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Ongata Rongai Si Kenya!
Rank: Elder Joined: 6/17/2008 Posts: 23,365 Location: Nairobi
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Unarmed women use their voices to fight stray lions http://kenyacentral.com/...o-fight-stray-lions.html..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,906
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I'll answer that question... nyangao wrote:in this case who is on the wrong, the animals or the human encroaching on their land? King'etich is very clear on the lions being a national treasure, but won't pay to secure them. I'm damn sure that if maasai's were rewarded (not merely compensated) every time they donated the lives of their herds for the upkeep of this national treasures Kenya would double their numbers in five years... But no no NO! Kenya spends more on the fence than those who are literally sacrificing for the upkeep of our natural demi-gods. And we find it easier to slaughter hundred cows for funerals than provide the same in recompense for the lions misdeeds.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/13/2009 Posts: 1,950 Location: in kenya
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I am in support of the Moran who killed the Lions...We are forgetting this are wild animals..yeah wild ...if they had come across a kid or a man they wuld have mauled without pity...KWS took more than 6hrs to respond....the maasai contribute their part in Tourism too...hell they are the picture of Kenya...Why shld their lives be threatened by a beast and not kill it. '......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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kollabo wrote:We better get used to it..Nairobi National Park will be no more in 3 years time. Take that to the bank. We have lost it because we have failed to manage it as a national resource. I agree. Man has destroyed what nature exists all around him. I'm sure the late Prof Wangari Mathai turned in her grave when those lions were killed. Such a shameful primitive act. Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/7/2010 Posts: 2,148 Location: elderville
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selah wrote:I am in support of the Moran who killed the Lions...We are forgetting this are wild animals..yeah wild ...if they had come across a kid or a man they wuld have mauled without pity...KWS took more than 6hrs to respond....the maasai contribute their part in Tourism too...hell they are the picture of Kenya...Why shld their lives be threatened by a beast and not kill it. Word. He who can express in words the ardour of his love, has but little love to express. - Petrach, Son. (That men by various ways arrive at the same end. - Montaigne, The Essays of.)
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/14/2009 Posts: 2,057
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nyangao wrote:vinii wrote:...KWS should just ensure that the National Park is securely fenced - if i had Kipgetich well, he said that some 6 kms of the fence is left open for animals to 'move in and out' of the park.. when you look at the first occupants of the land , it was the wild animals. man came and pushed them away for his personal gain, leaving the wild life with little land to hunt and graze. when the lions come home to graze on the goats since all the antelopes have disappeared we kill them! in this case who is on the wrong, the animals or the human encroaching on their land? @nyangao, i suspect even Nairobi CBD was at some point occupied by animals, but we 'encroached' and made better use of the land. Same thing applies to the National Park, if 10/20 years from now the land on which it sits can find better use, so be it. If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/15/2011 Posts: 4,518
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Quote:2 lions have attacked a village in Kitengela barely meters away from where 6 lions were killed yesterday by Morans. The lions killed 2 sheep leaving 4 others for dead. Morans and village elders have given the Kenya Wildlife Service hours to trace and contain the wild animals before they take the law into the own hands. Angry Moran: Wachukue simba yao au tuue simba.KWS wakichukua simba yao  Are the lions which escaped still roaming KITENGELA?? In Naivasha pythons are terrorising people! "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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Rank: User Joined: 1/24/2012 Posts: 1,675 Location: In Da Hood
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whats this an hearing the lions have revenge attacked ? lol.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 1/25/2012 Posts: 1,624 Location: Langley
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QW25091985 wrote:whats this an hearing the lions have revenge attacked ? lol. Just seen it. If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 9/15/2006 Posts: 3,906
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Quote:Nimepigia KWS, kuwambia leo wakuje wachukue simba yao. Nawataki kuchukua simba yao. Itakuwa hasara kubwa kwasababu hii ni mara ya tatu mbuzi yangu kuliwa na simba.
