the long run higher oil prices, higher competition, and huge huge debt burdens always lead airlines to losses and bankruptcies!!

Why invest in a sector where the odds are greatly stacked against you??


Africa, the only region growing at an average of 10% in the world currently. How many African airlines control the air? 4 at a maximum, so even if passengers numbers to and from Europe don't grow...local travel and flights to Asia will continue to grow.

What matters is strategy, what will KQ do to make competition irrelevant while offering their services at a desirable rate to the customer?

1. The number of airlines throwing in the towel is a good sign that competition is feeling the heat.
2. Did I read that Malawi is complaining because their Airline was kicked out of business?
3. The lifestyles of Africans are changing, we all want to get there faster (instant-mentality) soon, many more will be flying rather than taking the long bus ride and if KQ manages to capture this lot(mass market) well then..

For a while now KQ's mgt has been able to effectively use fin strategies to cover themselves from the high fuel prices but have failed badly in customer service and relations.

The airline business is not all bad just incase u wanted another airline example, Southwest..has against all odds managed to stay in the green for 39 years now...and counting. So its all about strategy

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
guru267
#70 Posted : Saturday, November 03, 2012 12:35:59 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
murchr wrote:
guru267 wrote:
Ms Mkenya wrote:
This is the best time to buy..


Here's my humble advice... Don't mess with airline stocks!! bankruptcy is always the end result Sad


Really....no...i dont think KQ is doing that badly. Its not a one size fits all scenario in the industry. look at Emirates and Etihad. Focus is key and knowing the market and I think KQ has that right.


@murchr do you notice how the airlines you have mentioned are few and are mainly from oil producing countries??

In the long run higher oil prices, higher competition, and huge huge debt burdens always lead airlines to losses and bankruptcies!!

Why invest in a sector where the odds are greatly stacked against you??


Africa, the only region growing at an average of 10% in the world currently. How many African airlines control the air? 4 at a maximum, so even if passengers numbers to and from Europe don't grow...local travel and flights to Asia will continue to grow.

What matters is strategy, what will KQ do to make competition irrelevant while offering their services at a desirable rate to the customer?

1. The number of airlines throwing in the towel is a good sign that competition is feeling the heat.
2. Did I read that Malawi is complaining because their Airline was kicked out of business?
3. The lifestyles of Africans are changing, we all want to get there faster (instant-mentality) soon, many more will be flying rather than taking the long bus ride and if KQ manages to capture this lot(mass market) well then..

For a while now KQ's mgt has been able to effectively use fin strategies to cover themselves from the high fuel prices but have failed badly in customer service and relations.

The airline business is not all bad just incase u wanted another airline example, Southwest..has against all odds managed to stay in the green for 39 years now...and counting. So its all about strategy



Good luck to you! Pray
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
obiero
#71 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 10:51:12 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,556
Location: nairobi
www.af.reuters.com/artic...ws/idAFN6E8HE00C20121106

this is even lower than anticipated. KES 6.6B loss is too much. how further down will the stock now sink?

COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
FundamentAli
#72 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:21:33 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/4/2008
Posts: 1,289
Location: Nairobi
murchr wrote:


For a while now KQ's mgt has been able to effectively use fin strategies to cover themselves from the high fuel prices but have failed badly in customer service and relations.

The airline business is not all bad just incase u wanted another airline example, Southwest..has against all odds managed to stay in the green for 39 years now...and counting. So its all about strategy


This is the main reason they are changing staff other than cost cutting in order to be competitive locally and regionally. They realise the current staff has done them in. They have lost a lot of business they should never. I stopped flying KQ 2yrs ago. Its painful, but the other airlines do not disappoint. You cannot have delays every day for 2 years running and still have business. Focus should be back to customers. I will only fly them when am assured their house is in order.
obiero
#73 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:55:41 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,556
Location: nairobi
Spot on. KQ does have poor customer service. Most of the staff are nonchalant and apathetic. The CEO has ridden over many storms including two air crashes, that cld have deflated the business basing on a relative small fleet size. He deserves kudos for some things but his sunset days are now here. New floor price of KES 10 is in the offing over the next few days. No one will sell below KES 10.

COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
hisah
#74 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 12:44:39 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 8/4/2010
Posts: 8,977
obiero wrote:
http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFN6E8HE00C20121106

this is even lower than anticipated. KES 6.6B loss is too much. how further down will the stock now sink?

H1 2012 - 6.5 birrion ross!? Pray


H1 2011 H1 2012
Turnover 54B 49B
PBT 2.8B -6.5B
PAT 2.0B -4.8B

Giza tupu. They have to issue a profit warning for the year...

Will be surprised to see the share hold above 10/-


$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
Aguytrying
#75 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 1:03:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
obiero wrote:
Spot on. KQ does have poor customer service. Most of the staff are nonchalant and apathetic. The CEO has ridden over many storms including two air crashes, that cld have deflated the business basing on a relative small fleet size. He deserves kudos for some things but his sunset days are now here. New floor price of KES 10 is in the offing over the next few days. No one will sell below KES 10.


The stock market doesn't like words like no one, or never
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
murchr
#76 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 3:30:35 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Aguytrying wrote:
obiero wrote:
Spot on. KQ does have poor customer service. Most of the staff are nonchalant and apathetic. The CEO has ridden over many storms including two air crashes, that cld have deflated the business basing on a relative small fleet size. He deserves kudos for some things but his sunset days are now here. New floor price of KES 10 is in the offing over the next few days. No one will sell below KES 10.


The stock market doesn't like words like no one, or never


Wanjiku's may be the rest will hold on.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
Kausha
#77 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:38:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
I reckoned the loss would be chunky but not this chunky. It now certainly looks gloomy! It should also tell us an airline is not a business you markets without much homework, it's got to be measured, market driven and synched with capacity growth. it's now clear KQ's route expansion is not very well researched. Most of the airlines making losses make losses in routes they already operate in because of competition and challenge of passing these to passengers. Obviously KQ has limited competition in routes it operates in and can therefore transfer cost pressure to pax easily. Which can only mean KQ is buying planes, opening routes to grow sales without much recourse to the profitability of these routes, AKA buying growth typically what some banks and insurance companies do with branch expansion.

I wish KQ could share high level profitability numbers of the routes they opened from 2006 to date. The ball dropped on or about 2006!
Kausha
#78 Posted : Tuesday, November 06, 2012 5:42:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
Mark you the profit KQ reported for the year ended March 2012 was a currency translation profit and not a real profit. If KQ dollarized it's P&L because it's revenue is in USD and most large costs are in USD , there is every possibility KQ would have reported a loss!
obiero
#79 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:28:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 13,556
Location: nairobi
could Naikuni be gambling with passengers lives? link ndio hii. palipo na moshi..
www.the-star.co.ke/news/...kq-buys-planes-tax-haven

COOP 70,000 ABP 15.20; HF 90,000 ABP 3.83; KQ 414,100 ABP 7.92; MTN 23,800 ABP 6.45
Gordon Gekko
#80 Posted : Sunday, November 11, 2012 1:49:14 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 5/27/2008
Posts: 3,760
obiero wrote:
could Naikuni be gambling with passengers lives? link ndio hii. palipo na moshi..
www.the-star.co.ke/news/...kq-buys-planes-tax-haven


Sensational journalism. If you recall when Brian Davies was the MD at KQ a hot shot reporter for the Standard raised the same issue with a leasing vehicle called Simba. Davies sued, won and donated the takings to a charity. Naikuni should follow the same route and donate to PK's campaign.

It was explained then that having such vehicles for finance leases was normal.

what might however might raise concern is that the planes were not new, as we have been made to believe. Then again that is not a big deal if they got them for the right second hand value.
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