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Is Satan omnipresent?
Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:Why wouldn't the creator/maker/manufacturer of this universe have rules in His creation?
There are is a difference between rules and dictatorship....You creator wants to punish everybody that questions him, that is dictatorship... It is not a matter of rules and/or dictatorship. Neither is it a matter of being punished for questioning! But before we go further, consider this; isn't it 'foolish' for one to plunge into a swimming pool with all his clothes and shoes on? In the same measure should one consider the frame of mind he enters with in the spiritual realm. I have tried to give an answer to your question in my post on this thread, and in my answer to your test. But you've made reflect on the matter a little bit more, and here is what I can add: Fire, is both light and heat. It illuminates and destroys. The evil one, the serpent, at least in the Judeo Christian tradition, illuminated and destroyed man. So was Prometheus punished by the gods for giving man the secret of fire. The evil one's scheme is destroy. That is, he approaches as light and man embraces him, so he becomes the fuel. The evil one - Lucifer, the bringer of light (knowledge) is a part of you. It is the boy with the magnifying glass (fire) disrupting the ants (order). The end of the world- now, is when the evil one has no more people to cheat due to 'consciousness' or 'repentance' and is left with no option but burn himself out. This realization brings forth the Kingdom of heaven, or to put it in terms of Genesis, 'the garden of Eden'. So the burning of Lucifer is not only a perfect act of Love and justice, but is also high art. Please remember to remove your suit and shoes before you plunge in. And don't be afraid to question.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2008 Posts: 6,275 Location: Kenya
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hamburglar wrote:Danas wrote:i seek to understand so bear with me. was religion holding you back from doing the right thing? what was it holding you back from and what do you see present day religious guys being held back from doing (which is right) because of the religious ties(that's what my sad faces were asking  Danas, by holding me back I meant that I never used to think for myself when I was religious and always turned to god for help, but more often than not, this god was always missing in action adn I would find myself backed into a corner because I didn't use my brain to get myself out of the situation, I waited for a god that never shows up...Now that I learned how to depend on myself and think for myself, I have been able to do much much more in my life...I have have a lot of success in my life, both academically and financially, and I owe a lot of this to my quitting religion and becoming an atheist... @hamburglar I hope you'll be able to read the whole of what I'm putting across below. Do not tire. First, I would say that in Islam, we say whatever good thing you have is by the blessings of Allah. He has given us all these even though we do not deserve. So for those who have been successful in life, they should realize that only because God has permitted it. We maybe intelligent, but we may think we are intelligent because we have worked hard, then we are the biggest fools in the world.It is only with the permission of God and sometimes God permits success to someone who is far away from faith (deen or dini). So God gives His grace, sometimes to test you.Secondly, in Islam, we believe that wealth is a test for us. Our blessings also maybe a test for us. So God tests us, to see if we will thank Him or not. A person maybe unbeliever or believer. But he has to respond back. If a person thinks he is intelligent because he has worked hard, then he will fail in this test. And hereafter he will not get any benefit.  So if a person is a believer, he should always thank God, act in the way of God so that he benefits in this life and hereafter also. Quran 22:6 says:" This is so, because Allah is the Reality: it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who has power over all things." NOTE: Quote:All these beautiful and well-articulated pageants of life and nature point to the Reality behind them, i.e., Creator.
They will perish, but He is eternal. They are but shadows; the substance (if such a word may be used) is in Him.
They are shifting and illusory, in the sense that they have neither permanency nor independent existence.
But they have a sort of secondary reality in the sense in which a shadow is a real reflection from substance.
No Power or Existence has any meaning except as a reflection of Allah's ineffable Glory. Quran 22:9 says:" (You see some people) bending their necks in pride, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah.
for him there is disgrace(2780) in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)." Quran 22:15 says:" If any think that Allah will not help him (His Messenger. in this world and the Hereafter),
let him stretch out a rope to the ceiling and cut (himself)off:
then let him see whether his plan will remove that which enrages (him)!" Quran 22:16 says:" Thus have We sent down Clear Sings; and verily Allah doth guide whom He will!" NOTE: Quote:as an Unbeliever, you are better off observing the Clear Signs which he has brought
and obey and follow the Guidance which comes from Allah according to the Laws which He has fixed by His Holy Will and Plan. Quran 22:1 says:" 1. O mankind! fear your Lord! Verily the earthquake of the Hour (of Judgment) will be a terrible thing!" " 2. The Day you shall see it, every mother giving suck shall forget her suckling baby,
and every pregnant female shall drop her load:
thou shalt see mankind as in a drunken riot, yet not drunk:
but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah." O @hamburglar! if you have a doubt about the Resurrection, the life after death, consider the below:- you have only to turn your attention, either to your own nature, or to the nature around. - How wonderful is your own physical growth, from lifeless matter, to seed, fertilised ovum, fetus, child, youth, age, and death! - How can you doubt that the Author of all these wonderful stages in your life here can also give you another kind of life after the end of this life? - Or, if you look at external nature, you see the earth dead and barren, and Allah's fertilizing showers (rain) bring it to life, growth, and beauty in various forms. - The Creator of this great pageant of Beauty can surely create yet another and a newer world. The stages of a man's physical growth from nothing till he completes the cycle of this life are described in words whose accuracy, beauty, and comprehensiveness can only be fully understood by biologists. Parallel to the physical growth, may be understood man's inner growth, also by stages and by Allah's creative artistry.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/23/2009 Posts: 1,626
