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Nyong-nyong sacks all striking doctors.
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 9/5/2012 Posts: 5
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Just surprised at some misconceptions
It seems some think they are safe with docs working for free in KNH coz they seek healthcare at Aga, NH .... I guess they don't realize that the doc taking care of them and their kids has done a full days work at KNH and he is damn tired. He comes to job no. 2 because until uchumi start charging half price for sukari if you know the hypocratic oath by heart he has no choice. I leave you to imagine the level of service you are getting. One mama lambasted a doc pal in a private hospital who fell asleep I the middle of her describing her symptoms but really can you blame the doc?
2 nd is medicine training for masters is an apprenticeship. You work. Those registrars (masters students) deliver your fellow citizens babies, treat pneumonias and stitch up your compatriates after political rallies. Isn't it mean to ask him to do it on an empty stomach?
And finally what teaching is going on at 3 am when Kenyans need to be cared for? Si ni kazi tu?
If you say self sponsored should not be paid for services rendered then make the training 9 to 5 like any other non medical masters (this suggestion is tongue in cheek because it will produce quarks and Kenya would go backward)
Perhaps the way forward is to define learning time and work time ands pay guys For work time.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 5/24/2007 Posts: 1,805
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@ Kamundu.... Thank you for giving your side. However,I think Doctors in Kenya still feel they are kings and everyone owes them a good living!!! The problem is that many docs ( Not all) went into this for the money. They have however realized that only the specialists actually make good money and that is after many years of painstaking growth. The younger ones are not willing to put in the hours needed but want instant cash. If you want to do a masters program, either save up and pay for it like all of us or work for it. You cannot have it both ways! eti you earn money and a masters at the same time. No one owes docs a living boss. You need to earn it like the rest of us. If you got family, then hold up the masters till when you can pay for it or better still get a loan and pay for it like we all do. I Think Therefore I Am
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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bwenyenye wrote:@ Kamundu.... Thank you for giving your side. However,I think Doctors in Kenya still feel they are kings and everyone owes them a good living!!! The problem is that many docs ( Not all) went into this for the money. They have however realized that only the specialists actually make good money and that is after many years of painstaking growth. The younger ones are not willing to put in the hours needed but want instant cash. If you want to do a masters program, either save up and pay for it like all of us or work for it. You cannot have it both ways! eti you earn money and a masters at the same time. No one owes docs a living boss. You need to earn it like the rest of us.
If you got family, then hold up the masters till when you can pay for it or better still get a loan and pay for it like we all do. Ndittoest!  Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 10/26/2008 Posts: 380
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Interns salaries have been paid already.
On the issue of registrars, these doctors (yes, they are already doctors) give their services to KNH. You can argue that its "training", in actual sense, they run the hospital. The journey to become a specialist is a gruelling 11 years. They need to be paid for providing expert services to the givt (KNH).
As a country, we have a huge shortfall in terms of doctors. We have very few specialists, and the situation will remain the same for, its time to change some of these policies to grow the country. The government can even tie them for a number of years after training them - a tie in clause in their contracts would suffice.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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Im quite amused at how you guys are quite negative about this. I dont know of any residency program in the world that doesnt compensate registrars for work done after learning hours. Thats why doctors here are forced to go to those private hospitals to hustle to make ends meet. fYI the govt set aside 200m after last years strike to pay residents and pay university fees for the government staff. This money was misappropriated and never reached UoN. Hence the strike. Doctors are human too. You cant expect a 30 something old guy with two kids and a wife and no income working 70hours a week to be at his best when treating patients. Be considerate Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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bwenyenye wrote:@ Kamundu.... Thank you for giving your side. However,I think Doctors in Kenya still feel they are kings and everyone owes them a good living!!! The problem is that many docs ( Not all) went into this for the money. They have however realized that only the specialists actually make good money and that is after many years of painstaking growth. The younger ones are not willing to put in the hours needed but want instant cash. If you want to do a masters program, either save up and pay for it like all of us or work for it. You cannot have it both ways! eti you earn money and a masters at the same time. No one owes docs a living boss. You need to earn it like the rest of us.
If you got family, then hold up the masters till when you can pay for it or better still get a loan and pay for it like we all do. I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/3/2010 Posts: 1,797 Location: Kenya
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ati some of them parrarell doctors dont want to work huko mashinani. Hence they resign/go back to school and promptly go to private hosp after being trained by taxpayer. the best thing is for HELB to pay them then they can pay back once they finish I may be wrong..but then I could be right
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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bwenyenye wrote:@ Kamundu.... Thank you for giving your side. However,I think Doctors in Kenya still feel they are kings and everyone owes them a good living!!! The problem is that many docs ( Not all) went into this for the money. They have however realized that only the specialists actually make good money and that is after many years of painstaking growth. The younger ones are not willing to put in the hours needed but want instant cash. If you want to do a masters program, either save up and pay for it like all of us or work for it. You cannot have it both ways! eti you earn money and a masters at the same time. No one owes docs a living boss. You need to earn it like the rest of us.
If you got family, then hold up the masters till when you can pay for it or better still get a loan and pay for it like we all do. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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bwenyenye wrote:@ Kamundu.... Thank you for giving your side. However,I think Doctors in Kenya still feel they are kings and everyone owes them a good living!!! The problem is that many docs ( Not all) went into this for the money. They have however realized that only the specialists actually make good money and that is after many years of painstaking growth. The younger ones are not willing to put in the hours needed but want instant cash. If you want to do a masters program, either save up and pay for it like all of us or work for it. You cannot have it both ways! eti you earn money and a masters at the same time. No one owes docs a living boss. You need to earn it like the rest of us.
