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of migingo crisis and dwindling fortunes for uganda
BAAK
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 2:45:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 70
UG decision to encroach on Kenya has been given a lot of publicity among leading news agencies of the world. But everyone familiar with the case knows that UG’s encroachment onto Kenya is illegal and uncalled for. All indications are that UG was actually spoiling to get into actual war with Kenya for no good reason. All their actions point to this direction. Kenya on the other hand has acted very mature.

But within the last 3 months,UG has seen its Shilling depreciate in comparison to the Kenya Shilling by not less than 25%. Why? My take is that foreign investors and tourists are now shunning UG due to its seemingly confrontational and rebellious nature. The interview Kaguta had with BBC the other day was the final straw on the camel’s back. Which investor of means would go all out to invest in a country with unpredictable foreign policy? UG is digging own grave,but this maybe is a blessing in disguise for competitor Kenya. Why? Looking at the unfolding situation,Kenya is undoubtedly the more stable,objective and reasonable country where you can put your investment and sleep in peace
Obi 1 Kanobi
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:05:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
And Museveni is standing up as the tinpot dictator that he has always been and whom the mzungu all so love to use and dump.

Me thinks,Kagame and Kikwete are also rising up to take up his position while kenya leaders continue their cliff top death dance.

Kweli asante ya Punda ni mateke,does Museveni know that the biggest source of FDI in UG is Kenya.

Rwandans are also currently benefitting from our FDI's.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Kaigangio
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:13:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ BAAK,

Another way of looking at the situation,though i stand to be corrected...I think this could be an economic ploy by Kampala to unofficially and deliberately devalue the Ush against the hard currency and hence the ksh to shun or limit the Kenyan imports into Uganda..... just a thought.


NEVER TALK OF A RHINO IF THERE IS NO TREE NEAREBY - ZULU PROVERB
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Obi 1 Kanobi
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 3:36:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Kaigangio

Such a move cannot work unless you have a favourable balance of payments.

The effect to the Ugandans will be to pay more for imports like petroleum and fuel products,steel,plastics this will lead to inflation that will also increase the prices of locally manufactured goods.


I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
Kaigangio
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2009 4:00:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ kanobi,

i am not a financial expert but i think we are more or less talking about the same thing (the effect),but dont forget that any devaluation of a currency ends up favouring the exporter and the weaker the currency the better for a net exporter....

Probably M7 would now have a genuine excuse of sourcing his commodities elsewhere but Nairobi.


NEVER TALK OF A RHINO IF THERE IS NO TREE NEAREBY - ZULU PROVERB
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
mozenrat
#6 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 6:31:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
@Kaigangio

Why would he want to do that?...

Also,it wouldn't work...

any devaluation of the UG currency arising from this crisis would be across the board i.e. against all other currencies...

In effect,regardless of the 'sources' m7 selects over Kenya,UG ends up paying more...

Further,he is unlikely to find a cheaper alternative for as a source than Kenya is (Mombasa is the nearest sea port for UG)...

You’re right about exporters gaining more but UG is a net importer just like Kenya is and will always be hurt by a weak currency..

Bareta
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:29:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/5/2008
Posts: 86
@BAAK,

You sound to me like Alfred Mutua,that man from Dubai when you say the following: 'Looking at the unfolding situation,Kenya is undoubtedly the more stable,objective and reasonable country where you can put your investment and sleep in peace'

The last time I checked this country was not even at peace with itself! What with the unhealed wounds of PEV (these are rotting from within),Mungiki menace,uprooting of the railway line. A slight provocation today can spark off widespread violence!

Against the backdrop of all these,we have a concoction of bitter herbs in water and kerosene in the name of a Coalition govt. Endless bickering,infighting,corruption,lack of leadership,and you want to convince me that we are stable,objective and reasoble!!!! Puliizz.

There is something called a Country's sovereignty and pride. This must be defended,the same way you would jealously defend your house and family members. You aren't going to tell me that someone can break into your house,sleep with your wife as you watch joyfully and claim it is because you are peace-loving!!

Let's not legitimise our ills by living in self denial. Let's accept that they are there and deal with them.


Chief
Kaigangio
#8 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:41:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ mozenrat,

If i read correctly and i again i stand to be corrected,some of the basic pros and cons of devaluation are:

Pros

The locally manufactured goods and services become cheaper and more competitive to external (foreign) buyers. This has an effect of boosting the demand for domestic products in the international scene.
The increased level of exports should lead to an improvement in the current account deficit.
The increased exports and aggregate demand normally leads to higher rates of economic growth.

Cons:



Devaluation causes inflation because the importation of goods and services become more expensive. It also happens that the firms / exporters have less incentive to cut costs because they can rely on the devaluation to improve competitiveness.


It reduces the purchasing power of citizens abroad. For example it becomes more expensive for people to holiday or carry out business trips etc outside the country.


A large and rapid devaluation may scare off international investors. It makes investors less willing to hold government debt because it is effectively reducing the value of their holdings.


Consider Uganda's case on the above. Ugandas exports is mainly Agriculture based and some considerable tourism....and now oil is about to be exported. The way i see it it might be more advantageous for uganda for the weak currency



I believe M7s actions and the don't care attitude that he is potraying now clearly indicates that he could have done his homework well and probably has realised something that Nairobi should be well afraid of.....


