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Thread for aethists/agnostics.
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/20/2012 Posts: 3,855 Location: Othumo
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Mine is simple, how big nis this heaven of yours. Even now earth is feeling pressure of human numbers. My guess is that those who have died and gone to 'heaven' since whatever year are in billions, how now. Do you stop growing in heaven; you remain the age you died, what is the logic. What do guys do there morning to morning, at least in heal there is fire and gnashing of ......... Thieves
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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Now I know that all people, including Christians are being had and deceived.
Its in heaven that there is everlasting burning.
There are numerous passages clearly showing God is fire and if He lives forever, then THAT fire is forever.
Sample this; Psalms 50:3, and Hebrews 12:29.
Whoever told people to avoid the place of everlasting burning and that it is 'cruel'? Yes, right, the deceiver!
So the fire burns forever. I am yet to get a passage that says the sinner will live forever.
Some one who believes that can help me out here.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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the idea of an eternally burning hell defeats the whole purpose of hell by perpetuating rather than exterminating sin. And besides, such a concept seems incompatible with the kindness of God: How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell; that for the sins of a brief, earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live. There is not one Place of Scripture that occurs to me, where the word Death, as it was first threatned in the Law of Innocency, necessarily signifies a certain miserable Immortality of the Soul, either to Adam, the actual sinner, or to his posterity. God would not shut them up in hell to endure endless misery, neither will He take them to heaven; for to bring them into the company of the pure and holy would make them exceedingly miserable. But He will destroy them utterly and cause them to be as if they had not been; then His justice will be satisfied. He formed man out of the dust of the earth, and the disobedient and unholy will be consumed by fire and return to dust again. The cross of Calvary, while it declares the law immutable, proclaims to the universe that the wages of sin is death. In the Saviour's expiring cry, "It is finished," the death knell of Satan was rung. The great controversy which had been so long in progress was then decided, and the final eradication of evil was made certain. The Son of God passed through the portals of the tomb, that "through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14. Lucifer's desire for self-exaltation had led him to say: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: . . . I will be like the Most High." God declares: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth, . . . and never shalt thou be any more." Isaiah 14:13, 14; Ezekiel 28:18, 19. When "the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; . . . . all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1. possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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maka wrote:the idea of an eternally burning hell defeats the whole purpose of hell by perpetuating rather than exterminating sin. And besides, such a concept seems incompatible with the kindness of God:
How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell; that for the sins of a brief, earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live.
There is not one Place of Scripture that occurs to me, where the word Death, as it was first threatned in the Law of Innocency, necessarily signifies a certain miserable Immortality of the Soul, either to Adam, the actual sinner, or to his posterity.
God would not shut them up in hell to endure endless misery, neither will He take them to heaven; for to bring them into the company of the pure and holy would make them exceedingly miserable. But He will destroy them utterly and cause them to be as if they had not been; then His justice will be satisfied. He formed man out of the dust of the earth, and the disobedient and unholy will be consumed by fire and return to dust again.
The cross of Calvary, while it declares the law immutable, proclaims to the universe that the wages of sin is death. In the Saviour's expiring cry, "It is finished," the death knell of Satan was rung. The great controversy which had been so long in progress was then decided, and the final eradication of evil was made certain. The Son of God passed through the portals of the tomb, that "through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14. Lucifer's desire for self-exaltation had led him to say: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: . . . I will be like the Most High." God declares: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth, . . . and never shalt thou be any more." Isaiah 14:13, 14; Ezekiel 28:18, 19. When "the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; . . . . all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.
Yes. It is believed that Jesus paid the price. And then it is also asserted that the price is endless burning forever. Then is Jesus burning in hell forever? If he is not in hell now burning forever then it means he did not pay the price. It means we are all lost. But He paid....... Also the deceiver himself will be brought to ashes. Ashes is ashes. Ashes does not mean 'living' forever and ever in hell.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 4/22/2010 Posts: 11,522 Location: Nairobi
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YesuWangu wrote:maka wrote:the idea of an eternally burning hell defeats the whole purpose of hell by perpetuating rather than exterminating sin. And besides, such a concept seems incompatible with the kindness of God:
How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell; that for the sins of a brief, earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live.
There is not one Place of Scripture that occurs to me, where the word Death, as it was first threatned in the Law of Innocency, necessarily signifies a certain miserable Immortality of the Soul, either to Adam, the actual sinner, or to his posterity.
