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why this persistent cyclic trend at NSE?
BAAK
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 8:20:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2008
Posts: 70

PREAMBLE

The current cyclic trend at NSE,whereby stocks keep rising marginally and then falling soon thereafter and vice versa,and the fact that even undervalued blue chips like EB,CFC,BBK,etc have been unable to break out of this trend seems to have baffled many a financial expert / gurus. Can we attempt to explain this phenomenon?

Here’s my layman's take….

For the purpose of this post,I will categorize traders at NSE into three groups:

(a) Long term investors with an outlook of 1yr and above like Young,Mukiha and myself
(b) Short term investors with an outlook of upto yr like Ectasy,Pablo etc
(c) Active traders or speculators like jammo,eli,etc

· If market is dominated by steady investment by (a) and (b),you find stocks generally appreciating (i.e. bull market)
· If market is dominated by steady offloads by (a) and (b),you find stocks generally depreciating (i.e. bear market)
· If market is dominated by (c),you get a cyclic market. And this is what we are currently witnessing at NSE. Thus,EB goes up to 190 one moment,the following week we are back to 160-150 levels as speculators cash in to make gains. Likewise Safcom goes up 10cts,the following day it loses 10cts! In between you find 30m shares have been traded.

Looking through all jammo’s posts (and I respect his insight),he seems to have this firm mindset that everyone is an active trader / speculator. Thus in one of his posts he advises ‘guys’ to avoid buying CO-OP now since it is likely to go down in Feb etc,etc. But has he considered that some people at SK are long-term investors with an outlook of 5+yrs and it is perfectly OK for them to buy CO-OP even at 11/-? These long-term investors are also ‘guys’ right?

Polished stock gurus do not give specific advice on what to buy at what particular price / time through the press or open forums like SK. This is because such info can be misleading. A share that may not be good for a speculator at any one time may be very good for a long-term investor and vice versa. So Jammo et el let’s desist from assuming everyone is a speculator OK?

Of course someone will say that everyone is free to make own decision regardless of the ‘advise’ posted here. But recently NSE seems to have been infiltrated by speculators – thus resulting into the cyclic trends that seem to be headed nowhere. I do not know who reads SK. But I believe some fund managers and high net worth individuals do. Now,if these guys have followed advise given here by jammo et al,and have switched from value investing to speculating,then we are doomed - likely to see more of this cyclic trend. A counter rises one moment,then falls the next moment as everyone rushes to cash in.

In such a market,if someone is not in a position to do active trading like jammo,eli,etc,I think their cash is better of in real estate – plots,houses,etc and T bills.

What do others think? Why do we have a turn-over of over 100m every day at NSE and yet no stock seems to sustain a steady rise? please I have heard enough about global financial crises,post election violence,January expenses,inflation,liquidity,etc,so spare me from these.....
Mainat
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 14, 2009 9:41:00 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 1,590
BAAK- some free advice. Investing in stocks as opposed to trading in stocks is all about fundamentals. Fundamentals will be flat as a snooker table this yr. Hence its the yr of traders.

My humble opinion...

www.mjengakenya.blogspot.com
Sehemu ndio nyumba
eli
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:32:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 294
@ BAAK
You are very right. Some of us,needs cash every month,if not everyweek and everyday! I cannot wait for 5 years to get cash. No. Not at all.

Why on earth,should I for example,buy EB at 131bob,and it rises to 192,and having made a cool 61bob,pure profits,JUST SIT THERE AND WATCH IT DROP! I know too well,that it will drop and you want me to just sit there and watch it drop? Really?

Well,If you have read the book,The Stock Trader,by Tony Oz (That book,when brand new,it goes for Kshs. 70,000,I bought a second hand at 13,000). You will realize that you can make alot of cash on speculation. THAN JUST SITTING THERE waiting for the stock to make big capital gains! Sample this,KQ was 8bob,in Nov 2004. It went up to 138bob in 2006 and hence people made super profits! Now if you were waiting for your 5+ years,man,the dem share have gone down,from 138 bob,to a paltry 28bob! Now,HAVE U LOST OR HAVE YOU GAINED,BY YOUR 'LONG TERM INVESTMENT STRATEGY?'

A class 1 will tell you that 138-8bob,is 130bob( pure profits) and its bigger than 28bob-8bob,hence take profits when time allows. DONT JUST SIT THERE!

To everybody else,please invest as your conscience allows you to! The current prices are too discounted for long term investments. You will gain in the long run and gain big time. Use fundamentals ( works perfect in bullish market). But in the bear market we are in,let some of us,who needs cash every day,go the speculative way (its very dangerous,we burn our fingers at times,when u make wrong choices).

Conclusion: Speculation is too hard to resist,if you've mastered how the market works. Too hard to resist! Its easy money,free money,its like money falling from a tree. Its like the river of cash. Too juicy to let go!

A billionaire in waiting!
rusty
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 5:51:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/7/2009
Posts: 8
I would like to agree with BAAK that the cyclic trend is to be blamed on shortterm investors and speculator activity at the NSE. I would like to point out that prior to the listing of Kengen,that proprotion of retail investors at the bourse was very minimal,thats why this kind of trends was not that popular.I would like to point out that most retail investors view the bourse as an alternative source of income and given the high infaltionary periods we are living it justifys the speculative behaviour as people try to make ends meet.

ruckus,no relations
Kiz
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 7:22:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/6/2008
Posts: 13
@BAAK

Everyone has their own approach to investing as you clearly pointed out in the type of investors a,b,c. You make a choice where your competetiveness is and hence no need to blame ant particular class. The game is to win and whichever way as long as you win


Kim
kaka2za
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:48:00 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/3/2008
Posts: 4,058
Location: Gwitu
@ eli I would break the bank to get that book.

I am a self made man and I owe my lack of success to nobody.
Truth forever on the scaffold
Wrong forever on the throne
(James Russell Rowell)
maasai
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:22:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/18/2007
Posts: 11
BAAK you had started it very well but somewhere along the way it seems you a trying to discourage speculators.

another thing is that you should encourage the likes of jammo because he is straight forward and usually give reasonable reasons as to why he is of a certain opinion...the reason why s.k. is so popular is because contributors here are straight forward unlike broker reports,its upto to those reading to know that this are just opinions and not neccessary gospel truth...

I will always prefer to make 30% return after say 3months than to wait 5years to get 50%...


A penny SAVED is a penny wasted if not INVESTED.
VituVingiSana
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:13:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,362
Location: Nairobi
It is simple... buy a company not shares...

Look at KQ at 29/- yet they will have a better year even with the GFT coz they get revenue in USD. Plus oil prices have dropped.

(There are more complex explanations for the above but this is not the forum)

Another is KCB which can absorb the Triton loss and go onto a record 2009. Plus KCB can sue KPC (government).

Short-term both the above look 'bad' but longer term????

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#9 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:16:00 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,362
Location: Nairobi
Good news. It takes all sorts!

If we were all in it for the long-term then when would we get cheaper prices (e.g. KCB,KQ) or sell when the prices are sky-high?

Overall as long as there is no manipulation or inside information,I say thanks for the ups & downs!

Greedy when others are fearful,Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase WB
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
maasai
#10 Posted : Thursday, January 15, 2009 10:42:00 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/18/2007
Posts: 11
Consider this,speculators will always be in this market or rather any other market and will always affect the price trend of any share...therefore buying for long term without putting into consideration the effects of speculators and/or s.t investor is like trying to win boxing march using one hand... use various tools to gauge the decisions of both investors and traders i.e fundamentals and technical...

A penny SAVED is a penny wasted if not INVESTED.
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