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KENOL KOBIL .... 2012
youcan'tstopusnow
#1721 Posted : Friday, August 24, 2012 11:51:04 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
mwekezaji, PUMA earlier this month said due diligence was still going on.
http://www.hope-mag.com/...news&ca=1&a=589
As for the results, maybe they are going for a double announcement. If that is the case, they have just over a month to complete the 'due diligence'
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
Sufficiently Philanga....thropic
#1722 Posted : Friday, August 24, 2012 11:52:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2010
Posts: 2,221
Location: Sundowner,Amboseli
Soo true @Hisah,wonder how far down the stock will have gone should kk decide to keep mum & only be heard on 30th Sept as they announce H1 results(they are allowed to delay disclosure until this day)..btw,im not saying they'll pull this stunt...#jus saying
@SufficientlyP
kaifastus
#1723 Posted : Friday, August 24, 2012 11:55:58 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 8/17/2011
Posts: 207
Location: humu humu
its going down alright...anxiety galore
VituVingiSana
#1724 Posted : Friday, August 24, 2012 1:22:31 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
Patience. Kwani, do you harvest the day you plant?
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
mwekez@ji
#1725 Posted : Friday, August 24, 2012 4:58:18 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
mwekezaji, PUMA earlier this month said due diligence was still going on.
http://www.hope-mag.com/...news&ca=1&a=589
As for the results, maybe they are going for a double announcement. If that is the case, they have just over a month to complete the 'due diligence'


Quote:
From that link posted on 6th August 2012
According to a statement from Trafigura’s communication team, whatever that is currently happening is part of the due process. “The due diligence phase is underway. Once this process is completed and final discussions concluded, we will be in a position to announce next steps,” said the statement.

Clearly, the next announcement will be BIG. Ditto, it may be a double announcement. smile
Jamani
#1726 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:40:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Quote....“We think there are high chances that Kenya will become a major oil producer, trading and exporting country over the next decade vastly diversifying its agricultural and service based economy,” said Standard Investment Bank.

International rating agency Moody’s early last month said that additional discoveries will increase chances that Kenya could become an oil exporter, which will improve the country’s economic outlook
... End quote.

With mining prospects set this high, I am thinking/asking why sell KK at a price less than KES 25?
guru267
#1727 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 8:04:50 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Jamani wrote:
With mining prospects set this high, I am thinking/asking why sell KK at a price less than KES 25?


I think KK has the lowest net profit margin on the NSE of about 1.5%

This means that it can so easily make a Huge loss if anything small went wrong their costs or revenues.. (check 2009)

Basically investors are less interested in companies with very low profit margins!

I think if the H1 results come in before the takeover announcement KK share price will be HAMMERED! Hence the reason for their delay.




Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
Aguytrying
#1728 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:05:57 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
everybody needs to chill. I used to be anxious like most of you but it doesn't help much.
Deal or no deal, I will be fine.

Imagine still owning KK shares with the expected commercial oil viability, Is that really a problem or a gift.

I'm very sure the reason for the delay is negotiation of a higher buy price. Coz It doesn't make sense to sell this company at the brink of major oil discoveries. Unless its some sort of share swap. or attaching a higher premium.
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
mwekez@ji
#1729 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:17:40 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
guru267 wrote:
Jamani wrote:
With mining prospects set this high, I am thinking/asking why sell KK at a price less than KES 25?


I think KK has the lowest net profit margin on the NSE of about 1.5%

This means that it can so easily make a Huge loss if anything small went wrong their costs or revenues.. (check 2009)

Basically investors are less interested in companies with very low profit margins!

I think if the H1 results come in before the takeover announcement KK share price will be HAMMERED! Hence the reason for their delay.






@guru, what do you see in 2009?

That asked, I affirm that midstream and downstream oil business is low margin. The gross profit margin is at a single digit and therefore operating margin and net profit margin follows. That is the reason KK pushes for high sales/volumes and this has worked for them.

We all know investors are interested in our midstream and downstream oil business as it is. That is the reason Puma are here!

The discovery of oil and gas in the region is making the equation better.
Jamani
#1730 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:51:53 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/12/2006
Posts: 1,554
Aguytrying wrote:

Deal or no deal, I will be fine.

Imagine still owning KK shares with the expected commercial oil viability, Is that really a problem or a gift.

I'm very sure the reason for the delay is negotiation of a higher buy price. Coz It doesn't make sense to sell this company at the brink of major oil discoveries. Unless its some sort of share swap. or attaching a higher premium.


Thats exactly my point....
mwekez@ji
#1731 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 12:09:39 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
@Guru, my view of 2009, it has some similarities with 2012. Talk of history somehow repeating itself.

In 2009, KK had a challenging H1 when it was hit with a loss for the 1st time in many years. In H2 2009, KK made a good run and was able to record Full Year Gross profit of KES 6B, Operating profit of KES 2.4B, PBT of KES 1.9B and PAT of KES 1.3B.

In H1 2012, the KK results will not be good. That we know and Puma knows. That does not change KK from being a great company going forward. That is why KK is being valued at KES 17 and Puma are expected to pay a good premium over that fair value
VituVingiSana
#1732 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 1:19:59 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
Jamani wrote:
With mining prospects set this high, I am thinking/asking why sell KK at a price less than KES 25?

I think KK has the lowest net profit margin on the NSE of about 1.5%

This means that it can so easily make a Huge loss if anything small went wrong their costs or revenues.. (check 2009)

Basically investors are less interested in companies with very low profit margins!