NEVER TALK OF A RHINO IF THERE IS NO TREE NEAREBY - ZULU PROVERB
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Djinn
#9 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:07:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
Baak,I concur with Bareta - there is no way you can say Kenya is more stable. Even with the LRA problem,Uganda is much more stable in terms of the population. M7 might be a dictator and expansionist but the triggers for distabilisation do not exists like they do here - they have barely noticeable tribalism,generally good food security,lower prices of basics (owing to abundance in rain,etc). Here we are skating on thin ice near the end of winter...PEV,corruption,near total break down in law and order,human rights issues,famine,elec/water shortages (tell me which investor would come to a country where the workforce alone is held hostage by so many variables - which business will thrive in an unjust business environment - after Triton....after Track It....who has any doubts about the levelness of this playing field.....there are more things behind the scenes and thanks to international political expediency,they may not see the light of the day......your argument is flawed...the premises fallacious....

The problem with equality is that we desire that it be with those that have more than us rather that those that have less
hismak
#10 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:09:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/8/2006
Posts: 8
how much is uganda likely to make from oil,
if museveni uses petro dollars like saddam to create a large military force kenya should brace for more trouble
we should quickly sort our political mess and put this country on accerated economic growth to make sure we are always stronger then our nieghbours
mozenrat
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:19:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
@Kaigangio.... Ur arguments and facts cannot be disputed but again UG's exports for 2008 were about $2 Billion and imports amounted to $3.5 Billion... the so called oil deposits are of poor quality useful only for making paraffin... Assuming that the Paraffin exports will be adequate to make up the Exports/import differential,why would m7 then go ahead and increase his import (and export) costs by going through a different more expensive port rather than Mombasa?
psmujo
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:29:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/19/2007
Posts: 2
@BAAK,what do you base your facts on? Paraffin ummm
BAAK
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 2:09:00 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 70
What we are saying is that Uganda Shilling has depreciated by 30% in the last 4 months. Read the Business Daily of 18 May 09 to understand. Though some are saying this is as a result of global crises,why hasn’t Kenya & TZ been affected the same way yet they are in the same zone? Let’s agree…the aggressiveness of Uganda has scared many potential investors and tourists…..and this has had an effect on foreign direct investment.. hence contributing to some negative effect on their shilling.
Kaigangio
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 4:07:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
@ mozenrat,

i believe the $1.5b trade deficit will be partially offset by the increased exports. Also the Dodoma government is getting their infrustructure in order more so from Dar to Dodoma to Mwanza and Bukoba. It will be cheaper for Kampala to import their goods through Dar port which is cheaper in terms of port charges...


NEVER TALK OF A RHINO IF THERE IS NO TREE NEAREBY - ZULU PROVERB
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Obi 1 Kanobi
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:53:00 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/23/2008
Posts: 3,017
@Kaigangio

Which specific goods does Uganda stand to benefit were it to devalue its currency. And in any way,how exactly do you suppose they are devaluing their currency.

Remember currency valuation will only work if you can control the prices,e.g UG exports coffee,should they devalue their currency agaiinst the $,the International prices will remain constant while UG will be getting artificially higher local prices but which they will still spend importing petrol. On top of this,they will have to spend more money since they import more than they export.

Secondly,the southern route will always be a dream,I honestly have no idea what TZdians do,the port is so clogged that vessel surcharge is practically double what is chargeable at Kilindini. Secondly because of the amount of cargo traffic at Mombasa,its easier to get vessels landing than Dar .

My take is that at this point,UG needs its currency to strengthen up,the main reason is that they will need to import very expensive oil extraction and related equipment. This sought of capital expenditure will put added strain on the countries import bill. Secondly a weak/unstable currency will attract higher interest payments and additional hedging costs from the foreign loans that they will need to borrow to develop its oil fields.

My guess is that the reason for the UG currency decline has to do with the oil,the countries currency had already factored in the oil discoveries,now with the low cost of oil,the sustained development of alternative fuels and the lack of credit and the quality of the oil plus its under a lake. This find is becoming less and less atractive to prospective investors. If I was M7,I would be boarding a plane for china,they seem to have an endless supply of cash.



I guess if you can't win with facts,you can always pen bile-laced,xenophobic rants to distract everyone.
"The purpose of bureaucracy is to compensate for incompetence and lack of discipline." James Collins
xxxxx
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:50:00 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 503
@ Obi

They have already entered into an agreement with Iran to fund Oil Processing

http://www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/12/681654

Wouldn't be surprised if Iran kept some nuclear stuff in Kampala away from the UN


beware the irrational exuberance on the NSE
mozenrat
#17 Posted : Thursday, May 21, 2009 7:58:00 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Indeed Kaigangio... Maybe Tz may end up being the cheaper route... but this being Africa,I would exercise caution before burning my bridges with Kenya... (we know the history of white elephants that stalks our continent)... From Obi's post,the Dar port appears to be doing much worse than we are (didn't think that was possible)... However,now I ask myself,why haven't Rwanda and Burundi followed suit...
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