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Robert Alai on Bob and Safaricom board
alma
#21 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 2:13:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
"what mechanisms are in place to secure the safety of mama mboga's funds in case safaricom goes belly up?"

Selah you have not answered that question.

CBK is not the law. The law is the law. Is there a law not a license that is being broken or followed or not?

Dismissing this lady may not be very wise especially with the new judiciary out there.

I wouldn't mind being schooled on this but dismissing her is not the way to go.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
alma
#22 Posted : Friday, September 21, 2012 2:31:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
by the way, just seen that lady's twitter. She's nuts. haha.

But being not a legal expert, she does have an interesting question.

Lakini, that is one crazy lady.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
Kausha
#23 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 10:40:36 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
The reality is CBK is quite hapless on supervision and in understanding the spirit of its mandate. As we blog banks continue to fleece borrowers in the guise of a CBR rate that has since come down but banks defiantly continue to ensure they get their targets and bonuses by continuing to levy the same rates they levied in January this year.

The truth of the matter is that MPESA is a crude money transfer mechanism in its current state that would struggle to pass through any decent regulator's threshold for a money transfer service. However what is important is the nobility of MPESA. It has a big social impact that even the money safcom makes from it. This I believe is the problem. CBK is behaving populist by applauding the nobility alongside the rest of us without realizing that should something go wrong we will blame CBK squarely.

The risks of MPESA is that
1. It's not backed by any capital. Safcom have simply taken deposits and passed on the risks of the deposits to CBA. I doubt CBA's capital is sufficient enough to cover it's deposits and those of Safcom. However Safcom fungas macho CBK but banking the net banked positions from dealers which is a palty sum compared to sums sitting with agents at any one time. Most of the sums are sitting with MPESA agents in their accounts although these banks don't sit with the risk.
2. The deposits from advantage form a critical mass that should compel CBK to order safcom to have these deposits sitting in an escrow account or with a fund manager for the owners to earn a decent return. I am certain Safcom is probably sitting with more than $100m from advantage clients which it has used to finance it's capex.
3. The okoa jahazi is sham and is illegal. They call it advance but they collect the interest upfront. This is 'shylocking' which is I believe illegal. Again a CBK incompetence. Imagine okoaing jahazi at 50bob in the morning and paying in the evening. This works out to at least 10% for the day, 3,650% for the month and 19,000,000% effective annual rate. Consider more clients okoa jahazi in a day than entire populations of some tier 1 banks. Well no bank earns close to this and again CBK lost in the nobility! Even suppliers don't charge such sums for extended credit.
poundfoolish
#24 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 11:44:23 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/2/2009
Posts: 2,458
Location: Nairobi
@Kausha

I thought the Agents deposit some money with the banks 'float' of which they carry out Mpesa transactions with..?

as for Okoa Jahazi.. the simplicity of it regardless of the shylocking, works.. Somebody could sue on legality and the fine lines in the print but when it comes to practicability, purpose, terms and conditions, Okoa Jahazi is a problem solver.
mawinder
#25 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 12:26:20 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/30/2008
Posts: 6,029
Kausha,your figures on the rates for okoa jahazi are mind boggling.Even shylocks in wazua don't charge that much and is safaricom really licensed as a lending institution?
digitek1
#26 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 4:40:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/3/2010
Posts: 1,797
Location: Kenya
where do they take all these sums given the lackluster performance of the share
they should be competing with the banks
I may be wrong..but then I could be right
murchr
#27 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 6:07:33 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kausha wrote:
The reality is CBK is quite hapless on supervision and in understanding the spirit of its mandate. As we blog banks continue to fleece borrowers in the guise of a CBR rate that has since come down but banks defiantly continue to ensure they get their targets and bonuses by continuing to levy the same rates they levied in January this year.

The truth of the matter is that MPESA is a crude money transfer mechanism in its current state that would struggle to pass through any decent regulator's threshold for a money transfer service. However what is important is the nobility of MPESA. It has a big social impact that even the money safcom makes from it. This I believe is the problem. CBK is behaving populist by applauding the nobility alongside the rest of us without realizing that should something go wrong we will blame CBK squarely.

The risks of MPESA is that
1. It's not backed by any capital. Safcom have simply taken deposits and passed on the risks of the deposits to CBA. I doubt CBA's capital is sufficient enough to cover it's deposits and those of Safcom. However Safcom fungas macho CBK but banking the net banked positions from dealers which is a palty sum compared to sums sitting with agents at any one time. Most of the sums are sitting with MPESA agents in their accounts although these banks don't sit with the risk.
2. The deposits from advantage form a critical mass that should compel CBK to order safcom to have these deposits sitting in an escrow account or with a fund manager for the owners to earn a decent return. I am certain Safcom is probably sitting with more than $100m from advantage clients which it has used to finance it's capex.
3. The okoa jahazi is sham and is illegal. They call it advance but they collect the interest upfront. This is 'shylocking' which is I believe illegal. Again a CBK incompetence. Imagine okoaing jahazi at 50bob in the morning and paying in the evening. This works out to at least 10% for the day, 3,650% for the month and 19,000,000% effective annual rate. Consider more clients okoa jahazi in a day than entire populations of some tier 1 banks. Well no bank earns close to this and again CBK lost in the nobility! Even suppliers don't charge such sums for extended credit.


I have a few questions....whats the need of backing the money with capital yet its not a saving instrument rather a mechanism to pass money from one person/institution to the other? 70% of the money deposited leaves the account almost immediately and 88% leaves the account on the same day. What MPESA does is what POSTA, AKAMBA and other bus services used to do..charge to transport money from one end to the other but on a wider scale.

On okoa jahazi....I thot safcom sell you a product called "airtime" but since ur taking it on credit, your charged 5/- to cover the risk...The probability of not paying back the airtime is very high and isnt the 10% charge worth it? Just like Mama mboga would charge u a shilling extra when u take her tomatoes on credit, to me thats just smart business.






"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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alma
#28 Posted : Monday, September 24, 2012 6:17:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@kausha you have brought up weighty matters.

Don't expect the safcom group to answer that in english. You will end up being called crazy like the girl on twitter.

No one seems to answer the question.

It will be coded with words like "Kenya is different", "kenyans are peculiar", "niko na safaricom".
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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