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SK not bothered with draft constitution?
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Tebes
#21 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:43:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
Its the same Mpigs again to tell us why and how best to take away their Jobs,through possibly an Act of Parliarment!!!

Sample this,


'(2)Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be followed.'

Its a case of asking your employee,'On what grounds,and as well,how best can I sack you?!!!

Work like you will die tomorrow,plan like you will never die
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Tebes
#22 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:13:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/26/2008
Posts: 2,097
Though the status quofor the President and Prime minister remain till the next election,acording to the seventh schedule to the draft,I suspect a sinister motive on each of the two political devides.

Could ODM be banking on the National Accord and reconcilliation Act being brought in conformity with the new constitution? - clause 2 of the seventh schedule to the new draft.

Could PNU be banking on the following premise by Mutahi Ngunyi? (Ref who will midwife new Kenya? - Excerpts from his Aug 2008 article says,

'Now we have to start all over again in search of a new order. The question now is this: who will midwife the new order? Who will deliver the new Kenya? A Kenya with a new constitutional and economic order; one with an equitable distribution of wealth and opportunities?


Let us begin with President Kibaki. Can he be the midwife? The answer is an absolute no. End of discussion.



What about his blue-eyed boys Mr Uhuru Kenyatta and Mr Kalonzo Musyoka? In my view,the two represent the old Kenya. The apparent Kibaki plan is to have Mr Musyoka succeed him and Mr Kenyatta to be Prime Minister.



This is not a deviation from the Kibaki strategy of 2007 in which he gunned for &lsquo;&lsquo;one-tribe-and-abit&rsquo;&rsquo;. That is,so long as he had the Gema vote,all he needed was &lsquo;&lsquo;abit&rsquo;&rsquo; of support from everywhere. '

Could minimum reforms be the way forward?

Food for thought




Work like you will die tomorrow,plan like you will never die
"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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sheep
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:25:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/24/2008
Posts: 781
People the constitution is nothing but a sh1t paper

The only constitution I know of is the 10commandments given by the Father of lights on mount sinai.
The utimate goal of investing is to buy low sell high;if we re-write this core equation in psychology terms it becomes buy fear sell greed.
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Mainat
#24 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:45:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
I think after goldenberg and the honourable mpigs,this this katiba business is the biggest gravy train and waste of money we have in Kenya.

Why do we need the proposed umpteeth layers of governance? Aren't there only 2 real contentious bits in the current constitution (executive presidency/PM and land reform) that we can easily change in parliament? Sorry,3 contentious issues. The 3rd being law-abiding...




www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com
Sehemu ndio nyumba
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mtaalam
#25 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:27:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
Now that we asked for a devolved government. Do people really understand the consequences? Kibaki must have seen this coming when he commissioned the construction and upgrading of roads in Central Province (I'm definitely buying land btwn Thika and Muranga).
Looks like the biggest winners from this will be Coast,Central,Western and to some extend Rift. For Coast I wonder whether the Port of Mombasa will fall under Central Govt....

All the same if this area is not well thought out,it may bring serious conflict. Imagine the central govt borrowing money from the devolved govt as per sec. 15 part 4 and the devolved gvt. says no. As for North Eastern,I hope they strikes black gold soon because this constitution spells doom for them. This is my personal opinion.

...ili iwe funzo!
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Fundaah
#26 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:28:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/19/2008
Posts: 1,267
Tebes
'(2)Parliament shall enact legislation to provide for the grounds on which a member may be recalled and the procedure to be followed.'

Its a case of asking your employee,'On what grounds,and as well,how best can I sack you?!!!

Thats an eye opener...this section should be removed...

We also dont need a senate ....kenya is too small for that ....its duplication ...and a waste of tax payers money.....

Also the constitution does not entrech payment of tax by Mpigs ......why? ...somebody or all of us let's make sure that this reaches the COE within 29 days from now.......






Rules of the game here:

Before you post anything think.give facts only..It's a serious blog for serious people....Do not insult your brother....respect one another...Just be good....
It's good to live a honest life....life without guilt....

Jeremiah 17:11

As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid,So is he who makes a fortune,but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him,And in the end he will be a fool.'



From the SK Anti-hate/anti- corruption campaigner..
Isaiah 65:17-Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth, and no one will even think about the old ones anymore
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Jangwa la Jangili
#27 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:29:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/9/2009
Posts: 311
to put the hype in context,did you know that technically the United Kingdom does not have any one document known as 'the Constitution'?

Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
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Njunge
#28 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:42:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Hell i can't get to CoE site........bure kabisa!

CoE website is temporily being serviced to accomodate the current high demand. Bear with us.

Old man about town....
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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mtaalam
#29 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:01:00 AM
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Joined: 11/2/2006
Posts: 519
@Njung'e
Nunua gazeti.

...ili iwe funzo!
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Jangwa la Jangili
#30 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:07:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/9/2009
Posts: 311
someone at the COE is sleeping on the job. first of all,their website is very easy to hack. if the below link is anything to go by.

http://www.coekenya.go.k...ages/stories/Resources/


you can even tell what version of Apache and OpennSSL they are running. all you need to do is check out the vulnerabilites online and presto! uko ndandi. e.g OpenSSL

http://www.fortiguard.co...d.ciphers.overflow.html

might not be too hard for a person with malice to go in there and upload a fake draft or controversial document.
Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
Katika Jangwa la Jangili ndipo Pwagu hupata Pwaguzi.
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McReggae
#31 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:47:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
Njung'e,

You can download a copy from either the Nation or Standard websites,quite fast!!!!!


The chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world in which it is overestimated.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Njunge
#32 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:12:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
@Mcreggae,
Thanks pal.......and this thing is damn big.....Nitamaliza in 29 days?.MK should declare a 29 day holiday....-:)

Old man about town....
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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sokomjinga
#33 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:30:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 4/5/2008
Posts: 183
There is too much emphasis being given to affirmative action,especially regarding the representation of women.

Why? This only leads to bloated assemblies!

The majority of Kenyans are women. Who has prevented them from electing women to parliament? Why do they elect men to parliament and then expect the same men to pass such laws to protect their rights. Are they not to blame in the first place?

Women should be educated about their rights and they should then exercise those rights the way they deem it fit.

Stop discriminating against men in the guise of protecting women's rights! They are not making use of their rights.



All beginnings are difficult ..... ..... everything has an end,only a sausage has two.
Taunet Neelel ..... New Beginning .....
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Njunge
#34 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:15:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Just curious........I am hadly quarter way through this draft but i am seeing this phrase for the upteenth time,......'Parliament shall enact'......I am certain i will meet many more of this ahead.Simply said,much of the draft is not ready to be used once adopted.......Can this Mpigs be trusted not to twist what might be initially very good intention of CoE for their benefits?Are they likely to bring all this bills to parliament before 2050 given how slow they conduct business?.....Is there no way of getting this clauses entrenched in the constitution without involving parliament??.....Over to those in the know.

Old man about town....
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
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miser
#35 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:59:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 124
And these are not capitals...capsules.....capulets......kofias....the works!!!Let us keep on dreaming about a new constitution!!!!

These are those big hardcover books with yellowing pages explaining those brief summaries in the draft.Lawyers in the house... akina skylat,tell us if its possible to have these caps for this draft in the next ten years!Only minimum reforms can save this nation.

And who said that we want a president and a prime minister?It should be one of them not both!So give us two drafts and we choose what kind of governance we want.....but am hallucinating!!

Share ideas for a better Kenya!!
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Kusadikika
#36 Posted : Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:07:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,702
Njung'e,
The biggest headache in constitution making is never so much the content but the process by which it has to be made. It is almost impossible to have a constitution without going through parliament.

Remember the reason why we never had the enactment of the Bomas Draft was because at the very beginning the Bomas Process itself was never entrenched in the constitution. The late Mirugi Kariuki and Koigi Wamwere tried to raise the issue at Bomas trying to urge the members to stop the process and go back to parliament and entrench the process in the constitution first but they were booed down as people who wanted to derail the process. That is how the case ended up in court and the Ringera ruling that ruled that the only way to get a new constitution is by voting for it in a referendum.

Parliament,however is still the supreme authority as far as constitution making is concerned. It has the powers to amend any part of the constitution. The catch is,in order to amend it two thirds of ALL MPs must agree. That is a 145 members. Remember other bills pass by majority vote of members present so that if there are 40 members in the house you need only 21 and you are through.

As I understand it all we have now is a draft that will be subjected to debate and modified accordingly before its final submission to the public vote in a referendum.

Weusi wa nywele za mshtakiwa zaonyesha ujinga alio nao
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Kusadikika
#37 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:55:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,702
Maoni Yangu

I will reject and will advice anybody who seeks my opinion to reject any document that has any mention of the position of Prime Minister. It is naive of us to think that we have political parties (i.e. political organisations with fundamentally different ideologies on issues of governance). What we have are tribal groupings.

The objective of curtailing presidential abuse of power can be achieved by subjecting his appointments to a vetting process by parliament and strengthening the parliamentary watchdog committees but creating 2 centres of power is in my opinion dangerous. When the electorate votes in a president they are appointing the 'buck stopper'. This is where the 'buck stops'. A situation in which we don't know who to hold responsible for what is breeding crowd for anarchy.

Introducing all those other houses ati sijui Senate and that kind of thing is to me unnecessary and wasteful. We will just be stratifying the current parliament and creating more expensive structures. The leaner the government the better. I don't see the point of abolishing the current provincial administration only to replace it with other structures with different names.

All this can be achieved with just amendments to the current constitution and no need for a new one. All the other nice things in the new constitution like dual citizenship and limiting cabinet positions can also be amended into the old one.

It looks like what am saying is: MIMI SITAKI KATIBA MPYA. NATAKA MABADILIKO FULANI KWA KATIBA ILIYOKO.



Weusi wa nywele za mshtakiwa zaonyesha ujinga alio nao
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Ezzo
#38 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:51:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 7
I know we Kenyans are religious and all that,even the pre-amble to the new Constitution aptly says ' we the people of Kenya acknowledge the supremacy of Almighty God...' Are we just assuming that everybody believes in God? i.e Hindus have many gods. Then again it comes back to say that the religion should be separate from the state. Duh? How can that be?

BMW
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Ezzo
#39 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 1:55:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 7
i kinda like it. But whats with the senate? We do not have to do everything the U.S way. Am concerned with the cost of supporting such largesse? Or is this just a 'creation' of jobs for the 'youth'

BMW
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Magigi
#40 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:14:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/31/2008
Posts: 7,081
Location: Kenya
...why are there no definitions in the constitution? Who is a child,youth,elderly,man,woman etc Aren't these definitions important?
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