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Future of IT in Kenya
sitaki.kujulikana
#31 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:20:48 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
wa P wrote:
wanyee wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Skills are lacking otherwise hubs wouldn't be necessary. The problem I was stating is a problem we've all heard before,people have the necessary papers but can't translate them to output at work and that goes beyond IT/ICT. Even Juliana Rotich one of the founders is pushing for more people to learn and acquire skills(there is a international talk she was in last year).

Skills that are lacking:Assembly programming,In depth operating system knowledge,Multimedia(graphics,images,video,audio),Hacking and Security(Cryptography),Programming languages,Smartphone programming,Social Media utilization,HTML5,User Experience Designers,DATA SCIENTIST!!!!!

Considering what you are saying about Kenya beating South Africa we are quite far because I believe the majority of people go the networking route.


Of the types of "skills" you are mentioning above....Shame on you plenty of those available. i dont how you would benchmark the "skills".. in terms of certifications ..or in terms of in-depth understanding of the underlying mathematical/scientific concepts behind them


Not the certifications. Those we left in River Road.
Talk of globally benchmarked, applied skills.


the skills are available, maybe just not at the volume and price the googles and microsoft and the other tech giants require
wanyee
#32 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:22:58 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
wa P wrote:
wanyee wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Skills are lacking otherwise hubs wouldn't be necessary. The problem I was stating is a problem we've all heard before,people have the necessary papers but can't translate them to output at work and that goes beyond IT/ICT. Even Juliana Rotich one of the founders is pushing for more people to learn and acquire skills(there is a international talk she was in last year).

Skills that are lacking:Assembly programming,In depth operating system knowledge,Multimedia(graphics,images,video,audio),Hacking and Security(Cryptography),Programming languages,Smartphone programming,Social Media utilization,HTML5,User Experience Designers,DATA SCIENTIST!!!!!

Considering what you are saying about Kenya beating South Africa we are quite far because I believe the majority of people go the networking route.


Of the types of "skills" you are mentioning above....Shame on you plenty of those available. i dont how you would benchmark the "skills".. in terms of certifications ..or in terms of in-depth understanding of the underlying mathematical/scientific concepts behind them


Not the certifications. Those we left in River Road.
Talk of globally benchmarked, applied skills.



Laughing out loudly and this skill too------->Multimedia(graphics,images,video,audio) river wood rings a bell? in river rori?
sitaki.kujulikana
#33 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:24:33 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
wanyee wrote:
wa P wrote:
wanyee wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Skills are lacking otherwise hubs wouldn't be necessary. The problem I was stating is a problem we've all heard before,people have the necessary papers but can't translate them to output at work and that goes beyond IT/ICT. Even Juliana Rotich one of the founders is pushing for more people to learn and acquire skills(there is a international talk she was in last year).

Skills that are lacking:Assembly programming,In depth operating system knowledge,Multimedia(graphics,images,video,audio),Hacking and Security(Cryptography),Programming languages,Smartphone programming,Social Media utilization,HTML5,User Experience Designers,DATA SCIENTIST!!!!!

Considering what you are saying about Kenya beating South Africa we are quite far because I believe the majority of people go the networking route.


Of the types of "skills" you are mentioning above....Shame on you plenty of those available. i dont how you would benchmark the "skills".. in terms of certifications ..or in terms of in-depth understanding of the underlying mathematical/scientific concepts behind them


Not the certifications. Those we left in River Road.
Talk of globally benchmarked, applied skills.

talk of this skill -------->Hacking and Security(Cryptography) recently locked phones by CCK are being unlocked in the same River Road!!!Laughing out loudly

ati unlocking a phone is a Cryptography skill
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
ChessMaster
#34 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:34:40 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
Glad you agree sitaki.kujulikana. @wanyee google for the Julisha Kenya ICT report by the ICT Board.It can give statistics in a better way than I can. There is also more to multimedia than meets the eye.But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
wanyee
#35 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:36:36 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
wanyee wrote:
wa P wrote:
wanyee wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
Skills are lacking otherwise hubs wouldn't be necessary. The problem I was stating is a problem we've all heard before,people have the necessary papers but can't translate them to output at work and that goes beyond IT/ICT. Even Juliana Rotich one of the founders is pushing for more people to learn and acquire skills(there is a international talk she was in last year).

