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Thread for aethists/agnostics.
tycho
#51 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 2:25:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Looking at this thread leaves me with the impression that we do not appreciate the role mythology plays in human affairs. Nay, we do not seem to understand how we should use mythology.

It's like if its not a 'fact' then it's a 'Myth.'

Man it seems, has not yet become conscious of himself.
sky5
#52 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 5:02:14 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 5/7/2010
Posts: 282
Location: Nairobi
@ hamburglar

Some answers to some of your concerns:

This God guy, why does he have to make everything so complicated? he is supposed to be omni everything, right? omniscient, omnipresent etc...

God is simple. Men complicate him by their religions.

... the snap of a finger, he can end all the suffering and doubt and wars, and famine and diseases in an instant...

God gave man the earth and cannot interfere without permission i.e. prayer. Man has a free will to choose good or evil and the consequences of each choice.

Why doesn't he just do that so that we can all just have a good life on this earth?

God gave man the good life, but man throught sin messed this up.

Does he enjoy seeing kids starving death in Africa every 5 minutes when he has the capability of stopping the hurt?


Does he enjoy seeing people suffer untold pain from diseases like cancer and AIDS and yet he can give us a cure in 5 seconds if he realy exists?

God doesn't enjoy human suffering. It hurts HIM and His heart is grived by it. Again He may not intervene because He gave man authority over erath and man submitted that authority to Lucifer (Satan), who, throuth his agents, causes all the suffering on earth.

Why cant He hust give us what we need? Do we have to ask him for stuff?

God has provided with ALL that he needs. ALL the resources of the earth (and universe) were at man's disposal. However, man's disobedience changed this and man must now work to get what he needs.

Why doesn't he just get rid of sin so that we can all live a perfect life on earth.

God actually took care of sin 2000 years ago through Jesus The Christ. When you accept and believe in Jesus, then God perfects. Man will enjoy perfect life in the Millenium when Satan will be bound for 1000 years, and in the New Kingdom when Satan will be eliminated from the universe.

..There is too much suffering in this earth and yet your god is only interested in being worshipped and thanked everyday.

TRUE. However, much of Man's suffering is self-inflicted not God-inflicted.

Kids are dying ...

WHO is killing the kids? God? I doubt. Whatever is killing the kids is un der man's control and what isn't can be provided by divine providence.

You guys complicate issues with your bible verses...

It is TRUE religious people have complicated God through some ungodly teachings.Nevertheless, God remains TRUE, REAL, LOVING and PERSONAL.

Thsi faith is not even real, it's a quid pro quo arrangement where you theists are in it just so you can be rewarded later.....Why? If you are going to be a good person, do it because it's the right thing to do, not because you are hoping to get an invitation into heaven...

FAITH is REAL. NOTE:-
1. If you are a good person on earth, good will be returned to you on earth. Even if there is no heaven or God and you live your life on earth as a good person, you have NOTHING to LOSE.

2. But if you live your life on earth like there is no God, then die and discover that there is God, You will have EVERYTHING to LOSE.

THE CHOICE IS YOURS. I pray you'll make the right choice.

King G
#53 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:36:16 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/20/2012
Posts: 3,855
Location: Othumo
@sky 5, for prayer to sucede, there must be religion and beleif in it. But you are talking to non beleivers therefore there is no need to pary, it wont help!
Thieves
Sarrouniya
#54 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 6:51:41 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/31/2008
Posts: 163
Location: Nirvana
hamburglar wrote:
This God guy, why does he have to make everything so complicated? he is supposed to be omni everything, right? omniscient, omnipresent etc...That means that with the snap of a finger, he can end all the suffering and doubt and wars, and famine and diseases in an instant...

Why doesn't he just do that so that we can all just have a good life on this earth? What's his deal? Does he enjoy seeing kids starving death in Africa every 5 minutes when he has the capability of stopping the hurt? Does he enjoy seeing people suffer untold pain from diseases like cancer and AIDS and yet he can give us a cure in 5 seconds if he realy exists? What's the purpose of worhipping him and praying? Why do we have to pray if he can already just give us what we need?

