Good, now that we've got all that venom out of our systems, let's now get back to doing productive things that we could have been doing instead of having this trivial online fight in the first place...

No hard feelings, it seems like we both agree that humanity and the need for civility and progress for mankind is bigger than both our inflated egos combined.....I know my ego can be big sometimes, but I have reasons for that.....Sometimes the ego comes out as a defense mechanism and we both went down that route with all the back and forth "pleasantries" that we exchanged....They came wrapped in colorful language too, which is nice as we approach this festive season....

You sound like a level headed guy, I will give you that, I can even see myself having a cold beer with you if we ever cross paths, but we need to check the egos at the door lest we get into another shouting match where bragging and "I am better than you complexes", take center stage instead of sensible talk . We both failed miserably on that front, but it's ok, it happens to the best of us, even monkeys fall off trees every now and then...I will admit that, figuratively, I took a hard fall from the tree and really hurt my butt cheeks....lol...But that fall will not keep me from going back up that tree....I crack myself up, maybe I should take my show on the road......Have a good weekend dude....Keep doing the good work....Difference of opinion can be healthy sometimes :)[/quote]

Sorry to come back here but I hadn’t seen this. I wasn’t having a fight with you, I have no reason to do that and have no hard feelings either. I was just being forceful in trying to demonstrate that you cannot conclusively make such bold claims (or denials) without comprehensive and valid knowledge of all the phenomena that’s been associated with your claims (or denial). This is the problem of both atheism and conventional theism and where agnosticism beats them hands down. And for the record, I have no problem with atheism. In fact I find it’s quite bold to come out in the open and defy convention, ask the uncomfortable questions. Even as the others condemn you and shout you down, deep down they know they long for answers to these very questions but have been too afraid to confront. For this, you move humanity forward, for that I applaud you. Atheism becomes a problem (and a religion in its own right) when it becomes an end in itself, when it claims absolute authority over that which it claims. It thus becomes yet another prison that parameterizes the confines beyond which the human mind cannot expand, rather than the means through which man seeks freedom to reach his higher ideals. This is the kind of militant atheism that will brook no challenge and appeals to the lower human nature, that which seeks to have authority above it, something to believe in and hence the need for prophets (including the modern day Dawkins and associates). Asking questions is a good thing; in fact it shows that you are not afraid to think (outside the box). But once you start asking these hard questions, stopping short of deeply satisfying answers can be such an anti-climax, don’t you think?

I brought in the quantum mechanics angle to demonstrate (and perhaps brag a little ) that the objective reality you experience and base your life and beliefs (or lack of) about life on a daily basis has been challenged scientifically. This is the reality that tells you that the sun raises in the east and sets in the west, that the ground beneath your feet is static and solid. These things are not literally true, yet we have constructed and live our lives as if they were. Heheh, now this is where I see people’s eyes glaze over as their brains shut down; Information overload! System crash! … I’ve got to go home and have dinner and play with my kids and feed the dog and perhaps make love to my wife and go to work tomorrow … totally oblivious of what’s really going on here. And on and on our mundane lives go on and eventually we die as we are destined to and who knows what happens thereafter.

Hamburglar congrats on graduating from Wharton, just wondering why you hardly comment in the Investors section. I would like to know what your portofolio entails, someone once said that the best capital gains can be found in stocks with market caps of $50 million and below, then went ahead and said that he wouldnt touch stocks on the pinksheets, abit confusing coz most $50 mil and under are OTC, he wouldnt give more info. I'm trying to squeeze out info, sorry for derailing the convo

A light touch on this debate. Be warned there is some profanity, do not click if easily offended.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion

I find your views on punishment very interesting. As always, a pleasure...