Skills that are lacking:Assembly programming,In depth operating system knowledge,Multimedia(graphics,images,video,audio),Hacking and Security(Cryptography),Programming languages,Smartphone programming,Social Media utilization,HTML5,User Experience Designers,DATA SCIENTIST!!!!!

Considering what you are saying about Kenya beating South Africa we are quite far because I believe the majority of people go the networking route.


Of the types of "skills" you are mentioning above....Shame on you plenty of those available. i dont how you would benchmark the "skills".. in terms of certifications ..or in terms of in-depth understanding of the underlying mathematical/scientific concepts behind them


Not the certifications. Those we left in River Road.
Talk of globally benchmarked, applied skills.

talk of this skill -------->Hacking and Security(Cryptography) recently locked phones by CCK are being unlocked in the same River Road!!!Laughing out loudly

ati unlocking a phone is a Cryptography skill
Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly

Laughing out loudly i did not expressly show Cryptography just linked it to the general subject ..but heehehehe i do not want a dickfest of how lonng your schlong is at discerning Cryptography boss tusiende apoShame on you
ChessMaster
#36 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 1:52:13 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
wa P wrote:
@ChessMaster you are spot on!

Anybody who has interviewed IT prospects knows the annoying refrain that 'Networking' has become. You can add 'pHp' as the most ubiquitous 'programming language' you hear of.

ponder these:
1. Anyone reading this who need both hands to count the A+ Oracle DBAs you know?
2. How about Unix OS skills and experience?
3. How many IT training institutions in Kenya spew out market-ready application programmers?
4. Can we list down the 'original, made in Kenya' IT end products that make commercial sense - that is, satisfying a need profitably?

etc etc.

The IT integration projects in corporate Kenya is littered with 9ijas, Indians, Zimbabweans and most recently East Europeans. So much for hubs, Nokias and IBMs.

The IT body in Kenya need a lot more than hubs and 'tunaomba selikali'. Top amongst being; good IT curriculum with an optimum mix of technology and business skills (finance, economics), Global best and next practices and peer reviewed developments, Lesson 101 on internet (such an amazing resource/ platform that we misuse).

Having a facebook account, transferring money by Mpesa and having a yahoo account does not pass as IT skills.

Neither is building a simple website, developing an 'mobile App' that only makes sense to you or having a desk at an incubation room.


Business skills and IT/ICT skills is a major problem even at silicon valley. Plus the problem of making applications that only other techies understand or appreciate and thus leave out the masses of users.Another thing I've noted is people are trying to catch up instead of staying ahead.That's already a losing game.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Lucid_Iam
#37 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:05:34 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/30/2011
Posts: 483
sitaki.kujulikana wrote:
IT is very broad, and I think some areas have come of age e.g the mobile sector (SMS), I don't think any big company will be outsourcing their IT to kenya any time soon - there are very few specialists

Not all IT related outsourcing is specialized (think IT support) and those that are don't need decades to develop eg application development (we don't have to go into manufacturing chipsets), also entry barrier to this industry is not high compared to let say manufacturing. I believe Kenya will become a major player in the outsourcing industry if current efforts by MoIC succeed. Bitange seem to have the vision right and I am hopeful about the future.
ChessMaster
#38 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:23:14 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 2/23/2009
Posts: 1,626
The question is do Kenyans have the same vision?Otherwise his efforts will be wasted. I'm not for IT support in the long-term but it's a good way to start out. Also as you say the barriers to entry are not high and with the internet anyone can access the breadth of knowledge offered and shared by the best. All this is already in place but we've got nothing to show for the opportunities before us.
Uncertainty is certain.Let go
Tito44
#39 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:43:58 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 111
ChessMaster wrote:
But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?


@ChessMaster, i'm surprised that you don't realize that anything Mzungu sells in Kenya. The same guys with the same skillset will definitely be on a higher jobgrade than you are. A case in time is the KDN issue where locals were kicked out in favour of "expatriates". The company is almost being sold as we speak. Read the papers.

Macharia (founder of Seven Seas Technologies)was aired on NTV some time back. He says getting contracts in Kenya is so prohibitive that it favours foreign companies. The guy is actually implementing solutions in Nigeria, and yet struggles to get contracts in the country. And when a contract is awarded to a foreign firm, he ends up losing his employees to the same firm to implement or gets approached to implement for a fraction of the contract amount.

This is the sad story of affairs
wanyee
#40 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:05:45 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
Tito44 wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?