Sio wakora wamepiga simba, ni sisi watu wa Kitengelea. Na mbuzi ingine imekuliwa, na sisi bado iko hapa. Kama waziri anataka sisi, aje hapa. Kama serikali hapana angalia sisi, sisi na jiangalia wenyewe.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/5/2010 Posts: 2,061 Location: Nairobi
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Prosecuting those Morans will be a mistake; Taking hard-line positions just makes the other guy harden his stance as well. We are talking of possible loss of human life, and loss of livelihood. Next time a lion strays, people will not be bothered to call KWS, they will just kill it, bury the carcass somewhere and be done with. Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum. If someone threatened this Kipng'etich's livelihood, or indeed his very life, I would want to see how he reacts.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 10/25/2007 Posts: 1,574
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"This is the correct way to see wild animals. Let them be free!" Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 12/9/2009 Posts: 1,492 Location: Nairobi
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jguru wrote:"This is the correct way to see wild animals. Let them be free!" After seeing what the elephant did to that car i bet the lion on top is just salivating n hoping that the wiremesh can be faulty. No way i can board that car. Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/25/2009 Posts: 973
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dossy7 wrote:jguru wrote:"This is the correct way to see wild animals. Let them be free!" After seeing what the elephant did to that car i bet the lion on top is just salivating n hoping that the wiremesh can be faulty. No way i can board that car. Ditto. Canned humans
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Rank: Elder Joined: 10/14/2009 Posts: 2,057
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muganda wrote:Quote:Nimepigia KWS, kuwambia leo wakuje wachukue simba yao. Nawataki kuchukua simba yao. Itakuwa hasara kubwa kwasababu hii ni mara ya tatu mbuzi yangu kuliwa na simba.
Sio wakora wamepiga simba, ni sisi watu wa Kitengelea. Na mbuzi ingine imekuliwa, na sisi bado iko hapa. Kama waziri anataka sisi, aje hapa. Kama serikali hapana angalia sisi, sisi na jiangalia wenyewe. saw the mzee talking and was amazed at how he analysed the whole situation in a very sincere nd forthright manner.. he was even admiting culpabilty to the offence of 'destruction of government property'!!! the statement 'wachukue simba yao' clearly tells you what the general feeling of the morans is i.e they care less about the lions - the government should just lock them up somewhere!! Kipgetich ana kibarua hapo!! If you are an eagle don't hang around with chickens; chickens don't fly....
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Rank: Elder Joined: 11/26/2008 Posts: 2,097
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jguru wrote:"This is the correct way to see wild animals. Let them be free!"
But never poke them!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkeYiJ6P3sw"Never regret, if its good, its wonderful. If its bad, its experience."
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 3/26/2012 Posts: 1,182
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kollabo wrote:We better get used to it..Nairobi National Park will be no more in 3 years time. Take that to the bank. We have lost it because we have failed to manage it as a national resource. Really? You do know "in 3 years", you are talking of mid 2015.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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To the Rongai resident’s, pole sana. As civilians, we depend on the Government to handle infrastructure and the infrastructure can only be as good as the attention that the Gov give’s it. For now we can just try to place ourselves where it would be most convenient. It is unfortunate that the Gov is the way it is, but let’s hope that the devolution will bring significant changes. Even though Kenya’s economy seems to be on the top in the region, it would actually be way beyond what it is now, should the leaders have focused on performing their duties rather than seeking for an opportunity to gain for self, while in that position (And yes, there are good leaders among the wolves). The main things that would have propelled this country would be such as, but not limited to a country wide infrastructure (including water), education and energy. The rural folk would be able to make a living easier and in a diverse manner, not depending on traditional methods (primarily agriculture, meats and animal produce). Right now, they have to first battle the transportation problem before delivering the produce with minimum profits due to the expenses in transportation and production, and hence the rise of poverty in the backcountry, which drives rural to urban migration. With things such as drop irrigation, food produce would continue all year round, water will not be wasted, farmers will not have to depend on the seasons, and food prices would be relatively low. Education and energy have their roles. Through education, individuals will gain the essential skills to be able to produce and trade. Amongst other things, energy + education will allow none traditional trade to take place. How much of the world is currently making a living electronically or digitally? And how much opportunity is available? So much is being consumed and demanded digitally, and if we get the infrastructure and the skills, we too can be part of the producers. World standard multimedia production, desktop, mobile & web applications and such, you get the picture of possibilities. The problem is that, right now, education and infrastructure that would allow the none-traditional trade to be possible is primarily available only in urban areas. While there are some who are making use of the digital potential in urban area, the majority lack the skills, folks are still learning, given a few more years, with more disciplined approach at life (focus and not getting distracted), things will happen. There’s also got to be cooperation between the Gov and the