If you got family, then hold up the masters till when you can pay for it or better still get a loan and pay for it like we all do. I can remember my parents and other adults around me extolling the virtues of being a doctor to any child who exhibited some ability to do well in exams. Doctors were supposed to be the cream of intellectual achievement. The way government deals with the issue of health care is partly responsible for this. Even now, doctors are on high demand. A place like Kibera has a population in the order of hundred thousands, but less than twenty doctors. In a hospital like KNH one feels blessed if he/she ever gets to see a doctor without much waiting and postponement. Doctors in Kenya are overwhelmed. And you can imagine the pressure on the young doctors to serve and acquire other levels of competence. I can not say that these doctors have no legitimate concerns. And Nyong'o plus all of us bear the burden of finding the best solutions to these doctor's concerns.
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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@bwenyenye do your homework before you post. Sit down with a registrar/resident and ask them what they go through. Otherwise your comments are quite insesitive. Fyi aga khan has a residency program (masters) and they pay those guys a salary. So does kijabe so does tenwek (fellowships) when you step into this hospitals chances are you will get good service coz that guy is not thinking of where to get Septembers rent. Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/20/2007 Posts: 4,432
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@kamundu give us real numbers and figures. So far we arent moved. maybe numbers will. Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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Eish peeps are brutal no prisoners taken....Round 1:Kamundu you still havent moved anyone. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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Real numbers. Number of doctors in Kenya= 6,500 of whom about 50 to 60 % are in active practice. Doctor to patient ratio 1:10,000. WHO Recommends 1:500. Number of dentists in Kenya = 800 of whom 50% are in active practice Dentist to patient ratio 1:100,000 WHO recommends 1:500 Number of specialists <1000 for a population of 40m. Eg Orthopaedics <50 dermatology <10 neurosurgery<10 oral surgery maxillofacial (dental speciality). <15 nephrology <20 etc etc So why wouldnt the gava want to support masters programs? Whether one is self sponsored or not once they qualify they will be serving kenyans. If you or a loved one needed one of this people, God forbid, and you have to wait for days to see them, you would realise why we need specialists kwa wingi Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/26/2012 Posts: 15,980
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kamundu wrote:Real numbers.
Number of doctors in Kenya= 6,500 of whom about 50 to 60 % are in active practice.
Doctor to patient ratio 1:10,000. WHO Recommends 1:500.
Number of dentists in Kenya = 800 of whom 50% are in active practice
Dentist to patient ratio 1:100,000 WHO recommends 1:500
Number of specialists <1000 for a population of 40m. Eg
Orthopaedics <50
dermatology <10
neurosurgery<10
oral surgery maxillofacial (dental speciality). <15
nephrology <20
etc etc
So why wouldnt the gava want to support masters programs? Whether one is self sponsored or not once they qualify they will be serving kenyans.
If you or a loved one needed one of this people, God forbid, and you have to wait for days to see them, you would realise why we need specialists kwa wingi
I wouldn't mind if the govt supports the doctors for masters as long as they surrender their passport and sign agreements that they will work for the govt for 15 years. I say this because the country trains many doctors most of whom dash out of the country immediately after they graduate for greener pastures in countries that do very little to train their own doctors. "There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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All they are asking is that they are compensated for working after learning hours, otherwise KNH should hire their own doctors to work after classes etc. Those other residency programs have no strings attached. It is a symbiotic relationship Eg aga khan gets to hire committed doctors who on the other hand use the experience to get specialist training. Once their contract is over, they part ways. I rest my case Peace in our Homeland.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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@Kamundu, I thought by figures you lay bare how much yo9u are paid so that we can compare with other proffessions, these are people who want a fat salary plus their masters programs paid for!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/17/2009 Posts: 3,583 Location: Kenya
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kamundu wrote:All they are asking is that they are compensated for working after learning hours, otherwise KNH should hire their own doctors to work after classes etc. Those other residency programs have no strings attached. It is a symbiotic relationship Eg aga khan gets to hire committed doctors who on the other hand use the experience to get specialist training. Once their contract is over, they part ways.
I rest my case I find it odd when comparing aga khan to KNH
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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nakujua wrote:kamundu wrote:All they are asking is that they are compensated for working after learning hours, otherwise KNH should hire their own doctors to work after classes etc. Those other residency programs have no strings attached. It is a symbiotic relationship Eg aga khan gets to hire committed doctors who on the other hand use the experience to get specialist training. Once their contract is over, they part ways.
I rest my case I find it odd when comparing aga khan to KNH ....he wants Aga Khan and KNH to be at par!!!! ..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Member Joined: 5/9/2011 Posts: 786 Location: Mashinani
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McReggae wrote:nakujua wrote:kamundu wrote:All they are asking is that they are compensated for working after learning hours, otherwise KNH should hire their own doctors to work after classes etc. Those other residency programs have no strings attached. It is a symbiotic relationship Eg aga khan gets to hire committed doctors who on the other hand use the experience to get specialist training. Once their contract is over, they part ways.
I rest my case I find it odd when comparing aga khan to KNH ....he wants Aga Khan and KNH to be at par!!!! And why not? Si you want better healthcare? Peace in our Homeland.
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