Do we have to ask him for stuff? If he knows that somebody is broke and needs a meal, does he have to wait for that person to pray and beg for a meal? Why doesn't he just end the suffering? Why doesn't he just get rid of sin so that we can all live a perfect life on earth...There is too much suffering in this earth and yet your god is only interested in being worshipped and thanked everyday....Does he have low self esteem? What exactly are we thanking him for? The world is f***ed up, and yet we are busy getting on our knees to thank him? For what? Kids are dying but this god guy is only interested in sending people who did not kiss his ass to hell? And yet he clams to love all his "children"...

You guys complicate issues with your bible verses, some of you don't even know why you are religious, you just do it out of fear of going to this mythical hell and in the hopes that you will get a pass into heaven...Thsi faith is not even real, it's a quid pro quo arrangement where you theists are in it just so you can be rewarded later.....Why? If you are going to be a good person, do it because it's the right thing to do, not because you are hoping to get an invitation into heaven...

I have a clean conscience, I help my fellow man because it's what I would liek for him to do for me if i ever needed help, I am not going to do anything to please someone so that I can be rewarded later...There is no integrity in that, it's a sleazy way of living your life....This god guy must have some serious issues...If he can just sit back up there or wherever he is and watch infants and toddlers starve to death, then I don't want to be associated with him in any way, shape or form...That is not the kind of person I would want around me....

If I were thsi god guy, that supposedly has the power to solve everything, I would end the suffering on DAY 1. Everybody would be free of any suffering in this world and everybody would have a happy life...Why NOT? What is he waiting for? Does he enjoy when people kiss his ass everyday in the name of worship and prayers and all the other nonsense? Does he enjoy all that ass kissing that he fears that if he ends the suffering in the world, nobody would kiss his ass anymore? is he a glutton for ass-kissing? What the f*** man?

We can sit here and quote bible verses, shit, we've been doing it for years and years, but what good has that done other than theists trying to out-do each other on how much they know the bible? Theists will quote verses and debate about this and that, but the fact is, children are still dying everyday, so put doen that stupid bible that tells you to kill people who work on sabbath and to kill women who are not virgins on their wedding day, and start using your brains you dolts....There is like thousands denominations and religions on this earth, you people are too dumb to understand that you are Christian or Muslim because of where you were born....Your parents indictronized you, if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you wold have been Muslim....All children are born atheists,it's what their parents posions their mind with that they become....The primitive tribe (pariha) that lives in the amazon are atheists because they don't have any civilization and nobody has planted any religious BS in their heads....Will they going to hell because they did not worship your god? Get real..

This god of yours doesn't exist and if he does, then tell him that humanity needs him RIGHT NOW...we are tired of reading his silly book and trying to figure shit out...Eveidently, we can't solve our problems on earth, so if he can snap his fingers and help us end the madness and suffering on this earth, then he needs to do that or he is the biggest douchebag around....What a loving god? you have to be kidding me. At getting saved, saved from what???????

If you want me to believe in your god and that he answers prayers, I would like for all your theists today to pray for a cure for cancer..tell your god that people are suffering and he needs to stop being a dick and give us the cure....if he does that and we have a cure tomorrow,then am getting "saved" or whatever you guys call that nonsense....But if he doesn't, then maybe he just doesn't care too much about your prayers or he simply DOES NOT EXIST....

Now I know that I will surely be banned from this sitre so this might as well be my parting shot....It's been real wazua....Peace.


YOU MAKE PERFECT SENSE... But only to the objective mind.
|The Universe will correspond to the nature of your song ...
40by40 100by50
#55 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:16:12 PM
Rank: Hello

Joined: 9/1/2012
Posts: 4
tycho wrote:
Tokyo wrote:
One logical evidence that god exists.?


At least 'logical evidence' entails 'logical arguments.' And logical argument is about validity. And on what does validity stand?

If it stands on it's own, then it's the ultimate value . . . therefore 'God.'

But we can also have another logical argument:

Words are symbols for things that exist,
God is a word,
Therefore God exists.