telecommunication companies. The telcoms should not block the sun from the plants. The fiber’s landed not long ago, and even through there is enough bandwidth, the current prices still do not allow a full broadband experience in the average home (Being able to watch Full HD – 1080p buffer free at home). A lot of education can take place online, such as, doing pre-med at home then only going to campus after the completion of pre-med, other courses can be done wholly online, and many of them have video. There’s also a lot of open education, universities such as Stanford and MIT have their courses freely available, including lecture videos, covering probably all faculties. The Gov can give the telcoms subsidies, such as reduced licensing costs, reduced duties on equipment imports, energy and others, they will be helping removing obstacles rather letting the telecoms block the sun from the plants due to the expenses that can be subsidized. So, instead of the Gov reaping a little from the telcoms, why not support the telcoms, then reap a whole lot more from the population that made use of the subsidized telecommunication services? And let it be a win win win situation. Those who have not migrated to the urban areas do not know what is possible or the possibilities. Even if they have the cash to get electricity (solar, wind…) or internet via a wireless signal in their area, they would not bother invest in a computer / laptop and the internet, despite their current low cost - all due to ignorance. Nowadays the internet is a necessity, able to contribute to probably every sphere of life, primarily via information, such as innovative farming techniques. The internet is a portal or doorway to and from the world, but no one has taught them what is possible, and so the cycle continues after every generation, old knowledge being recycled, thus hindering productivity and development, many struggling with alcohol and other addiction, for there isn’t much else to do to stimulate their intellects, but there’s plenty of whatever to consume them in pleasure. Kenya has the land - of course, just like every other country, but Kenya has a good diversity of climates thus allowing almost any type plant foods to be grown (but this has not been fully explored. What is possible with the land is not known, or if it is know, it has not been utilized – we are importing the majority of the apples, grapes and probably all dates that are being consumed in KE, while we have the climates to support the different needs that the fruits require). Kenya has fertile land in diverse altitudes and temperatures, water sources (for energy, human consumption & agriculture), solar exposure or sun hours (not only for plants, but for energy), windy areas (energy), geothermal (energy) – (Kenya has the potential to depend wholly on renewable energy), coastline (primarily trade, imports and exports), the national parks, KE is well positioned in Africa (in terms of proportionate access to the Noth, the South, the Central and the rest of East Africa, for about half of the country is split by the equator, the equatorial region being the most coveted region on earth due to the temperate climate all year round – basically, Kenya has everything that a country needs to provide for itself and others, in all manner of trade including, but not limited to food, energy, manufacturing and the production of intangible digital produce. Kenya also has the human resource and a diversify of people groups, not only diversity in language, but diversity in cultures. Some nations, mostly the developed, have just about one people group(s) and about one language, but here, we have a diversity of languages and cultures (which we can appreciate instead of it being a cause of contention. Different cultures can be identified by different things that are peculiar to them in foods, music, musical instruments, clothing, accessories, lifestyle, architecture and others). There is also the beautiful language of Swahili, which if well spoken in its purity in vocabulary, pronunciation and rhythm - is an absolute pleasure to listen to, the French take pride of their language take good care of it, trying to spread it around the world, even a lot of nations in Africa speak French, but here urbanized Swahili is going rampant, polluting the pure Swahili. I believe that efforts to speak pure Swahili also refines the speaker for the speaker will be in an atmosphere of purity. Imagine how the general population and the youth would be if they all used the vocabulary found in the pure Swahili? Instead of the current coarse tongue. Efforts should continue to spread the pure Swahili around the region, and possibly beyond. The human resource just needs a few extra ingredients: infrastructure, education (skills) and energy, and it will not be the Kenya that’s been known. Ever wondered why expats have chosen Kenya for their homes / retirements etc…, there is a whole world out there, but they have seen the beauty and potential of this country. After leaving the country at an early age, living most of my life outside the country, growing up in a few countries due to parents work, about two years ago, after completing my tertiary education, I immediately headed back. Folks were telling me of the opportunities that I would forfeit if I headed back to KE, but they were talking to deaf ears. Yes, you can be happy out there, but the maximum potential for happiness and what can actually be achieved, to some individuals like myself, can only be attained in the land that you were born in, despite the challenges that you can face in your country, such the blackouts or traffic. My growth as a whole person had hit the ceiling while out there, there is an awful lot of freedom and space to do probably anything in your own nation (which I highly appreciate – such as being able to start any type or any number of business without much trouble, limitations, conditions, or permissions) than it is in a foreign land. You could have been born anywhere in the world, but the land that you were born in is your signature and home. I’m not discouraging folks from going abroad, by all means, if something is not here, go learn, then bring it back, this is home. When I arrived in KE, a lot of great