@ChessMaster, i'm surprised that you don't realize that anything Mzungu sells in Kenya. The same guys with the same skillset will definitely be on a higher jobgrade than you are. A case in time is the KDN issue where locals were kicked out in favour of "expatriates". The company is almost being sold as we speak. Read the papers.

Macharia (founder of Seven Seas Technologies)was aired on NTV some time back. He says getting contracts in Kenya is so prohibitive that it favours foreign companies. The guy is actually implementing solutions in Nigeria, and yet struggles to get contracts in the country. And when a contract is awarded to a foreign firm, he ends up losing his employees to the same firm to implement or gets approached to implement for a fraction of the contract amount.

This is the sad story of affairs

True that..e.g. the recent biometrics contract for IEBC to a foreign firm, i was hoping for a local firm to do the roll-out with the accompanying information system, We have perennial weather problems with our rain dependent agriculture i have not seen any IT driven solution to address this in terms of accurate prediction or control systems. Any (I.T.)group/individual which can try to address these (pro bono or o/wise) ..not in isolation but with the relevant expats in these domains can have serious mileage in terms of skill set improvement and R&D as well.
Tito44
#41 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:25:45 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 111
wa P wrote:
Anybody who has interviewed IT prospects knows the annoying refrain that 'Networking' has become.


@Wa P, The reason is because such companies are not looking for specialists but jacks of all trade. In such cases, you find a job advert looking for a software developer but also throws in something like CCNA, MCSE etc is added advantage. What crap is that? You get exactly what you ask for.

wa P wrote:
Can we list down the 'original, made in Kenya' IT end products that make commercial sense - that is, satisfying a need profitably?

I had already mentioned a few software products ie Mpesa, pesa-pal, ushahidi.

wa P wrote:

The IT integration projects in corporate Kenya is littered with 9ijas, Indians, Zimbabweans and most recently East Europeans. So much for hubs, Nokias and IBMs.


Check out Craft Silicon and you will realise that he is implementing financial solutions in the above mentioned countries.Craft Silicon is Kenyan, so is seven Seas Technologies

wa P wrote:

The IT body in Kenya need a lot more than hubs and 'tunaomba selikali'. Top amongst being; good IT curriculum with an optimum mix of technology and business skills (finance, economics), Global best and next practices and peer reviewed developments, Lesson 101 on internet (such an amazing resource/ platform that we misuse).


I agree. But even without the proper curriculum, see how far we have come. Ndio sababu hatuombi serikali

wa P wrote:

Having a facebook account, transferring money by Mpesa and having a yahoo account does not pass as IT skills.


The above definitely requires some skill, but not the kind of skills we are discussing.

wa P wrote:

Neither is building a simple website, developing an 'mobile App' that only makes sense to you or having a desk at an incubation room.


You mean like mpesa application. It is kenyan you know, but patented by some ....Just kidding
wa P
#42 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:31:34 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/26/2009
Posts: 326
Location: Nairobi
Tito44 wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?


@ChessMaster, i'm surprised that you don't realize that anything Mzungu sells in Kenya. The same guys with the same skillset will definitely be on a higher jobgrade than you are. A case in time is the KDN issue where locals were kicked out in favour of "expatriates". The company is almost being sold as we speak. Read the papers.

Macharia (founder of Seven Seas Technologies)was aired on NTV some time back. He says getting contracts in Kenya is so prohibitive that it favours foreign companies. The guy is actually implementing solutions in Nigeria, and yet struggles to get contracts in the country. And when a contract is awarded to a foreign firm, he ends up losing his employees to the same firm to implement or gets approached to implement for a fraction of the contract amount.

This is the sad story of affairs


Some if not most of those 'mzungu' things are quite good and kenyan businesses should want the best. They may have been there before us, but our collective challenge is to innovate ahead of them. Take for example Banker's Realm by Craft Silicone, a Kenyan firm (owned by a gentleman of Indian origin). It is only considered as an entry level system, and as a bank grows they go for more sophisticated systems. Does Seven Sea Technologies own IP for any robust, field standard application or solution?

eboomerang
#43 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:40:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/27/2011
Posts: 301
Location: Nairobi
wanyee wrote:
eboomerang wrote:


If we are to create an industry, the government needs to get it right and it could take many years to form it. Right now we have young people with the right mindset and motivation but there is no environment and neither are they fully equipped.


i disagree the environment is there no need for "tunaomba serikali iingilie kati" cry no absolute need for that. The harsh tough environment is what nurtures innovation example use of limited locally available resources to surmount challenging problems ..that my friend is innovation and will be very competitive globally . IT the field of knowledge technologies such as AI and expert systems is the way to go.

