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KPLC and Vision 2030 directorate gone bananas!!!
Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mgeman wrote:Simple message to the world bank fools, we don't need you. We have a blueprint showing how much power we need and know that we'll absorb that capacity, not only the 300MW, we are working on much more than that from Geothermal in Olkaria and Menengai. If the worst comes to the worst we will shutdown the expensive IPPs starting with your Aggreko. OK. Now how will you get the electricity from the wind farm to where it is needed? By camel express? There are transmission lines from Olkaria to Nairobi (among other major towns) & thermal IPPs are located close to the urban areas and can feed into the grid. @VVS Have you not heard that we shall be getting power from Ethiopia, where will this be passing though? How long will it take the wind farm to set up? isn't that time enough for Ketraco to install the required transmission. This is just another sabotage. Its not the first time. Just track every WB project...issues kibao. The issues are simple. Don't be confused. 1) Can the transmission line from Turkana to major urban areas especially Nairobi/Central/Nakuru/Eldoret be built in time to off-take the power from the windfarm? WB doesn't think so based on the transmission line completion based on its experience with various (worldwide) governmental projects [KETRACO is a gov't entity] that come in above budget & are delayed. The windfarm is a private enterprise which will try it's best to be completed within the time-frame. 2) If KPLC's PPA obligates it to pay for power [despite no or minimal off-take] then KPLC is in big trouble if it cannot 'get' to the power. It's like a farm that produces surplus potatoes but there the road is not complete between the farm & the town [consumers]. The potatoes will go to waste. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:mgeman wrote:Simple message to the world bank fools, we don't need you. We have a blueprint showing how much power we need and know that we'll absorb that capacity, not only the 300MW, we are working on much more than that from Geothermal in Olkaria and Menengai. If the worst comes to the worst we will shutdown the expensive IPPs starting with your Aggreko. OK. Now how will you get the electricity from the wind farm to where it is needed? By camel express? There are transmission lines from Olkaria to Nairobi (among other major towns) & thermal IPPs are located close to the urban areas and can feed into the grid. @VVS Have you not heard that we shall be getting power from Ethiopia, where will this be passing though? How long will it take the wind farm to set up? isn't that time enough for Ketraco to install the required transmission. This is just another sabotage. Its not the first time. Just track every WB project...issues kibao. 1) 3 years for the wind-farm. [Private project] 2) 5 years for the transmission lines. [Gov't project] 3) Ethiopia's dams to export sufficient power are not ready. It is unlikely they will be ready in 3 years. [Gov't project] Anyway, WB is not obligated to fund the project/s. It's a bank. There are others. Let them do so but the Kenyan taxpayer should not be on the hook for repayments. All WB is saying is make sure the transmission line is ready when the windfarm is ready. Also the windfarm can be 'installed' in phases meaning the power will be available for off-take within 1 year & as more 'windmills' are installed more is available. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/5/2010 Posts: 131 Location: kenya
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I don't get you VVS, are you saying we should abandon this project just because it might take longer to do the lines. wouldn't have been better for the WB to push for a review of the PPA or better still push or even fund the line if they had kenya's interests at heart. Another thing, they were not financing the project but were to provide some 'guarantees'; it is the AFDB who are giving the money! Same guys who funded Thika rd.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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I admire the World Bank's new found ALTRUISM. Who would have imagined that the bretton woods institution can get worried that Kenyan electricity consumers would be burdened with paying for excess power.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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When South Korea sort WB guarantees to start ship building industry, WB said that SK would be better off with a mega rice project to feed the people... SK said "to hell" and pursued their dream...today their are world leaders in ship building... and their are not starving! Closer home; do you remember what GoK did when fellow regional partners started dragging their feet on the undersea fibre optic project (EASSY)? GoK spearheaded TEAMS and landed a cable at Mombasa a year ahead of EASSY. Food for thought... Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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mgeman wrote:I don't get you VVS, are you saying we should abandon this project just because it might take longer to do the lines. wouldn't have been better for the WB to push for a review of the PPA or better still push or even fund the line if they had kenya's interests at heart. Another thing, they were not financing the project but were to provide some 'guarantees'; it is the AFDB who are giving the money! Same guys who funded Thika rd. 1) The core issue is the PPA obligates KPLC to pay for 'capacity' even if it is not used. It is not the WB's 'job' to push for the PPA review unless WB had come into the picture earlier as a stakeholder. 2) The issue is not financing the Transmission Line either. It is about completing the project. If the (very likely) delay in completing the Transmission Line goes beyond the date the windfarm is ready, KPLC will have to pay for power it has no access to. 3) The guarantees (if KPLC failed to pay) would have been funded/paid by WB hence the concern. I do not think KEnya should abandon the Windfarm. If anything, I support it fully but the PPA should be amended to take care of potential delays by KETRACO in ensuring the line is ready to go before KPLC gets in the 'payment' mode! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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What is needed is co-ordination of the transmission and the wind farm full stop. and WB if they dont want, we have afDB. i like how we are become "independent" and have a voice nowadays. Can the transmission project be given to chinese firm please. he he The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/22/2011 Posts: 30
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:What is needed is co-ordination of the transmission and the wind farm full stop. and WB if they dont want, we have afDB. i like how we are become "independent" and have a voice nowadays. Can the transmission project be given to chinese firm please. he he I am not so sure. The concern is what if the Transmission Line is completed AFTER the wind farm is completed? What happens to the power? [It cannot be transported nor economically stored]. Why is this issue being brought up after WB looked at it & not before? Should Kenya abandon the project? NOOOOO... but we need a contract to build the right-size transmission line that is ready by the time the wind farm comes online!!! Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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[quote=uzimalife]The saga continues........................... http://www.businessdaily.../-/ouyjfdz/-/index.html[/quote] “Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,” And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:“Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,”
