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THE PLAIN TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM
tycho
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:16:18 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Throwing the Bible or the Quran into the sea and finding out who will remember involves plenty of fallacy. In the first place we'd have to summon Jibril again to do the marking. But then again this is perhaps what should be done.

And even as we are contemplating to discard the books let us remember that the reigning religious symbols are the satellite dish and antennae. Our work is no longer that of memorizing but creation and interpretation.

As for the list of prophets let us add Karl Marx and perhaps Ortega y Gasset. I am sure there are more current ones of course so you can add to the list.
AlphDoti
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:47:59 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
alustaadh wrote:
@ ALPHA, it was common practice for the populations of the old world to memorize teachings since majority of them were illiterate anyway. And do you know that the Jews still memorise the Torah to the latter? Does this make the Torah equal to the quran? You have yourself pointed out that some muslims have misinterpreted the concept of the Quran. Isn't this not proof enough that the teachings f the Quran are beingchanged slowly? And what is this bussiness of Muslims calling themselves SUNI, SHIITE, WAABISM? Already Islam 3 denominations if not more.......it is gradually going the christian way.

The answer above was for @maliwaza.

My point was that God sent the prophets and messengers with the truth.
- God revealed one religion to Adam, to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus and all others.
- But the Torah of Moses, the Zabur of David and the Injeel of Jesus have been tampered with by people, we do not have them as it was revealed.
- But the last book the Quran, God protected it Himself.

The Quran we have today will never be corrupted because millions of Muslims have memorized it from cover to cover.

So @alustaadh I would like you to focus. That was, we can have productive discussion. I have not even answered your other questions and you are already asking about "Islam 3 denominations if not more".
You can keep this one for later, but I can answer you that there are 3 Islams. Islam is one. There are no 3 Qurans. Quran is only one.
sitaki.kujulikana
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:11:13 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 8/25/2012
Posts: 1,826
religion is all about faith, you choose what you believe - hakuna facts involved.

if it's a debate, then just highlight the positives of your religion wacha kuingilia religions zingine.
alustaadh
#34 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 9:30:30 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/6/2010
Posts: 222
Location: NAMANGA
Thanx @ ALPHA. I like your sincererity already. However am concerned that you have not taken enough time to evaluate your belife system against neutral sources of information, such as history and archeology......because had you really done that, you should have discovered that every new religion has somehow managed to incooporate some elements of the old religions, introduce newer teachings, and manage to portray the older religions as inferior....
It is humiliating to be associated with thieves and murderers.
maliwaza
#35 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:44:48 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 6/21/2012
Posts: 24
Location: Nairobi
@Alph, you're taking me to school. Thank you, this is most informative. Now back to my question...

AlphDoti wrote:
@Maliwaza the Quran was revealed to an illiterate prophet, unlettered prophet, more than 1400 years ago.

It was memorized over a period of 23 years when it was revealed.
- It was memorized by the prophet.
- It was memorized by several of his companions.
- And the prophet reviewed their memorization.
- And angel Gabriel, that brought it to him, reviewed the prophet's memorization of it.
- And so when the prophet past away his companions had memorized this whole of the Quran under his review.

God sent the prophets and messengers with the truth.
- And the last book the Quran, after the Torah of Moses, the Injeel of Jesus, the last book of Quran, God protected it Himself.
- The Quran we have today will never be corrupted because millions of Muslims have memorized it from cover to cover.


The sceptic in me is struggling with the the very beginning where you say it was revealed to the prophet. But that's a matter of faith not reason, there's nothing I can, or should, say to that.

What I do have to question is the next bit about the memorisation. History has shown as that as knowledge is passed down from one generation to the next it changes, grows, mutates, adapts, something gets lost in translation, so to speak. Its an imperfect process because we are imperfect beings, not photocopiers.

That said, I am investigating as you asked, this is from the wikipidea page, not the gospel (sorry) truth I know, but its a beginning.
Quote:
The Qur'anic canon is the form of the Qur'an as recited and written in which it is religiously binding for the Muslim community. This canonical corpus is closed and fixed in the sense that nothing in the Qur'an can be changed or modified. The process of canonization ended under the third caliph, Uthman ibn Affan (r. 23/644–35/655), which was about twenty years after the death of the Prophet.[29]
By the time of the caliphate of Uthman ibn Affan, there was a perceived need for the compilation of the Qur'an. The Caliphate had grown considerably,expanding into Iraq, Persia, Egypt and Iran, bringing into Islam's fold many new converts from various cultures with varying degrees of isolation.[30] These converts spoke a variety of languages but were not well learned in Arabic and so a complete written text of the Qur'an had to be compiled. Another reason for compiling the Qur'an was that many of the Muslims who had memorized portions of the Qur'an were dying, especially in battle.


I'm curious to know what questions you yourself have asked about the book, or do you simply accept it for the miracle you say it is?
Better to ask the question and look like a fool for a moment, than to remain in ignorance and be a fool forever.
AlphDoti
#36 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 8:58:00 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
scout_boy wrote:
2.There is only one verse dedicated to this event while whole chapters discuss the most mundane of subjects.