Think beyond the "tunaomba serikal" approach.

Basically I agree with what others have raised here that there is significant lack of quality highly skilled labor. That high quality skilled labor will not appear magically, neither are the current single handed efforts going to be sustainable long-term as those young developers will start looking for more income stability as they mature.

Typically, it may take even 15-20 years to educate a true expert (at about age 35). Expertise is somewhat a generational thing -skills are improved over generations of experts that is why you have global clusters of certain skills. Therefore, if you look at the broader picture, government's commitment to educate people is a must have, we need to get our human capital generating machine working -that is the key driver.

As for those who are pointing at research centers as the hall marks of growth, well, I don't know what they understand by research. Simply, a large part of research is about fact finding and taking ques that can be used for future products features. It's really about data gathering and trying to understand the context of future applications (products or services). What ever those research centers will stumble upon during their research, it is quickly bundled for production abroad somewhere where there is talent that can refine the idea.

If any company brought an R&D center to Kenya, then that would be another story.
wanyee
#44 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:47:35 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 627
Location: Mbui-Nzau, Kikumbulyu
wa P wrote:
Tito44 wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?


@ChessMaster, i'm surprised that you don't realize that anything Mzungu sells in Kenya. The same guys with the same skillset will definitely be on a higher jobgrade than you are. A case in time is the KDN issue where locals were kicked out in favour of "expatriates". The company is almost being sold as we speak. Read the papers.

Macharia (founder of Seven Seas Technologies)was aired on NTV some time back. He says getting contracts in Kenya is so prohibitive that it favours foreign companies. The guy is actually implementing solutions in Nigeria, and yet struggles to get contracts in the country. And when a contract is awarded to a foreign firm, he ends up losing his employees to the same firm to implement or gets approached to implement for a fraction of the contract amount.

This is the sad story of affairs


Some if not most of those 'mzungu' things are quite good and kenyan businesses should want the best. They may have been there before us, but our collective challenge is to innovate ahead of them. Take for example Banker's Realm by Craft Silicone, a Kenyan firm (owned by a gentleman of Indian origin). It is only considered as an entry level system, and as a bank grows they go for more sophisticated systems. Does Seven Sea Technologies own IP for any robust, field standard application or solution?


Not sure but i think they(SST) are largely infra-com less appdev..and likely do major conveyance for products and services of Major international firms. They are hardly R&D which mean less likehood of IP or copyrights
eboomerang
#45 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:48:52 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/27/2011
Posts: 301
Location: Nairobi
wanyee wrote:
wa P wrote:
Tito44 wrote:
ChessMaster wrote:
But for arguements sake, if the skills are there why are there so many expatriates taking the jobs and why haven't the locals made use of these skills except for a few individuals and organizations?


@ChessMaster, i'm surprised that you don't realize that anything Mzungu sells in Kenya. The same guys with the same skillset will definitely be on a higher jobgrade than you are. A case in time is the KDN issue where locals were kicked out in favour of "expatriates". The company is almost being sold as we speak. Read the papers.

Macharia (founder of Seven Seas Technologies)was aired on NTV some time back. He says getting contracts in Kenya is so prohibitive that it favours foreign companies. The guy is actually implementing solutions in Nigeria, and yet struggles to get contracts in the country. And when a contract is awarded to a foreign firm, he ends up losing his employees to the same firm to implement or gets approached to implement for a fraction of the contract amount.

This is the sad story of affairs


Some if not most of those 'mzungu' things are quite good and kenyan businesses should want the best. They may have been there before us, but our collective challenge is to innovate ahead of them. Take for example Banker's Realm by Craft Silicone, a Kenyan firm (owned by a gentleman of Indian origin). It is only considered as an entry level system, and as a bank grows they go for more sophisticated systems. Does Seven Sea Technologies own IP for any robust, field standard application or solution?


Not sure but i think they are largely infra-com less appdev..and likely do major conveyance for products and services of Major international firms. They are hardly R&D which mean less likehood of IP or copyrights

Which then leads to another question, why are they not able to produce their own IP or what hinders them from having their own IP?
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