things were happening, such as the new constitution, and the reforms that were happening, the ICT incubation labs revolution, the advancement in service in the telecoms, higher standards and / or new courses in certain tertiary educational institutions, infrastructural projects and others, prior to all these, the previous visits that I’d made to KE were being viewed from a perspective that has nothing to do with development, but everything about not being bored – was growing up. Even though Kenya got its independence in 63, it had plenty of time to get itself to the ideal, but we all know the history and where it is now, but all hope is not lost, if the next crop of leaders put self aside, put aside games - doing cute projects to show activity in that department, but instead focus on solving problems, understand the needs, understand their roles in office, perform their duties, uphold moral standards, collaborate with each other, be disciplined, invest in R&D, learn to forgive and let it belong to the past, be qualified, respect and treat even the lowest of servants with dignity (No strike or complaints from any public / Gov institutions should be heard. This is the same for civilians. Things like the Syokimau demolitions should not happen the way that id did.), if these and others are done, Kenya will be in a new sphere, the general tenor that the populations will emit will not be like that which is being currently emitted – stressed. Since the stress has been going on for years; it has been thought to be normal, that people just need to learn to live with it, but no, it is not normal, but there aren’t much options available, so people just endure and do that which they have power to do. Again, this cannot be over emphasized, infrastructure, energy & education, these will open many doors, folks will not have to depend on the same old, but wil have a wide range of options, even moving out of Nrb. All good work that has been done is acknowledge, by no means is it being said that the Gov has not done anything good. The reforms and development that’s been seen in the different areas are commended. This is just a voice from a civilian, and if it gets heard, surely something can be learnt that the Gov may be able to serve the nation better. Not forgetting the oil discoveries (what more would Kenya ask for?), if Gov manages it well, all the funds that will be required to carry out any project will be available. Country wide, world class medical services, land and air emergency response and Search & Rescue, well equipped educational institutions, nationwide multi-lane road networks … and the list goes on, all these are possible, it just requires the right actions to be taken, by the right leaders who know the countries potential and have the vision that will make the potential a reality, they will need to have the moral backbone, energy to move forward and to persevere despite the challenges and have discipline (They should not be able to be distracted from their purpose). Even in the presence of financial resources, economy still needs to be exercised. All unnecessary expenditures must be aborted, while accounting the rest. Transparency systems needs to be implemented, all loop holes need to be closed, a transaction should not occur, money gone, but it cannot be traced. These questions need to be able to be answered: Who performed the transaction? or who authorized it? or where did the money go to? If there is a burst water pipe, you do not start by moping the floor, you first fix the pipe, then mop the floor. If your bag of grain has a hole, you do not start by picking up the fallen grain, rather, you first fix the hole, then pick up the fallen grain. The lack of transparency is the burst pipe or the open hole in the bag of grain. Finally, the judiciary needs to have teeth to bite – irrespective of status. They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/16/2012 Posts: 808
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The wild cat simba lion story and the debate is intriguing. It is a privilege to have such stories transpire here, it is not everywhere that you will hear that warthogs are in the university, enjoying the greener grass, running ways from lions. Out there, folks have never seen a real warthog (maybe from things such as “The Lion King” or wildlife documentaries) or maybe they just know pigs and did not know that there is a warthog version. Zoo’s would have to make a plan to bring the animals in, then folks have to pay to see them, and here, we have the privilege of freely seeing them on the way to work or at school. If stories like these go out there, those who believe that Africa is a village and a jungle will believe so even more, even considering the “Massai” image that the world has. The Massai “Morans” aka “Warriors” kill 6 lions in 10 minutes to protect their livestock. If you like none fiction readings, please read the short version (a few minutes) of chilling and well written encounters of the man eaters of Tsavo. Two lions killed not less than 135 railways works, back in the late 1800’s and the early 1900’s as the workers were building the rail through Tsavo, which today is Tsavo National Park. They should have used “Morans” to do the Tsavo phase of the operation. Short Version: http://www.lionlamb.us/gandd.html
Full Book: http://robroy.dyndns.info/tsavo/main.html
So, there is a traffic jam, then Forester proposes “If you were using a PSV, you'd have simply walked but again i've heard some big cats have been spotted a couple of times along the route kwanza saa za jioni Pray”The first time that I read Forester’s post I thought that “big cats” were robbers “kwanza saa za jioni Pray”. I had not heard the news about the literal cats escaping the park, it was only as the posts unfolded that it dawned on me that we are dealing with lions not robbers. nostoppingthis says: Pray those big cats ni shida za kujiletea!!! The populace has created a hole on the KWS fence to go and fetch firewood....they didn't think that the fence was also to keep the wild cats inside....now the cats roam hapo Multimedia University...Then “Operation Linda Ngombe” happens. Let’s analyze the facts revealed in the article. http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/aqf245z/-/index.html