There are many verses about this. But it is not profitable to discuss the many doubts and conjectures among the early Christian sects.

i). Verse 4:156-159 above "..Nor crucified him,.."

ii). Another verse 3:55:
"Behold! Allah said: O Jesus! I will take thee And raise thee to Myself And clear thee (of the falsehoods) Of those who blaspheme;
I will make those Who follow thee superior To those who reject faith, To the Day of Resurrection:
Then shall ye all return unto me, And I will judge Between you of the matters wherein ye dispute."

Here we see that Allah Almighty promised Jesus peace be upon him to raise him to heaven.

Jesus was charged by the Jews with blasphemy as claiming to be God or the son of God.
The Christians (except a few early sects which were annihilated by persecution, and the modern sect of Unitarians), adopted the substance of the claim, and made it the cornerstone of their faith.

Allah Almighty, in the Quran, clears Jesus of such a charge or claim.
Those who follow Jesus are the Muslims and some Christians who don't believe he is God.
All of the controversies about dogma and faith will disappear when we appear before Allah.
He will judge not by what we profess but what we are.

iii). In chapter 5:47: The Quran says the Jews were rebellious "Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

iv). In chapter 5:69: The Quran says if only the Jews had followed the Laws of Moses and Gospel of Jesus (Not gospel by other writers)
"If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil."

v). In the same verse above 4:156-159 ".....He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."

vi). In the verse 4:171-172 ".....Commit no excesses in your religion....."

vii). In the same verse 4:171-172 ".....Say not "Trinity": desist....."

viii). In 4:156-159 ".....To serve and worship Allah....."
Patni
#37 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 10:09:13 PM
Rank: Hello

Joined: 8/24/2012
Posts: 1
The religion which most of us affiliate to is the one one our parents brought us up in and we also pass it on to our children. Even when we depart from it and live a life of paganism, we find ourselves going back to it later in life or even when one is being buried. The above contributors are defending the religions they were brought up in and i believe that if they they were born in another, they will still defend it. Bottom line is that matters on what religion should be left to our parents to argue.
AlphDoti
#38 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:42:06 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2008
Posts: 6,275
Location: Kenya
Patni wrote:
The religion which most of us affiliate to is the one one our parents brought us up in and we also pass it on to our children. Even when we depart from it and live a life of paganism, we find ourselves going back to it later in life or even when one is being buried. The above contributors are defending the religions they were brought up in and i believe that if they they were born in another, they will still defend it. Bottom line is that matters on what religion should be left to our parents to argue.


Actually, every child is born in a state Fitra.
That means, every baby when born has recognition of God, a Creator imprinted in the soul, as a part of their nature.

It's the parents who make that child a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist.

You see, child submits to physical laws of universe, the soul too submits naturally to fact that God is his Lord and Creator.

But, the parents try to make him follow their own way (read religion) and child at that early age is not strong enough to resist or oppose the will of his parents - customs and upbringing.

Now when you reach adulthood,
- you need to use your mind,
- INVESTIGATE
- Why should you be blind to something that might have impact on your life?
- and come into your own conclusion

It might surprise you when I tell you that I was born and raised in Catholic home and came to Islam on my own!

What happened?
- I used to be curious about believes of other religions. When I was the university, I studied them
- And guess what I found alot of questionable things in the Church. The more I thought about the beliefs in church, the more I saw more and the more I questioned. Eventually I stopped going to church completely because whenever I questioned some things that were not making sense, I was told "Just belief"

When I researched Islam, I discovered that it's teachings are making sense e.g. commandments of God including where God said
- "I'm the Only God, there is no other" (which the church violated by trinity)
- "Do not draw, or mold, or carve or ... images of anything in heaven, air, water and earth" (which the church violated)
- "Do not bow down to those things" (which the church violated)
NaiCity
#39 Posted : Sunday, September 30, 2012 11:54:56 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/29/2010
Posts: 35
Location: Nairobi
It is still religion AND worst of ALL it is MOON WORSHIP!

Yahwe NEVER called us to worship him LEAST OF ALL crawl on all fours!


Yahuweh is God’s name

Yahuweh will always be God’s name, no matter who you are, what language you speak, or where you live. Yahuweh is the God who established the Covenant with Abraham.


Yahuweh is God’s name
NaiCity
#40 Posted : Monday, October 01, 2012 12:01:23 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 12/29/2010
Posts: 35
Location: Nairobi
We are all, regardless of our race, nationality, age, or gender, “qara’ – called and invited” to “shama’ – listen to” the “Towrah – Instructions” so that we might “lamad – learn what God has to say to us and be properly guided.” Those who avail themselves of this opportunity come to “yare’ – respect and revere” Yahowah, our God. Moreover, they become Towrah “shamar – observant,” which motivates them to “‘asah – act upon and actively engage on behalf of” “kol – all” of the “dabar – words, statements, messages, and concepts” presented within “ha Towrah – the Torah.”

We are not invited to pick and choose our way through the Torah, or ignore as obsolete any of its themes. Simply stated, those who revere and respect Yahowah observe and do what He says in His Torah. And that would make Christians, who ignore and disregard most all of God’s Word, complete hypocrites who are only fooling themselves.

If this statement is true, then there is no religion which is true. And if this statement is false, then Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Mormonism are false because they all acknowledge that these words were inspired by God.

The purpose of the Torah is to teach us to revere and respect Yahowah, and for us to observe and pursue what He says. Period.

===

God is not so small that all of Him will fit into the form of a man.
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