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#peremende movement
Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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poundfoolish wrote:alma wrote:So in the meantime, let's kill as many of these poor people as we can by not going to work. they have been dying left right and centre... and the doctors are saying enough is enough.. we swore we are under oath to save lives.. but how do you do it, when you have no facilities, no medicine, no motivation, long hours of watch, literally doing nothing... Our government is made up of narcissistic pests.. when the NSIS tells them public opinion is against the docs.. regardless of their genuine concerns.. the govt goes ahead and shuts its eyes and ears.. Kwani ni kura ngapi hizo za madaktari? We would have been done and over with this strike if the public aired its frustration at lack of health facilities and services in the country.. If you have ever been to a public hospital... you would cry.. anza na casuality, go thru the maternity wards.. malizia any other dept you want.. don't complain with an AAR card in your pocket ditto
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/25/2010 Posts: 939 Location: Nai
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poundfoolish wrote:alma wrote:So in the meantime, let's kill as many of these poor people as we can by not going to work. they have been dying left right and centre... and the doctors are saying enough is enough.. we swore we are under oath to save lives.. but how do you do it, when you have no facilities, no medicine, no motivation, long hours of watch, literally doing nothing... Our government is made up of narcissistic pests.. when the NSIS tells them public opinion is against the docs.. regardless of their genuine concerns.. the govt goes ahead and shuts its eyes and ears.. Kwani ni kura ngapi hizo za madaktari? We would have been done and over with this strike if the public aired its frustration at lack of health facilities and services in the country.. If you have ever been to a public hospital... you would cry.. anza na casuality, go thru the maternity wards.. malizia any other dept you want.. don't complain with an AAR card in your pocket I once had to go buy sedative and bandages to get my dislocated shoulder fixed after an accident and that was in a district hospital. Many kenyans have died of heart attacks that can be handled easily because of lack of facilities like automated external defibrillator. Let's not pretend people ain't dying anyway they are because of treatable diseases only that they can't find these services in public hospitals and they can't afford to buy the medications.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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poundfoolish wrote:
Our government is made up of narcissistic pests.. when the NSIS tells them public opinion is against the docs.. regardless of their genuine concerns.. the govt goes ahead and shuts its eyes and ears.. Kwani ni kura ngapi hizo za madaktari?
We would have been done and over with this strike if the public aired its frustration at lack of health facilities and services in the country..
If you have ever been to a public hospital... you would cry.. anza na casuality, go thru the maternity wards.. malizia any other dept you want..
don't complain with an AAR card in your pocket
I've bolded what the point is for you doctors to read and try and understand. The public doesn't trust you doctors to do the right thing at any time. There's enough evidence of bad doctor practises to create a land fill and a cess pool. Yet, to complain to the doctors board is like milking anyang nyongos heart for honey. So before you start complaining about how arrogant anyang is, understand that we know and many on this forum don't even like him. We will vote TNA if it makes you guys happy. The issue here is that you are trying to use lame excuses to get better pay. When you go on strike, you make sure the masses are with you and not try to come up with fake anger and pain for the masses. Otherwise you will not allow people to pay 80k to give birth. If giving birth is 80k what about a real disease? How much do you charge? When you charge that much, where do the gloves suddenly come from? Doctors are not clean in anything that's going on in these hospitals so spare us the mother teresa attitudes. If you can wake up one day and see someone dying and do nothing about it simply because the gov't is arrogant, then you come to us with very unclean hands. You are just as bad. So spare us and go find out a better way to deal with the issues. Let no one die when you could have done something about it, then come and pretend how the money is not important. But thus far I know that your actions have caused the amputation of a young girl's hands, have caused the pain of thousands of Kenyans, even caused the direct death of someone. All so that you guys can get paid by my taxes to take you to do your masters.  Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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alma wrote:I've bolded what the point is for you doctors to read and try and understand. The public doesn't trust you doctors to do the right thing at any time. There's enough evidence of bad doctor practises to create a land fill and a cess pool. Yet, to complain to the doctors board is like milking anyang nyongos heart for honey. So before you start complaining about how arrogant anyang is, understand that we know and many on this forum don't even like him. We will vote TNA if it makes you guys happy. The issue here is that you are trying to use lame excuses to get better pay. When you go on strike, you make sure the masses are with you and not try to come up with fake anger and pain for the masses. Otherwise you will not allow people to pay 80k to give birth. If giving birth is 80k what about a real disease? How much do you charge? When you charge that much, where do the gloves suddenly come from?
