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"I Will Not Apologize" -- Caroline Mutoko Responds to Plagiarism Claims
Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following - capacity to be creative - capacity to store information in your head As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/25/2009 Posts: 973
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masukuma wrote:this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following
- capacity to be creative
- capacity to store information in your head
As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! Ditto! I also fail to see the correlation between the two.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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masukuma wrote:this is not school work!! in school work (depending on culture) one has to show the following
- capacity to be creative
- capacity to store information in your head
As a journalist - none of the above is a requirement! it sickens me to place this on the same scale as classwork - its not! School prepares you for the real world. Thus what you learn in school must be applied in the real world. To say that a journalist does not need to be creative and have ability to store information is to completely miss the point! Are you talking about a true journalist or a quack? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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masukuma wrote:Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' No one said she needs to change. All we are saying is she needs to ACKNOWLEDGE that it is someone else' work not her original work. That's all. In any case, if you join a profession - like journalism - you have to comply with the "best practices" of such profession..... it's that simple. I believe you've seen books, even academic books, that have references at the back of the book. that's what "references" are meant for - acknowledging other people's work. Kibaki's example would be inappropriate in this context.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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masukuma wrote:Wendz wrote:MKWASI wrote:mukiha wrote:A write never copies anything without acknowledging the source... and checking for copyright restrictions before using a large part of it...
A serious writer, doesn't even copy himself/herself without acknowledging that he/she had published the same words at a different time or publications.
This is the reason why you will see the likes of Sunny Bindra writing something like: "In 1997, I wrote in the East African that 'A man like Mwai Kibaki can change the way Kenyans view the concept of developmental...'" He is quoting himself and he tells the reader that this is not the first time he is using those words.
So the question really is: is Mutoko serious about her writing? @Mukiha...Writing is a different art altogether. Portraying your ignorance in writing, is just irreversable. I think She should just stick to radio (you can say something today and deny tomorrow borrowing a leaf from our Mpigs). she ain't doing well either on that radio front but it will save her albeit for the time being! This boils down to what people read. If you appreciate good writing, you'll definitely be pissed off with copy and paste because chances are that you've read it elsewhere or even if you've not, you do not want, in future, to quote the wrong source and give credit to the "copy paster". why? you have read it before - skip it! if she felt that the contents of the material she read somewhere else was exactly what she would have told herself 20 years ago - why change? so that we can comply with external ideals? think about it - when Kibaki insulted people who annoyed him 'Kubaff, Mafi ya Kuku'. Do we have to reference him when we dismiss other people of similar behaviours? As Kibaki says - 'wewe ni Kubaff, Mafi ya kuku' @Masukuma ..yours is a simplistic rationalization and its totally wrong. There are professional writing ethics and all journalists should follow them. Heck, there are copyright laws to protect against it. If you copied an academic paper and got caught you would fail. A Romanian PM or Minister had to resign just because of such a transgression. Plagiarism is the equivalent of finding a squatter has allocated him/herself a part of (or all of) your house as his/her living quarters after you sweat blood and tears to construct it. In the absence of a credit and reference, it is pissing on the person who sat and thought long and hard to come up with an original piece. How do you not get it?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!!  He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/19/2008 Posts: 4,268
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Elder wrote:alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!! Sometimes it is easier to deal with legal issues than confidence/trust issues if you are in certain businesses. If your readers start wondering if your writers can think for themselves or if they can give accurate information, then you have an elephant convincing the same readers to buy your, say paper, or listen to you. if you face this challenge, how then do you compete with the rest in the market?
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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Wendz wrote:Elder wrote:alma wrote:@Elder, what I have said is exactly what is done. Go look at all the big and small media houses around the world. In fact the best in this business can quote the whole story and even the headings as long as they leave the link.
Quote, then provide a link.
Lawyers can always come back later to argue as they usually do. Leaving you cease and desist orders. Doesn't mean that they ever stick infact, I've never seen one that stuck. If you have please do tell.
Back at you Elder, go read about curation. There is no website on this earth that doesn't do it.
Whether it is done that way or not (which is debatable) is immaterial. My issue is with your unequivocal statement that because the star did not provide a quote plus the link back to the article they are courting more problem - problems which could cause them to shut down their online paper. Now which type of problem is that? It is clearly not legal problems becuase they have neither done anything there illegal nor infringed on any Intellectual Property. alma wrote:They must be included when writing other people's stuff. Now they are courting more problems by quoting the Huffington Post. I promise them, they might shut down that online paper at this rate.
Seriously!! Sometimes it is easier to deal with legal issues than confidence/trust issues if you are in certain businesses. If your readers start wondering if your writers can think for themselves or if they can give accurate information, then you have an elephant convincing the same readers to buy your, say paper, or listen to you. if you face this challenge, how then do you compete with the rest in the market? @Wendz by the time I read about the Mutoko thing she had allegedly edited her work to 'hide her crime' (copyright infringement is a crime in Kenya) so I do not to just how much copying was done, if at all. I have consequently not commented on that particular issue. My posts on this thread have been on one issue where I believe @alma has been misleading people -that a reference to information from another article MUST be quoted and LINKED to otherwise it could lead to problems so big it can shut down the online presence of a media house. Now how can disclosing the source of the information that you use in an article lead to confidence/trust issues merely because you never provided a link to it? He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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"I Will Not Apologize" -- Caroline Mutoko Responds to Plagiarism Claims
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