Answers in this post will be supported by the bible, and because not everyone is a bible believer, there are other threads to debate, just helping out my brothers and sisters in faith.
Is money a MUST for Love to flourish?
Does Money SUSTAIN love?
essyk:
Is there anything like a 'region's system of love? eg does a society's system/culture influence the way we approach this?
For instance.People like saying that EA girls are not 'money focused' unlike their W.A counterparts.
But being on the ground I know that is not the case.
They would also argue that people of a certain race,out of their culture,environment,upbringing love for loves' sake and not money.
Tell me about 'our society' and how money influences relationships.
eassyk:
What influences the way you approach relationships?
Is it your individual principles or a society's expectations?
It's difficult to ignore a society's way of life.
By that I mean the environment under which everything operates.
On the other hand a relationship we know is ones' own business.
But see,at the end of the day,one's relationship is often measured against the society's expected standards.
For instance,it's vain for me to stick to my principles in a society that disregards them, especially if I know it will not work in my favour.
The only way is to lay them aside and adopt the current one where I am at.
Now suppose one is a world traveller.It would mean changing to fit everywhere one goes?
So can you do that? Lay aside your principles and adopt a society's just to get things moving?
Rem. that a society has more influence than your individual thinking and at times our high principles appear as a drop in the ocean.They get drowned in a noisy and wild society.
eassyk
1. Does a society have the right to judge what is right and wrong in relationship matters?
If not,why then do we hear stuff like,'in our society women are gold diggers and men are womanisers'.
If every man in a particular society believes that all women are after his gold,why not become an expert gold digger instead of trying too hard to prove that you are not, to an already 'corrupted mind?' Your 'principles may be mistaken you know.
-The reason you cannot choose to be different is because it may not work in your favour.
Maka's post #19 & #22: Good
In addition to what maka wrote
The two (Money and Love) should not be in the same equation.
Meaning,
essyk:
If money goes, so does love out of the window??
A scenario: It's all good, cash is flowing, the couple are happily married, then 30 years down the line, something happens that causes the man to loose all his wealth. Will this happen?
rock wrote:
You lose your job one day.When you get home your wife says:"Don't worry darling we"ll just get rid of some of the useless s**t we don't need around the house" and you're left very happy thinking what a lovely and understanding wife you've got.Two months later is when you realize that she was talking about YOU!!!
If the above happens, then that relationship was not founded on love, but on money.
Hence the two (money & love) cannot be in the same equation.
While they cannot be in the same equation, both are still nessesary.
- The man is the provider, he is the husband (house-band, he cares and provides for the house, irrespective of whether or not the wife has a trade or not). This is man's God given role, if the man cannot handle the role, he should not take the role. Not taking the role when not being able to handle the role is responsibility.
- The ideal is to also have woman trade too, not gold digging. Look at the proverbs 31 woman. - Proverbs 31:16 "She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard."
- A woman cannot just sit and wait for a husband, what if a husband never show's up, will she live broke at parents house? Will she become a gold digger? No! she will get into a trade and live her life, and if she's old enough and stable enough, move out, the world is big, a lot of problems need to be solved, surely she can find an opportunity for her skills and talents, and who knows who'm she'll meet on the way. Prov 31:20 "She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy."
- A man should not marry a woman if he does not love her, even if he has capacity to provide for the house.
Gen
2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
If the norm in society would include the two highlighted principles above (man being the provider and the man marrying only one whom he loves), then the question about love and money would not come up in the first place, for that which needs to be done, will be done by default.
Although thousands graduate from uni's and colleges annually, not many are able to comfortably support a family still after x time from graduation and many may be illiterate of love, hence the shortage of eligible's.
The true definition of love is not a feeling or emotion that is experienced, but is a principle, a way of life.
1 Corinthians 13 is known as the love chapter, it defines what love is.
In the KJV, the word "charity" is used in place of love.
Verses 1 - 3 tells us of the things that we can do and be invalid if love is not present.
Verses 4 - 8 defines what love is.
13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
By God's order, man is placed as the leader, not as a tyrannical leader, but as a loving leader, according to the definition of love in 1 Cor 13.
Ephesians 5
5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Since love is unselfishness, it needs to be mentioned that a natural heart is selfish by nature. You see it even in kids not wanting to share their toys etc.., it takes a daily renewing of the heart for both parties to be able to love unselfishly throughout the marriage, this is why both Adam and Eve first knew their creator prior to knowing each other.
Hence the vertical relationship is a prerequisite to the horizontal relationship.
The rest of the questions have a common theme - society.
If a christian knows what the ideal is, a compromise should not be justified.
The one thing that should define one's life is not society, but the truth. It is true that the vast majority of society is not in accordance with biblical ideals, but despite this, the bible has acknowledged that this (the majority of society being contrary to scripture) is and will be the reality.
Well, should one go with the society's ideals or owns biblical ideals that contradict the society's?
2 Tim
3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Matt
7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Romans
12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind [heart & mind are synonymous in the bible], that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
If the whole society is not in accord with God's ideals, will you still stand for the truth? Just like Daniel?
This cut's across the whole spectrum of one's life, relationships just being one of them.
All humans have a free will to choose as they please. God will not take that from any, because He is love, and love cannot be forced. We decide.
Those who get the "keeping up with the Jone's sysndrome" are the ones who have broken the last commandment.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.
Kaigangio
essyk wrote:
...Without refering to personal experiences,...
...@ essyk...this is where you youngans go wrong...if one cannot advise you from experience why would you want to rely on hypotheses for advise especially on issues related to opposite sex unions???
just take it this way, a spinster cannot tell you about matrimonial set up neither can a bachelor...I therefore expect that all that you are reading here that is not motivated by experience, is just but uncalled for theories...
Biblical history reveals that this world was created perfect, without any sin, suffering or death, but it was through Adam and Eve's disobedience that brought sin to the world, and through Christ, all who would will, will be redeemed from sin to eternal life.
God commanded them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God gave them a theoretical knowledge of the dangers of sin, He did not wish that they (Adam & Eve / Humanity) have an experiential knowledge of sin, but because of their disobedience, the world's history has transpired as it has.
When it comes to issues of marriage, the eternal destiny of souls and the happiness of the rest of their lives is at stake, hence it must be approached with extreme caution. Individuals need to make informed decisions, not uninformed decisions.
Just as Adam & Eve were given theoretical knowledge about the dangers of sin, so also does the Bible teach ideals of marriage and gives warnings, of which it is not God's wish for his children to have an experiential knowledge of ignored counsel.
All the unmarried need to be fully armed with knowledge prior to entering marriage, which is a God ordained institution.
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,
Truth is truth, irrespective of where it comes from. The source of truth will not change the nature of truth.
All counsel is welcomed, irrespective of it's source, provided that it is in accord with the scripture.
Hence, one does not have to be married in order to give counsel, provided that the counsel is is accordance with scripture.
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
A testimony of one who has not gone astray will help others not go astray, and this is that which needs to be experienced.
There is no doubt that a testimony from one who went astray will help prevent others from going astray, but that does not mean that others have to experience going astray, to not go astray in the future.
josiah33
I believe you are not able to feel that emotion called LOVE if you are constantly on an empty stomach and not out of choice but out of circumstances such as lack of money to buy food. How would you feel love when you are always thinking of ridding yourself of those hunger pangs?
You are correct in that the feeling of love may not be felt while hungry, also know that neither will the principle of love fall out because of hunger. This is because love is not a feeling, love is as a principle, a way of life as defined in 1 Cor 13
They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.