Thank God you have the 80k to pay. What do you think the Pumwani mothers pay? Doctors are not clean in anything that's going on in these hospitals so spare us the mother teresa attitudes.
So we who are concerned are supposed to keep quiet coz no one is clean? Talk about middle class apathy! If you can wake up one day and see someone dying and do nothing about it simply because the gov't is arrogant, then you come to us with very unclean hands. You are just as bad. They have been dying coz Nyong'o and co. don't know and/or care You just didn't know coz you were happily taking your kids to Gertrude's with your insurance smart card!So spare us and go find out a better way to deal with the issues. Let no one die when you could have done something about it, then come and pretend how the money is not important. But thus far I know that your actions have caused the amputation of a young girl's hands, have caused the pain of thousands of Kenyans, even caused the direct death of someone. All so that you guys can get paid by my taxes to take you to do your masters. Come on man, we're now into conspiracy theories? Nkt!Why am I even commenting on this?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Dia lets keep this from becoming personal. You have no idea if I go to pumwani or not. After blaming Anyang, now you want to blame the middle class. Listen guys, as long as people are dying in those hospitals as you are marching in the streets, then some of us will not listen to you. You are supposed to be doctors. Not makanga strikers. If you can't even respect your profession, no wonder Anyang is treating you like brukenge. I imagine the day when pastors go on strike coz God hasn't been talking to them lately. Anyang Nyongo is not the cause of the problem of the health profession in this country. Hospitals, insurance firms, doctors and gov't policy are the problem. So if he left today, would you get those gloves you keep on yapping about? The health industry in Kenya is in dire straits. It requires the effort of all in this country and cannot be solved by us paying unqualified trainees 200k a month so they can take their girlfriends out. So this strike has nothing to do with the health profession. Just a bunch of doctors who want to eat before the health industry totally crumbles. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others? you drive on roads build at the expense of others ...how?? possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Chief Joined: 3/24/2010 Posts: 6,779 Location: Black Africa
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alma wrote:So in the meantime, let's kill as many of these poor people as we can by not going to work. Well said. NOTHING justifies their actions. Hakuna GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/18/2011 Posts: 12,069 Location: Kianjokoma
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Thank God police officers cant go on strike. They too have low pay and poor working conditions/lack of facilities! Just imagine if they were to strike!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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maka wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others? you drive on roads build at the expense of others ...how?? most roads are build with tax payers money. since the cash is limited, a choice is made which roads to build or not - some people just have to do without the same.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/20/2012 Posts: 888
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I've bolded what the point is for you doctors to read and try and understand. The public doesn't trust you doctors to do the right thing at any time. There's enough evidence of bad doctor practises to create a land fill and a cess pool. Yet, to complain to the doctors board is like milking anyang nyongos heart for honey. So before you start complaining about how arrogant anyang is, understand that we know and many on this forum don't even like him. We will vote TNA if it makes you guys happy.The issue here is that you are trying to use lame excuses to get better pay. When you go on strike, you make sure the masses are with you and not try to come up with fake anger and pain for the masses. Otherwise you will not allow people to pay 80k to give birth. If giving birth is 80k what about a real disease? How much do you charge? When you charge that much, where do the gloves suddenly come from? Doctors are not clean in anything that's going on in these hospitals so spare us the mother teresa attitudes. If you can wake up one day and see someone dying and do nothing about it simply because the gov't is arrogant, then you come to us with very unclean hands. You are just as bad. So spare us and go find out a better way to deal with the issues. Let no one die when you could have done something about it, then come and pretend how the money is not important. But thus far I know that your actions have caused the amputation of a young girl's hands, have caused the pain of thousands of Kenyans, even caused the direct death of someone. All so that you guys can get paid by my taxes to take you to do your masters. [/quote] I wish you know how much is spent by politicians by during their trips abroad with large entourage and their girlfriends..complaining that your taxes will be paid to the doctors is just failing to fathom the bigger picture. Doctors should be paid well period. They deserve better pay and better work environment.If you belong to baba party and you believe mandevu is not arrongant is just because you are as arrongant...By the way the govt even now continues to sponsor candidate for their masters because it believes in building capacity. Complaining about taxes is just myopic in my view.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others? you drive on roads build at the expense of others ...how?? most roads are build with tax payers money. since the cash is limited, a choice is made which roads to build or not - some people just have to do without the same. ...i was taking in terms of life...nobody is talking about roads here. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 3/30/2010 Posts: 176
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@ Alma,
I am blaming the middle class for doing nothing about the pathetic state of our public health institutions and condemning the doctors who are doing something about it
People were dying before the strike coz of issues raised by the doctors and all those condemning the doctors cared jack. Why the concern now?
