@hamburglar two things you must be careful of:

1. Don't allow yourself to be labelled. Now people have labelled you an 'atheist' which makes it very easy for them to judge you without getting to know you.

Being judged or labelled is the least of my worries...Theists do that all the time, theists harbor more hate than atheists and it's not even close...I have theists frenemies who literally hate me, actually abhor me, but that only proves how evil theism is, because these same people that hate me, I have nothing but love for them..I have no room for hate in my heart..If somebody wants to waste their energy judging, hating or labelling me, let them knock themselves out, that doesn't faze me one bit....I don't divagate, I don't hate, I embrace freedom of religion or lack thereof....Some religious fellow who lived in my State and who hated me with a passion moved to a different state and months later unfortunately lost his mum...The people who knew him in my state did nothing about it, so I made phone calls, held an impromptu harambee and raised some money for him to help send his mother home for burial because I know how expensive that whole process can be....Why did I do it? Because I embrace humanity and have no reason to hate like theists do....That same hate that theists carry towards atheist is the reason why muslims and Christians and all the other religions are killing each other everyday....So, if anybody wants to label me, let them call me what they may....It's really not going to cost me any sleep but they are the ones that have to deal with the hate in their hearts...I know I am resented and I will probably be hated here on wazua, but be that as it may, I consider everybody here a friend that I can learn something from regardless of our differences....That's the difference between theists and I, but once again, they are the children of god, am not.

2. As you state your arguments, don't be an asshole. I've found that many people who don't believe in God put forth their arguments in a very condescending manner, and you seem to be going down that path as well. Understand that nobody knows the truth beyond reasonable doubt. Whether creation or evolution, we're all dealing with theories, so tolerance of others' beliefs is necessary.

You need to know a few more facts:
1. Even in this wonderful wazua forum we have strong beleivers. They are in the forum to exchange ideas on becoming more successful in their area of business. Because you seem to be conversant with the scriptures the apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 3:10 wrote:

"For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

Throughout the scriptures God refers to the lazy/sluggards as fools and foolish. Theists don't just sit and wait for blessings to drop from up, we work and work hard mister.

2. Your reference to scripture is based on a deductive study instead of inductive study. In other words your mind is closed and you wouldn't want to see anything new or different from your perspective. Open up to the fact that even your perception on the worldview could be wrong.

@Harmbuglar, you have tried, but your half-answers to my case have done nothing to dispel it. I think you are being dishonest in claiming that there is no evidence for God, yet there is abundant evidence in philosophy, science and history. Get a book and start reading. You can start here:http://www.existence-of-god.com/first-cause-argument.html Though I doubt you will because hardcore atheists like you have a prejudgment that God doesn't exist, and whatever you tell them doesn't matter, so much for objectivity of science, which they so much "worship". I had hoped you will be different, but how wrong I was! For starters, if God doesn't exist, why is there something instead of nothing?
Stop running away from the argument and blabbering "There is no God" when you have no evidence against the existence of God. Like I said, you are not as old as the earth and you haven't searched every nook and crany of space to say that for sure there is no God. And that's why, if you are intellectually honest, you will admit that you need faith just as much as the religious person. For definition of faith, you can easily look up the word in the wiktionary or in your primary school dictionary. But let me do you the favour: Faith is "a feeling, conviction, or belief that something is true or real, without having evidence". So, going back to your premise,

"I don't need to prove that God doesn't exist, you can't prove something that is not there... The burden of proof always lies with whoever is making a positive existential claim - in this case, the theist"

it shows that you are not willing to consider any evidence for the existence of God, and you have already prejudged that God doesn't exist. That needs so much faith, mate! And the burden of proof lies with you. An objective mind is one which is wiling to look at the evidence and let it guide him wherever it will. And only then, will I have a meaningful debate with you.

Nabwire, my rants are against this make belief god that can't help his children when they need him the most. What's his deal? Why can't he just give us a cure for cancer or AIDS? What perverse
satisfaction does he derive from seeing kids starve to death and yet he is supposed to be omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent? Why can't he just end the suffering that his children are enduring? Why can't he just get rid of sin and make this world a better place? I am not sure what his priorities are...It seems like he is more concerned with keeping tabs and sending people that did not kiss his ass to hell. Looks like his main priority is for people to please him, for people to ask (pray, beg) for shit that he can just provide without having to be asked.


Cure for cancer and AIDS etc- You know what you need to do. He has given instructions in regard to healthy living. Follow them and you will have no need for a cure for you will never get cancer & AIDS. Even if you get sick, the elements in the periodic table from which cures can be made are found on this earth (see reply in paragraph about prayers). As for kids staving to death, well, there is always someone who could have prevented it but did not (again see reply in paragraph about prayers). Food does not get raptured up to heaven you know. You seem to be urging Him to take some drastic action to be a dictator.