There's even a third one! I am.

When I look at the issue of 'world view' I realize that all world views are valid. But validity alone isn't enough, it must be qualified with being. And being entails eternity, omniscience, Omnipotence all that is 'God.'

Man, always has an agenda! That is why he speaks. And if man speaks, then there is being. And being, is 'God.' (And being is not being also!)

I think there are five pieces of 'logical evidence' here.



I think there are 5 pieces of sheer and utter incomprehensibility here


Sarrouniya
#56 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 7:25:59 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/31/2008
Posts: 163
Location: Nirvana
Who created mosquitoes, cockroaches, ticks, fleas and such like parasites, and what intention did he have for their lives?
Its like these things are borne to be killed. Why? So is it fair or just to have them created in the first place? You see each time I pick up a can of doom I always question the god of mosquitoes n cockroaches.

@admin, topic should read atheists not aesthetics.
|The Universe will correspond to the nature of your song ...
Sarrouniya
#57 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 8:00:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 7/31/2008
Posts: 163
Location: Nirvana
If only religious people would admit one thing: They DO NOT know for certain. All they do is believe. They do not know that the bible/qur'an is not the work of some random writers who probably would be surprised to see their stories revered that much today. You do not know. Rather than present their beliefs as facts while quoting the same book they know nothing about.
@tycho,behemoth,na wengineo, the undisputable fact is you do not know. But you have been indoctrinated to believe. In God and the bible, and that is ALL u can do. There is no proof, no evidence, none at all,other than that which exists in your preconditioned mind. So quit trying to explain the unexplainable. Just believe until ur day comes ...
|The Universe will correspond to the nature of your song ...
tycho
#58 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:00:26 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Sarrouniya wrote:
If only religious people would admit one thing: They DO NOT know for certain. All they do is believe. They do not know that the bible/qur'an is not the work of some random writers who probably would be surprised to see their stories revered that much today. You do not know. Rather than present their beliefs as facts while quoting the same book they know nothing about.
@tycho,behemoth,na wengineo, the undisputable fact is you do not know. But you have been indoctrinated to believe. In God and the bible, and that is ALL u can do. There is no proof, no evidence, none at all,other than that which exists in your preconditioned mind. So quit trying to explain the unexplainable. Just believe until ur day comes ...


'You do not know', says the man from nirvana, but does he know? He knows that I don't know. So he knows.

But he is me.

Therefore I know.

But he doesn't know he is me.

Okay, all this time he's been saying that he's not me, and he wants me to prove that I am him.

But how can I prove when he has already chosen?

Can he say that he doesn't know anything?

No.

Can he speak for me without being me?

If he speaks for me without being me then he is not saying the truth.

But he is saying the truth, therefore he is me.

I do not know; because I know.

Do I exist? I am!
KenyanLyrics
#59 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:01:03 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
tycho wrote:
Looking at this thread leaves me with the impression that we do not appreciate the role mythology plays in human affairs. Nay, we do not seem to understand how we should use mythology.

It's like if its not a 'fact' then it's a 'Myth.'

Man it seems, has not yet become conscious of himself.

I actually happen to think that with time, modern society will go the way of the Greeks and Norwegians, who have long accepted their ancient teachings as mythology, but they still remain respectable fields of study. Nice middle ground, don't you think?
masukuma
#60 Posted : Wednesday, September 05, 2012 11:09:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
Sarrouniya wrote:
hamburglar wrote:
This God guy, why does he have to make everything so complicated? he is supposed to be omni everything, right? omniscient, omnipresent etc...That means that with the snap of a finger, he can end all the suffering and doubt and wars, and famine and diseases in an instant...

Why doesn't he just do that so that we can all just have a good life on this earth? What's his deal? Does he enjoy seeing kids starving death in Africa every 5 minutes when he has the capability of stopping the hurt? Does he enjoy seeing people suffer untold pain from diseases like cancer and AIDS and yet he can give us a cure in 5 seconds if he realy exists? What's the purpose of worhipping him and praying? Why do we have to pray if he can already just give us what we need?