The strike is not about the health profession but about medical supplies, facilities and staffing which happens to be Nyong'o's JD.
At least we are in agreement that there is a problem with our public health institutions. The strike is not about Nyong’o the person but about the minister of Medical services who just happens to be Nyong’o at present! If it was Kimunya in that seat and the same lousy performance, the strike would still be on.
There is nothing as precious as life to a human being. The people keeping others alive (and I include nurses and policemen here) are even more important than state-of-the-art chambers for MPs. If the govt can pay for the latter, surely it can pay for the former
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@Dia you will be very surprised to know that I actually support you in your endeavour to change the health system in this country. But I don't believe in crocodile pain for the masses excuses. If you as doctors really cared about the masses can you please kindly explain the following http://suztoure.blogspot...eep-off-nairobi_05.html
Of course you won't. Protecting lousy doctors is stock in trade of your profession for a long time. No wonder we don't believe you are doing this to "help the poor Kenyan". I know its for the money until you guys explain yourselves better. Having said that, the health system is pathetic. But I'm a believer in wholesome change not least of which is the attitude of doctor in Kenya. Going on strike and leaving the poor you are pretending to be caring about to their own device doesn't make you any different from the ministry you are trying to bulldoze into increasing your salaries. You are part of the change we need in these hospitals. In this case, you have lost all moral authority. In your strike, have you bothered to find out how many of your patients have died since you went on strike or are you exactly like Anyang Nyongo who said that he's not a mortuary attendant? Going on twitter and spamming all the journalists with your stories doesn't make you any better than Nyongo. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 8/25/2012 Posts: 1,826
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maka wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:sitaki.kujulikana wrote:maka wrote:@jamplu hakuna mtu amekataa i,d b very happy if i,d b able to go to a public hosi,get treated well,with well remunerated docs and nurses who have available to them the best and latest equipment...but should all this be available at the expense of others? you drive on roads build at the expense of others ...how?? most roads are build with tax payers money. since the cash is limited, a choice is made which roads to build or not - some people just have to do without the same. ...i was taking in terms of life...nobody is talking about roads here. people die on roads
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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alma wrote:@Dia lets keep this from becoming personal. You have no idea if I go to pumwani or not.
After blaming Anyang, now you want to blame the middle class.
Listen guys, as long as people are dying in those hospitals as you are marching in the streets, then some of us will not listen to you.
You are supposed to be doctors. Not makanga strikers. If you can't even respect your profession, no wonder Anyang is treating you like brukenge.
I imagine the day when pastors go on strike coz God hasn't been talking to them lately.
Anyang Nyongo is not the cause of the problem of the health profession in this country.
Hospitals, insurance firms, doctors and gov't policy are the problem. So if he left today, would you get those gloves you keep on yapping about?
The health industry in Kenya is in dire straits. It requires the effort of all in this country and cannot be solved by us paying unqualified trainees 200k a month so they can take their girlfriends out.