And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. This kind of reasoning stresses me!! Are you aware how many transmission lines are available AROUND NAIROBI as opposed to TURKANA??Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:“Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,”
And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. This kind of reasoning stresses me!! Are you aware how many transmission lines are available AROUND NAIROBI as opposed to TURKANA?? ? Guru where is Turkwel? Surely how long can it take to connect to Turkwel. Please stop thinking small. Nairobians are not the only consumers of Power. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:“Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,”
And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. This kind of reasoning stresses me!! Are you aware how many transmission lines are available AROUND NAIROBI as opposed to TURKANA?? ? Guru where is Turkwel? Surely how long can it take to connect to Turkwel. Please stop thinking small. Nairobians are not the only consumers of Power. Huh? What is this about 'Turkwel'? I give up. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/21/2010 Posts: 6,675 Location: Nairobi
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murchr wrote:guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:“Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,”
And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. This kind of reasoning stresses me!! Are you aware how many transmission lines are available AROUND NAIROBI as opposed to TURKANA?? ? Guru where is Turkwel? Surely how long can it take to connect to Turkwel. Please stop thinking small. Nairobians are not the only consumers of Power. The point is that there are transmissions lines available for use around Nairobi today as opposed to turkana where they are being built from scratch!The wind farm will be completed before the transmission lines are finished while the thermal power is being built around transmission lines!! i hope this is not rocket science!! This means the WB is backing thermal power that will actually be sold and abandoning wind power that will be wasted because of no lines!! Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/22/2011 Posts: 30
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guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:guru267 wrote:murchr wrote:“Three heavy fuel oil thermal plants around Nairobi totalling 280MW have signed PPAs (power purchase agreements) with Kenya Power with the same structure and received the World Bank guarantee earlier this year,”
And the likes of VVS still think that the WB is doing this for them. This kind of reasoning stresses me!! Are you aware how many transmission lines are available AROUND NAIROBI as opposed to TURKANA?? ? Guru where is Turkwel? Surely how long can it take to connect to Turkwel. Please stop thinking small. Nairobians are not the only consumers of Power. The point is that there are transmissions lines available for use around Nairobi today as opposed to turkana where they are being built from scratch!The wind farm will be completed before the transmission lines are finished while the thermal power is being built around transmission lines!! i hope this is not rocket science!! This means the WB is backing thermal power that will actually be sold and abandoning wind power that will be wasted because of no lines!! Your right, but why the hurry. Why not implement in phases like the WB proposes. Bujagali Hydro in Uganda first did trial runs on the absorption of electricity to the grid. In fact, the Minister of Energy in Uganda (or some energy head) stated that it is no longer a supply issue but a transmission one. If we proceed like we want, expect payments to LTWP financiers.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/11/2010 Posts: 5,040
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VituVingiSana wrote:Aguytrying wrote:What is needed is co-ordination of the transmission and the wind farm full stop. and WB if they dont want, we have afDB. i like how we are become "independent" and have a voice nowadays. Can the transmission project be given to chinese firm please. he he I am not so sure. The concern is what if the Transmission Line is completed AFTER the wind farm is completed? What happens to the power? [It cannot be transported nor economically stored]. Why is this issue being brought up after WB looked at it & not before? Should Kenya abandon the project? NOOOOO... but we need a contract to build the right-size transmission line that is ready by the time the wind farm comes online!!! if the two projects are coordinated properly the transmission line will be completed before the windfarm, and this can be phased. The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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Aguytrying wrote:VituVingiSana wrote:Aguytrying wrote:What is needed is co-ordination of the transmission and the wind farm full stop. and WB if they dont want, we have afDB. i like how we are become "independent" and have a voice nowadays. Can the transmission project be given to chinese firm please. he he I am not so sure. The concern is what if the Transmission Line is completed AFTER the wind farm is completed? What happens to the power? [It cannot be transported nor economically stored]. Why is this issue being brought up after WB looked at it & not before? Should Kenya abandon the project? NOOOOO... but we need a contract to build the right-size transmission line that is ready by the time the wind farm comes online!!! if the two projects are coordinated properly the transmission line will be completed before the windfarm, and this can be phased. That is what WB wants or recommends as well. It is logical. My concern is that KPLC may end up paying for power it cannot sell if the T-Line is not 'connected' in time. Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: Elder Joined: 1/27/2011 Posts: 1,777
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Then let someone goad these KETRACO guys into doing their work and finishing it on schedule or better still, find someone else who can do it fast instead of killing the project just because the World Bank cannot trust KETRACO with doing their work right. It's bad that just an 'assumption' by the World Bank could derail a much needed project.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/3/2007 Posts: 18,136 Location: Nairobi
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josiah33 wrote:Then let someone goad these KETRACO guys into doing their work and finishing it on schedule or better still, find someone else who can do it fast instead of killing the project just because the World Bank cannot trust KETRACO with doing their work right. It's bad that just an 'assumption' by the World Bank could derail a much needed project. Which government project do you recall that came in on time & budget while meeting the specifications? Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 12/31/2011 Posts: 90
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VituVingiSana wrote:josiah33 wrote:Then let someone goad these KETRACO guys into doing their work and finishing it on schedule or better still, find someone else who can do it fast instead of killing the project just because the World Bank cannot trust KETRACO with doing their work right. It's bad that just an 'assumption' by the World Bank could derail a much needed project. Which government project do you recall that came in on time & budget while meeting the specifications? Phew! when will we start believing in ourselves and don't u think it's time we started doing something about ourselves and not let those condescending fools reinforce the belief that we are not good enough in us?
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KPLC and Vision 2030 directorate gone bananas!!!
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