Why do we have to ask him for shit and he can already see how people are suffering? It just doesn't make sense. All he cares about is who is worshipping him on Sunday and who is begging him for shit and then he sits on his ass and does nothing about it? C'mon now, if that god were me and I had all these powers that theists claim he has, I would make this world perfect on Day 1. There would be no diseases, no conflicts, no suffering just paradise and I would do all these without anybody having to ask for it....I would just do it, if I had the power to make this world paradise I would do it instead of playing with people's heads "working in mysterious ways", please, there is no time for playing mysterious games while people continue to suffer, what's the point of being mysterious and kids are starving to death every 5 minutes?

The role of human input into diseases, conflicts and suffering is very plain and open and undeniable, yet still denied. Humans make (or fail to make) all the decisions and implements relevant to start and spread diseases, conflicts, wars and suffering yet recognition goes to another. The humans will try harder until their efforts and contributions in these matters are finally recognized. In this paragraph, you still want Him to be a dictator and take action without 2nd opinion.


Or as theists say, god answers prayers, then why hasn't he answered the thousands of prayers for a cure for cancer yet? Or is he working in mysterious ways? I have lost a dear one to cancer, I saw her suffer through pain, and yet god was busy sending people to burn to death and didn't have time to save her? What pleasure does he get by sending people to burn for eternity? (I don't believe in hell, but just for the sake of argument)...What kind of evil person would put his "children" through such torture for ETERNITY?

He is more than willing to answer prayers. Maybe answers to some of those prayers depend on you and so and so to reach the person praying. You dont live in a vacuum, you know. What if you or someone else decided to do A instead of B, then because of the A you did, the next person did A1 and so on until the nth person in the queue did A23, then the person praying could have got his A24 answer. Sometimes or many times someone breaks the chain and the last person does not get his A24 and gets Z instead. What makes you think he has not answered the 'thousands of prayers' this way.


This god guy has some serious serious issues....And that's why to a logical person, this god does not exist, you Nabwire are just living in fear, you think if you dismiss thsi god and start thinking for yourself that something bad might happen to you as attested by your sentiment that the carpet can be pulled from underneath me for not worshipping god....I am not afraid of losing everything, it just means that I have to start over...Life goes on....But I refuse to live in fear or to kiss somebody's ass in the hopes that he doesn't pull the rug from underneath me....


Anybody can pull the rug from underneath you. Even me. For example what if I find you and stab you through the heart with a knife? Or I pre arrange things so that you loose your assets. God will have nothing to do with that, it will be me and my hands that did the acts and pulled the rug. (Again see reply in paragraph about human actions). In this paragraph, you accuse Him of dictatorship over something I just might as well have done.




Besides, even if this god existed and did pull the proverbial rug, what would that accomplish? Would that make him feel more of a man that he was able to settle scores because somebody had a different opinion of him? What would it accomplish other than just making one more person suffer? This god must be a very angry guy, always looking for vengeance, it's like a competition with him....That's a tell tale sign of low self esteem...If he had high self esteem, he would learn to appreaciate dissenting views and not be the dictator that he is with his "my way or the highway" philosophy....But once again, to each their own, a lack of god in my life does not make me cocky or invincible, infact, it makes me look at humanity with humility, and that's why I will always do the little that I can to help my neighbor because I am my brother's keeper.


Now you dont want Him to be a dictator. As far as I can tell, God has not killed anyone, yet. (see reply in paragraph about role of humans). Those not with us today are in 'sleep'. Some day, He will wake them up and they will live again. You will see them, even that dear one of yours.Then He will make some be as if they had never been. Think of this this way, you are a dissenting voice against Him yet you still live. There are billions of dissentors like you walking on this planet today and making decisions that affect the next person +vely or -vely. What a dictatorship you live in!




It's 2012, do you still believe that hogwash that you read in the bible about somebody turning water into wine? C'mon now, really? Nabwire, I am more astonished by you because I have read your posts on this site and you came across as a very intelligent guy, so it buffles me that you actually believe that a man parted the red sea..Surely dude, really?

Its 2012 already yet we have not found cure for the lousy common cold. Atheists who make medicines have let humanity down in this regard, more than the God they accuse. We dont have all the answers to everything and we, especially you, are not consistent in everything. But you are still thinking of these things. This shows you are still thinking about them. Please, whatever you do, be a good atheist and do not stop thinking about them. That is the only way you you will begin to figure them out.

Do not criticize theists for believing then you turn around and believe that God does not exist. Oh, and avoid averments, atheists like doing that.