So this strike has nothing to do with the health profession. Just a bunch of doctors who want to eat before the health industry totally crumbles. The problem is in the system, not the individual. In this fiasco has kemsa been forgotten and is 'innocent'. Look at this long list of qualified persons in the kemsa team responsible for not providing supplies that have made the medics go on strike: Dr. John M. Munyu, MBS Chief Executive Officer Mr. Fred Wanyonyi Director of Legal Services / Corporation Secretary Mr. John Kabuchi Procurement Manager Mr. Joshua H. Obell Operations Director Mr. Ignatius Kaburu Distribution Manager Mr. Charles Juma Ezekiel Procurement Director Dr. Shamim Kuppuswamy Ag. Customer Services Manager Mr. Samuel Okanda Warehousing Manager Mr. Dominic Kabiru Public Relations & Communications Manager Mr. Samuel Wataku Information & Communication Technology (ICT) Manager Mr. Enos Namasaka Human Resources & Administration Manager Mr. John Mwangi Finance Manager Ms. Agnetta Mufutu Human Resources & Administration Officer Dr. John Aduda Quality Assurance Manager Mr. David Muttu Procurement Manager (Donor Funded Programmes) Ms. Caroline Gichinga Ag.Procurement Manager (Contract & Equipment) Mr. Kiumbura Githinji Business Development Advisor( USAID ) Dr David Mbogori (Phd) MIS Advisor (USAID) Are the Drs. in this list also on strike? Are they also protesting poor working conditions? But we a union full of energetic leaders who are afraid of confronting Dr. John Munyu as the CEO of Kemsa and they met their match in the minister. Its hard to feel sorry for both. Yet it is now the innocent people that pay the price when these 2 have a meaningless fight.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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Kudos @YesuWangu Let's get to the issues. They've gone all gang ho on twitter thinking that we are stupid and have never dealt with "Kenyan doctors" before. The problem is the whole medical system that we know needs change. But right now, all they want is their pay increased. I'm willing to bet and put my reputation on the line right here on Wazua. If these doctors get a pay rise as they are demanding, they will not, and I repeat this, they will not demand gloves be in the hospitals. They will go back to work on Monday and pretend that nothing has happened. They will not investigate malpractices amongst themselves. They will not demand screened blood before they use it on a patient They will not demand better facilities at KNH They will not reduce the cost of medical care to the poor. They will not be on time on their next surgery They will not change a single IOTA. All that will change is that they will get higher pay. So let us be honest with ourselves. Its for the money the rest is politics. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/2/2009 Posts: 2,458 Location: Nairobi
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Lolest! wrote:Thank God police officers cant go on strike. They too have low pay and poor working conditions/lack of facilities! Just imagine if they were to strike! LOL!!! and we all know how they compensate for the inadequacies.. both personal and institutional... Is our police force doing better? Last i checked, it was the most adamant to reform.. even threatening potential 'outsiders' who would have started some good reform in the mess that is our police force
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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Sorting out this mess was easy. Just absorb the registrars into GOK then BOND them Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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Dia wrote:@ Alma,
I am blaming the middle class for doing nothing about the pathetic state of our public health institutions and condemning the doctors who are doing something about it. The something the doctors are doing is unfortunately leading to the deaths of Kenyans - not Anyang' Nyongo and the middle class that you blame.
People were dying before the strike coz of issues raised by the doctors and all those condemning the doctors cared jack. Why the concern now? How dare we be concerned about the extra people who will die as a direct result of your strike when all it will do is just add on the tally of those dead? In your comment you seem to be saying that it is okay to cause the death of an extra few to get your demands met.
The strike is not about the health profession but about medical supplies, facilities and staffing which happens to be Nyong'o's JD.
At least we are in agreement that there is a problem with our public health institutions. The strike is not about Nyong’o the person but about the minister of Medical services who just happens to be Nyong’o at present! If it was Kimunya in that seat and the same lousy performance, the strike would still be on.
There is nothing as precious as life to a human being. The people keeping others alive (and I include nurses and policemen here) are even more important than state-of-the-art chambers for MPs. If the govt can pay for the latter, surely it can pay for the former. Of course you are very right. But you don't show evidence of holding life precious if you are okay with allowing Kenyans to die so as to push your agenda. In my book both you and the government are responsible for the deaths resulting from the strike.
He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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After seeing my posts here, a doc friend called me for lunch. He gave me a very long lecture. I've changed my mind. Let the docs go on strike. In fact, I will picket for them. I only have one condition. Let it be possible for a commoner like me to sue a doctor. On that I'm not budging. Tukale peremende. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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