I think if the H1 results come in before the takeover announcement KK share price will be HAMMERED! Hence the reason for their delay.
Not quite.
1) KK has indicated the 'loss' for 1H 2012. It's in the annual report. In B&W. In the Chairman's statement. In the Comprehensive Income. In the Financial Statements under Derivatives. Did Puma know? Yes. The Puma announcement came AFTER the AGM.

2) The NPM in the oil industry are low. They have always been low. Why? Oil firms deal in a commodity that is (very) high volume. KK in particular deals in 'wholesale' trading which has low margins but HUGE volumes. This is a cash (or short-term) business (for the bulk of the sales) so very low level of write-offs. KK's losses in 1H 2012 were from forwards on USD for 4 months [as explained during the AGM].

KK (& other OMCs) constantly turnover (inventory turns/cycles) their inventory. The greater the cycles, the higher the profits without using additional financing/cash/funds. More firms need to do so. Lower margins, higher turnover of stocks = greater profits.

KK is a major importer whose crude/fuel is already pre-sold based on the MoE allocation. KK ships it in, gets paid then releases it. There are penalties for not buying your allocation from KK. A few small OMCs failing to buy from KK doesn't matter since KK can re-sell it to other OMCs, export to EAC or sell through its stations. Think how much (extra) volume Deal Poa pushes.

A firm that sells a low volume item e.g. turbines may sell 2 a year thus the NPM is 'higher' to account for no sales in a particular year, financing costs, storage costs, obsolescence, etc.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
earthvoice
#1733 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 3:48:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 257
VituVingiSana wrote:

1) KK has indicated the 'loss' for 1H 2012. It's in the annual report. In B&W. In the Chairman's statement. In the Comprehensive Income. In the Financial Statements under Derivatives. Did Puma know? Yes. The Puma announcement came AFTER the AGM.

Applause Applause Applause Applause
People seem to forget this fact!
"All intelligent investing is value investing -- acquiring more than you are paying for. You must value the business in order to value the stock." - Charlie Munger.
youcan'tstopusnow
#1734 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:51:11 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
The popular ‘Deal Poa’
promotion offering Kenyan motorists fuel savings of Kshs 3.00 per litre off the official
pump price has come to an end. Sunday, August 26th 2012 will be the last day of the promotion, paving way for the resumption of the ERC pricing structure
effective August 27th, 2012.
Regardless of this change, K- Card customers will continue
to enjoy the daily discount of Kshs 2.00 per litre for fuel purchases through K-Card.
http://www.kenolkobil.co.../content/article/58/323
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
youcan'tstopusnow
#1735 Posted : Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:53:53 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Kesho kutajaa!
GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
VituVingiSana
#1736 Posted : Sunday, August 26, 2012 12:58:15 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
The recent ERC price reduction is hitting OMCs. I was told that the incoming cargoes are more expensive based on increasing oil prices so margins are squeezed. It seems that prices will jump on 15 September so might as well fill up!
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Aguytrying
#1737 Posted : Sunday, August 26, 2012 8:47:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 5,040
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
The popular ‘Deal Poa’
promotion offering Kenyan motorists fuel savings of Kshs 3.00 per litre off the official
pump price has come to an end. Sunday, August 26th 2012 will be the last day of the promotion, paving way for the resumption of the ERC pricing structure
effective August 27th, 2012.
Regardless of this change, K- Card customers will continue
to enjoy the daily discount of Kshs 2.00 per litre for fuel purchases through K-Card.
http://www.kenolkobil.co.../content/article/58/323


i see the puppet strings of puma on KK recently, and this is another
The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself
mwekez@ji
#1738 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 9:01:37 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 5/31/2011
Posts: 5,121
Aguytrying wrote:
youcan'tstopusnow wrote:
The popular ‘Deal Poa’
promotion offering Kenyan motorists fuel savings of Kshs 3.00 per litre off the official
pump price has come to an end. Sunday, August 26th 2012 will be the last day of the promotion, paving way for the resumption of the ERC pricing structure
effective August 27th, 2012.
Regardless of this change, K- Card customers will continue
to enjoy the daily discount of Kshs 2.00 per litre for fuel purchases through K-Card.
http://www.kenolkobil.co.../content/article/58/323


i see the puppet strings of puma on KK recently, and this is another


True that. They want the business in a given shape and they will have that. I see them giving us a major announcement sooner rather than later.
chiaroscuro
#1739 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 9:39:52 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 2/2/2012
Posts: 1,134
Location: Nairobi
guru267 wrote:
Jamani wrote:
With mining prospects set this high, I am thinking/asking why sell KK at a price less than KES 25?


I think KK has the lowest net profit margin on the NSE of about 1.5%

This means that it can so easily make a Huge loss if anything small went wrong their costs or revenues.. (check 2009)

Basically investors are less interested in companies with very low profit margins!

I think if the H1 results come in before the takeover announcement KK share price will be HAMMERED! Hence the reason for their delay.






That's because a huge chunk of their sales revenue is the "pass-through" kind.

The price formula used by ERC accounts for all imaginable costs, including product transfer losses. Thus KK [or any petrol dealer] only needs to worry about the 6 bob gross margin allowed by law.

If your operating costs are higher than 6 bob per litre, think twice... That's the problem total is facing!
VituVingiSana
#1740 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 9:53:23 AM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,121
Location: Nairobi
@chiarascuro - ERC pricing does not take into account the full effect of financing. That has been remarked upon by both Total & KK. I spoke to a smaller importer who said when interest rates jumped from 14% to 28%, the ERC stayed 'blind' to the jump. Since most of the product is financed since even firms like KK have to borrow since it is billions per shipment.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
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