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KenolKobil posts Sh3.89b half year loss
VituVingiSana
#21 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:14:38 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
kyt wrote:
mkonotupu, if the controlls were not there, u could be paying 300 a litre, those hedge loses would have been lumped, to you. do you want a scenario like KPLC, where a company raises tariffs with no justification? socialist kitu gani???
@mkonomtupu is right. The volatile exchange rate (80 to 107 to 82) within a very short frame, the socialist price controls that do not take into account financing costs (14% to 32% and now slowly reducing), industry problems (KPRL, KPA & KPC are 'protected' monopolies), etc hurt ALL businesses.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
VituVingiSana
#22 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 1:25:21 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
kyt wrote:
mkonotupu, if the controlls were not there, u could be paying 300 a litre, those hedge loses would have been lumped, to you. do you want a scenario like KPLC, where a company raises tariffs with no justification? socialist kitu gani???
There is a formula used by KPLC. A little research would do wonders but like many Kenyans you want the easy way out.
The formula was set up years ago when oil prices were $40/bbl & KShs 62/$. Oil is now $115/bbl & KShs 85/$.
Unfortunately, Kenya does not have huge hydropower potential. Kenyans breed like rabbits. 6mn in 1963 & an estimated 44mn in 2012. The forests (water catchment areas) have decimated from 12% cover in 1963 to 2-4% today.
All these leads to an increase in electricity generation using Thermal Power aka oil fuel. Kenya does not use coal to generate electricity.

Yes, the government slacked off for many, many years though it's Kenyans who elected the same crooks over & over again. In 1992 & 1997, many Kenyans stupidly voted in daniel moi instead of coalescing behind a single (opposition) presidential candidate.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mkeiyd
#23 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 5:10:31 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/26/2012
Posts: 1,182
If the KK's bad H1 results came about due to hedging and falling international crude prices in the beginning of the year, meaning KK was selling otherwise expensive stock, would it not follow that, the H2, will see significant jump in profitability since the two factors above won't be in the play?
murchr
#24 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 5:55:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Now we know why PUMA was insisting on retrenchment and costs cuts. They must have seen this coming.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
guru267
#25 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 7:00:25 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
mkeiyd wrote:
If the KK's bad H1 results came about due to hedging and falling international crude prices in the beginning of the year, meaning KK was selling otherwise expensive stock, would it not follow that, the H2, will see significant jump in profitability since the two factors above won't be in the play?


My friend it is Babylon in the making... There is no reversing a 4 billion loss into profitability...

Best case scenario for FY 2012 will be a net loss of 1billion! & no dividend!
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
maka
#26 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 7:41:36 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
Speechless...
possunt quia posse videntur
mwenza
#27 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 7:47:15 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2009
Posts: 2,863
Stress central...Can a listed company be investigated for making an abnormal loss?
IF YOU EXPECT ME TO POST ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT ASENO, YOU MAY AS WELL SIT ON A PIN
simonkabz
#28 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 7:50:24 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/2/2007
Posts: 8,776
Location: Cameroon
Avai!!
TULIA.........UFUNZWE!
maka
#29 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 7:50:31 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 4/22/2010
Posts: 11,522
Location: Nairobi
This thing only looks bad on paper last years 2.8B profit would have been much lower if the foreign currency loss had been factored in...H2 will definetly be much better and as someone said it will probably be a 1B loss or even lower come full year...One bad decision,nothing much.
possunt quia posse videntur
PKoli
#30 Posted : Saturday, September 08, 2012 10:50:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/10/2007
Posts: 1,587
guru267 wrote:
mkeiyd wrote:
If the KK's bad H1 results came about due to hedging and falling international crude prices in the beginning of the year, meaning KK was selling otherwise expensive stock, would it not follow that, the H2, will see significant jump in profitability since the two factors above won't be in the play?


My friend it is Babylon in the making... There is no reversing a 4 billion loss into profitability...

Best case scenario for FY 2012 will be a net loss of 1billion! & no dividend!


FY2012 dividend is not an issue..PUMA will have taken this thing..
mlennyma
#31 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:02:03 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
We share the news with equal pain,same way we will rejoice with equal joy when we reach canaan.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
VituVingiSana
#32 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:04:51 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
KK has a case pending vs KPC. Too bad it has been delayed in the courts. A win would mitigate the loss occasioned by the forex losses!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mlennyma
#33 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:05:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
Meanwhile iam under blood pressure drugs.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
mlennyma
#34 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:08:05 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/21/2010
Posts: 6,184
Location: nairobi
And losing the kpc case would bleed its a*s to death.
"Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning."
gatoho
#35 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 2:14:58 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/1/2010
Posts: 511
Location: kandara, Murang'a
mkeiyd wrote:
If the KK's bad H1 results came about due to hedging and falling international crude prices in the beginning of the year, meaning KK was selling otherwise expensive stock, would it not follow that, the H2, will see significant jump in profitability since the two factors above won't be in the play?



You hedge for a given period me thinks, so they might still be getting their dollar at a premium..
Foresight..
minto
#36 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 4:06:22 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 12/31/2006
Posts: 13
Most fx hedges that I have seen are for periods of 1, 3,6 or 12 months.

Segman entered into this contracts around August of last year with cash settlements due this half year period.

As a cash flow tool fx hedges have significant upside or downside risk. As a business which makes all payments in USD it is imperative that you have a good understanding of these risks. Their loss shows that they hedged more than 60% of their oil cost requirements.

My 2 cents is that FY 2012 will be a loss.
youcan'tstopusnow
#37 Posted : Sunday, September 09, 2012 6:16:57 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
KK said that the most significant impact was the losses from hedges taken ''in the latter part of 2011 and the first 2 months of 2012"
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#38 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 12:06:42 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
mlennyma wrote:
And losing the kpc case would bleed its a*s to death.
No, coz not booked as a profit anywhere.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mzalendomoja
#39 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 10:56:36 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 7/17/2012
Posts: 14
before things sober up KK will be in the range of 12-13.My haunch tells me that Puma would want to pounce and close the deal in the next 60 days or so.I still believe KK is a good buy.
samsa
#40 Posted : Monday, September 10, 2012 11:35:01 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 5/7/2009
Posts: 155
As part of defence mechanisms, management will always cite international economy, prevailing market conditions, etc for their inefficiencies. Clearly we should not analyse their perfomance by what they say. Capture this;


Cost of sales to Sales ratio 98% (2011) 93% (COS went up in 2012. Why?)
Gross profit to Income ratio 2% (2011) 7%
Growth in sales 25% (2011) 35% (with all the supa sundays campaigns?)
Efficiency ratio b4 exch losses 102% (2011)23% - using gross profit as net income. (Costs?)
Exchange losses to sales 4% (2011) 1%

So, my conclusion is that so many things went wrong in the half year not just hedging. Mr. Jacob Segman, please explain in more clear details that you are not the one running KK down because you already has an offer from PUMA when the buying price is heavily and mercilessly discounted?
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