The state highly values the lions for the economic gains.“The killing is a big loss given that lions enjoy an iconic status as one of the “Big Five” in the wild and draw many tourists to Kenya.”Dr Wekesa asked people living near parks to alert KWS on stray animals instead of killing them.If the big cat killings continue, there is a threat of losing all of them in the country in twenty years.Mr Udoto said the country had about 2,000 lions and was losing 100 lions a year, meaning the big cats could vanish from the wild in two decades. Hence it is considered a criminal offence to kill lions.Forestry and Wildlife minister Noah Wekesa condemned the killings and warned the culprits that they would face the law. “This is criminal, we are looking for them. I am told they have fled to Tanzania but we will arrest and take them to court,” he warnedOn the other hand… The livestock are a source of livelihood for the villagers.“We killed them in less than 10 minutes because KWS were slow to act. Why do they (lions) kill our animals and they are our only source of livelihood?” asked a resident who refused to give his name for fear of reprisals.The villagers made efforts to save both the livestock and the lions by communicating the happenings. “We have reported several cases about the livestock that are being killed by the beasts but nothing much has been done,” said the association’s chairman, Mr James ole Turere.But there was little or no action takenBut the Kitengela Elparago Land Owners Association said KWS was not working with the community to protect their livestock.The villages could not tolerate the loses anymore, considering the fact that livestock is their livelihood.He said two lions had on the same night killed a cow at Empakasi, while a cow, 15 sheep and 16 goats were killed on Sunday in the same area. Mr Turere said they had lost more than 80 livestock in three weeks.That night..The villagers are said to have demanded that the lions be sedated and taken away and the family promptly compensated for the loss. But the morans grew restless waiting for KWS veterinary officers with every passing second, and turned on the animals in what they said was “Operation Linda Ng’ombe”. There is a Gov program that allows compensation for the loss of humans or livestock“Today, the law only compensates for loss of life and injuries but not loss of livestock or crops. The new Bill covers those as well,” he said.Currently, KWS pays Sh2,500 for a goat and Sh10,000 for a cow killed by a big cat. The farmers want the amount raised to Sh15,000 and Sh50,000 respectively.The current state of the villagers is thatThe morans vowed to kill more lions until the government fenced off the park and compensated them for losses running into millions of shillings.Conclusions The Gov has it’s reasonable reasons to justify their value for the big cats, while the villagers have their reasonable reasons to justify the value of their livestock and of course, their lives. Where do the two reconcile with each other? The Gov says do not kill the lions, and offer’s compensation for any loss caused by the cats. But we find that they cats got killed. Did the villagers have good ground to justify the killings despite the compensations program? - The villagers warned the Gov of the happenings There was little or no action from the Gov to fence and to compensate. - After a season of serious massacre by the lions (total of more than 80 in three weeks), the villagers had enough, and went to do the “job” themselves. But even before the killings, the villagers gave KWS an opportunity to come and sedate the cats, but KWS delayed, the villagers grew restless, and they killed the lions, two escaping - After all, the Gov was not doing anything about the fence, nor compensating, while the lions were feasting on the livestock, and who knows when the lions could turn to humans when no livestock is available? For if they have the capacity to take down livestock, would hunger prevent the lions from taking down humans? - The villagers vowed to continue the killings until the fence has been fixed and have their loss compensated. Considering what has been highlighted, I believe that the villagers had sufficient ground to kill the lions, for ultimately, human life is more valuable than the extinction of a species or the money that the species could earn a country, but in this case, it was not an extinction of a species, but from a park, which they can always bring more from other parks. The question that remains to be answered is whether or not the villagers should be compensated – after they have killed the lions, which the Gov values. Does the compensation depend on civilians keeping their end of the bargain? Dr Wekesa asked people living near parks to alert KWS on stray animals instead of killing them.Hence killing being a criminal offence? “This is criminal, we are looking for them”The compensation bill will need to state on whether the compensation is based solely on the fact that livestock has been lost due to the lions or whether it depends on x factors, such as if “crime” has been committed, or if the “crime” can be justified and so on... From the villagers side, they had their reasonable reasons to commit the “crime”, if you look at it from their perspective. Considering what had transpired so far, does it turn out that actually the government did not keep their end of the bargain? Hence the villagers deserving their compensation, of which they have not gotten any, while losing livestock? And should they be seen or considered as “criminals” or should the Gov understand the motives behind the villager’s actions, which were prompted by the Governments failures to act? They tried to bury us, they didn't know we were seeds.
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Rank: New-farer Joined: 6/7/2010 Posts: 52 Location: mumu humu
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This thread is a humorous, priceless gem; from big cats en route work/home, to four-hour sit-ins,to dancing cow gifs, to Wu Yi baby wishes. . . you people have more time than you know to do with ! And humour.
Wengine wenu location ni Ngamia 1 !!
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