Do we have to ask him for stuff? If he knows that somebody is broke and needs a meal, does he have to wait for that person to pray and beg for a meal? Why doesn't he just end the suffering? Why doesn't he just get rid of sin so that we can all live a perfect life on earth...There is too much suffering in this earth and yet your god is only interested in being worshipped and thanked everyday....Does he have low self esteem? What exactly are we thanking him for? The world is f***ed up, and yet we are busy getting on our knees to thank him? For what? Kids are dying but this god guy is only interested in sending people who did not kiss his ass to hell? And yet he clams to love all his "children"...

You guys complicate issues with your bible verses, some of you don't even know why you are religious, you just do it out of fear of going to this mythical hell and in the hopes that you will get a pass into heaven...Thsi faith is not even real, it's a quid pro quo arrangement where you theists are in it just so you can be rewarded later.....Why? If you are going to be a good person, do it because it's the right thing to do, not because you are hoping to get an invitation into heaven...

I have a clean conscience, I help my fellow man because it's what I would liek for him to do for me if i ever needed help, I am not going to do anything to please someone so that I can be rewarded later...There is no integrity in that, it's a sleazy way of living your life....This god guy must have some serious issues...If he can just sit back up there or wherever he is and watch infants and toddlers starve to death, then I don't want to be associated with him in any way, shape or form...That is not the kind of person I would want around me....

If I were thsi god guy, that supposedly has the power to solve everything, I would end the suffering on DAY 1. Everybody would be free of any suffering in this world and everybody would have a happy life...Why NOT? What is he waiting for? Does he enjoy when people kiss his ass everyday in the name of worship and prayers and all the other nonsense? Does he enjoy all that ass kissing that he fears that if he ends the suffering in the world, nobody would kiss his ass anymore? is he a glutton for ass-kissing? What the f*** man?

We can sit here and quote bible verses, shit, we've been doing it for years and years, but what good has that done other than theists trying to out-do each other on how much they know the bible? Theists will quote verses and debate about this and that, but the fact is, children are still dying everyday, so put doen that stupid bible that tells you to kill people who work on sabbath and to kill women who are not virgins on their wedding day, and start using your brains you dolts....There is like thousands denominations and religions on this earth, you people are too dumb to understand that you are Christian or Muslim because of where you were born....Your parents indictronized you, if you were born in Saudi Arabia, you wold have been Muslim....All children are born atheists,it's what their parents posions their mind with that they become....The primitive tribe (pariha) that lives in the amazon are atheists because they don't have any civilization and nobody has planted any religious BS in their heads....Will they going to hell because they did not worship your god? Get real..

This god of yours doesn't exist and if he does, then tell him that humanity needs him RIGHT NOW...we are tired of reading his silly book and trying to figure shit out...Eveidently, we can't solve our problems on earth, so if he can snap his fingers and help us end the madness and suffering on this earth, then he needs to do that or he is the biggest douchebag around....What a loving god? you have to be kidding me. At getting saved, saved from what???????

If you want me to believe in your god and that he answers prayers, I would like for all your theists today to pray for a cure for cancer..tell your god that people are suffering and he needs to stop being a dick and give us the cure....if he does that and we have a cure tomorrow,then am getting "saved" or whatever you guys call that nonsense....But if he doesn't, then maybe he just doesn't care too much about your prayers or he simply DOES NOT EXIST....

Now I know that I will surely be banned from this sitre so this might as well be my parting shot....It's been real wazua....Peace.


YOU MAKE PERFECT SENSE... But only to the objective mind.

God is good, God is love and God is all wise. however our yardstick of these adjectives may not match his! He does what he feels like doing - when he feels like doing it. Because that is who he is - he is not a marionette that is controlled by rituals and formulae, He does not exist to ensure that humans live comfy lives. Hey he may not speak for a couple of hundred of years... that's who he is.... Maybe Human suffering may not be his primary concern (for now). God is not Santa Claus i.e. He is not nice! he is good by his own definition not yours.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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