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@alphdoti - I may not be muslim but I find your words both true and wise. @hamburglar - I am always intrigued by your views. I struggle with these very questions so I hope you can share you opinions with me if you don't mind. Q1.How do you decide what's good?From what values or beliefs do you base them on? Q2.Personally I believe you can't be free as a human until you try to resolve the issues pertaining to your existence in this world.If this applies to you,how do you resolve those issues? Q3.I have also thought about the suffering in this world.I always reach a point which I admittedly can't figure out. Without discomfort,can we know comfort? Without suffering,can we know pleasure? Wouldn't the alternative be us being numb? Q4.I don't think man's problems stem from materialistic things although they do play a role in it.I think they stem from his heart.What's your opinion on that? Q5.I believe that God exists,so bear with me. Assuming for the sake of discussion that he does,do you think as man we would be able to comprehend his ways through our minds? Uncertainty is certain.Let go
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/9/2007 Posts: 420 Location: Nairobi
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hamburglar wrote:youcan'tstopusnow wrote:hamburglar, how do you/will you inculcate atheistic principles to your kid? I know religious people will maybe take them to a place of worship. Will you tell a kid that hakuna Mungu and that all the neighbours are dumb for praying to an imaginary being? Or you will let it decide for itself? Just wondering. I'm not judging or anything, but just want to see how an atheist would approach such an issue. Kwa hivyo usinitusi  Hakuna matusi, lol, when and if I have munchkins, religion and politics will never be discussed in my house...Those are two topics that I will not indoctrinate my kids with....I will let them choose their path, whatever makes them happy....If my kids ask me for my opinion, then I will tell them that I am an atheist and why I am an atheist but I will never take my kids to a church or a mosque and make a decision for them based on my belief..
I think everybody should be free choose for themselves in matters of religion and politics....People mistake atheists for evil people while the truth is that atheists want a better world and peace and all the other good things for everybody, just like everybody else does...The difference though is that atheists take a more logical approach to it in the sense that we understand that their is no omni everything deity that will give us all those things that I just mentioned and it's up to us (humans) to help provide a better life for our neighbors instead of praying to a god that seeems to be content just watching children die and doing nothing about it while he can stop the deaths with a snap of the fingers.....
Do theists have an answer as to why this god is letting children (innocent kids) starve to death every five minutes around the world? What's the logic behind that? Is there some kind of teaching that he is trying to teach us? If that's the case then this god has a warped way of thinking....Do theists have an answer as to why he is not giving us a cure for cancer and AIDS? To me it sounds like he is more interested in punishing people instead because that's what theists keep telling me will happen to me if I keep calling him out...I have been told that I will die, go to hell etc, but I just wonder why that would be warranted? Just because somebody challenged him now he deserves to burn for eternity???? he must be a very weak god if that's how he handles conflict, by sending people to burn...Well, if punishing me is a bigger priority to him than giving us a cure for bad diseases, then that proves my point that this god is evil and does not really care about his "children" that much...he is busy settling scores with guys like hamburglar that he doesn't have time to save a poor innocent baby from starving to death....What a loving god he is, right?
Where theists employ faith, we use reason.....That is the big difference...So far, faith in this god has not given us a cure for cancer, maybe this god is ok with people suffering and dying of cancer, because if I were this god, I would give humanity the cure for cancer on the very first day on the job...On day one, I would get rid of sin, get rid of suffering and get rid of all the troubles of the world....Why not? Why isn't this god doing that? According to theists, he has the ability to end suffering with a snap of his fingers, so what's holding him back?????So maybe we need to start using our heads if we are to rid oursleves of bad elements instead of waiting for this mythical god who prefers to play "mysterious" games while people contimue to suffer...We have been waiting on him for centuries but it sounds like he is not interested in theists prayers....Maybe he is too busy going through the list of people he needs to revenge and settle scores with or maybe he is just a snob that doesn't care about people suffering and kids dying.....or maybe, just maybe, he just doesn't exist..... :)
salaala! so just now there are no tois yet....so U can be sure you do not know how you will deal with sprituality when you become a parent sio? so are there wazua atheist parents to give their view?
Opinion is free, truth is sacred.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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mkeiyd wrote:@hamburglar, You can really hold your ground.
Back to the question of Satan's omnipresence, the guy was thrown down[from heaven] to rule the world.
It's my guess that the only place Satan is missing is heaven.
Everywhere else,he rules.
He's there. Satan is not omnipresent. You see, when he went before God in the book of Job, Satan says he's been 'roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it' (Job 1:6,2:1). He wouldn't need to roam if he was omnipresent.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/25/2012 Posts: 1,624 Location: Langley
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I have a satanic bible in pdf however everytime i open to read it... Maybe it can help answer you question. If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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Dia wrote:mkeiyd wrote:@hamburglar, You can really hold your ground.
Back to the question of Satan's omnipresence, the guy was thrown down[from heaven] to rule the world.
It's my guess that the only place Satan is missing is heaven.
Everywhere else,he rules.
He's there. Satan is not omnipresent. You see, when he went before God in the book of Job, Satan says he's been 'roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it' (Job 1:6,2:1). He wouldn't need to roam if he was omnipresent. @ Dia, So what you are saying is, there is only one sin at any given time in the whole world? If Kipngetich is being tempted by the devil in Eldoret,the whole world is safe til he [the devil] is done in Eldoret, to rush to Las Vegas before heading down to Mexico and oouuh yah, some more biz almost immediately in Kandahar. While at that, at what speeds does he roam?
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