God would not shut them up in hell to endure endless misery, neither will He take them to heaven; for to bring them into the company of the pure and holy would make them exceedingly miserable. But He will destroy them utterly and cause them to be as if they had not been; then His justice will be satisfied. He formed man out of the dust of the earth, and the disobedient and unholy will be consumed by fire and return to dust again.
The cross of Calvary, while it declares the law immutable, proclaims to the universe that the wages of sin is death. In the Saviour's expiring cry, "It is finished," the death knell of Satan was rung. The great controversy which had been so long in progress was then decided, and the final eradication of evil was made certain. The Son of God passed through the portals of the tomb, that "through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil." Hebrews 2:14. Lucifer's desire for self-exaltation had led him to say: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: . . . I will be like the Most High." God declares: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth, . . . and never shalt thou be any more." Isaiah 14:13, 14; Ezekiel 28:18, 19. When "the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; . . . . all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.
Yes. It is believed that Jesus paid the price. And then it is also asserted that the price is endless burning forever. Then is Jesus burning in hell forever? If he is not in hell now burning forever then it means he did not pay the price. It means we are all lost. But He paid....... Also the deceiver himself will be brought to ashes. Ashes is ashes. Ashes does not mean 'living' forever and ever in hell. The Godhead,trinity one part of it kant be banished to hell... possunt quia posse videntur
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/4/2006 Posts: 13,823 Location: Nairobi
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YesuWangu wrote:Now I know that all people, including Christians are being had and deceived.
Its in heaven that there is everlasting burning.
There are numerous passages clearly showing God is fire and if He lives forever, then THAT fire is forever.
Sample this; Psalms 50:3, and Hebrews 12:29.
Whoever told people to avoid the place of everlasting burning and that it is 'cruel'? Yes, right, the deceiver!
So the fire burns forever. I am yet to get a passage that says the sinner will live forever.
Some one who believes that can help me out here.
the concept of destruction of the spirits of unrepentant sinners is implied in many scriptures being refereed to as the "second death" and "eternal torment" however one clear scripture that explains that they will be tormented for ever and ever is Revelation 20:10 All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 7/16/2011 Posts: 59
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King G
Heaven must be beyond the space/time constraints.
The bible talks about ransoming and salvation.These terms are associated with danger or peril.
We are separated from God and therefore we are in hell.Out of God's grace He has constituted a plan to save mankind from this mess.
This plan once executed can only be done ONCE.Those who choose to be saved/ransom are rescued from hell.Those who reject the work of salvation are thus caught in an everlasting corruption.
Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/17/2010 Posts: 572
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suppose human beings on earth could not communicate in any way as in they could not talk or convey what they had in mind to others, would we have God or religion for that matter? I tend to think that God is of human conception and when we take away the medium that keeps God alive (communication) then God ceases to exist 'One headache for famous medieval holy people was that someone might murder you to acquire your body parts for the relics trade'
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Rank: Elder Joined: 8/11/2010 Posts: 1,588
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masukuma wrote:YesuWangu wrote:Now I know that all people, including Christians are being had and deceived.
Its in heaven that there is everlasting burning.
There are numerous passages clearly showing God is fire and if He lives forever, then THAT fire is forever.
Sample this; Psalms 50:3, and Hebrews 12:29.
Whoever told people to avoid the place of everlasting burning and that it is 'cruel'? Yes, right, the deceiver!
So the fire burns forever. I am yet to get a passage that says the sinner will live forever.
Some one who believes that can help me out here.
the concept of destruction of the spirits of unrepentant sinners is implied in many scriptures being refereed to as the "second death" and "eternal torment" however one clear scripture that explains that they will be tormented for ever and ever is Revelation 20:10 Aha, masukuma, you the man. Anyway, that verse talks about the devil, the beast and the false prophet. If you read further down starting verse 12 you find the rest of the population and their fate. An interesting verse is 14 where death and hell are cast into a lake of fire which is specified as the second death. Care to explain this? If hell dies, does it continue living? Let me bring up Jude 1:7. Sodom and Gomorrah are are suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Where in the world is this eternal fire currently burning? This is further explained in Obadiah 1:15-16 that talks about the day of the Lord. They will be as if they had not been. There is nothing like sinners burning forever and ever. Dont swallow the lie 'you shall surely not die'.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 7/1/2011 Posts: 8,804 Location: Nairobi
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Elder wrote:Is there death after life? Here is the chain of being: Life - Death - Life - Death - Life . . . .
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