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a crime to hike house rents!!!??.....Githae the pig.
Kaigangio
#1 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 10:30:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
i really don't quite understand what this fellow pig minister githae had smoked when he declared that it will an offence to raise the house rents....just because he will make the landlords pay taxes....bloody bure kabisa!!!! see the link:

http://www.nation.co.ke/.../-/s7tg0fz/-/index.html

seems the finance pig has not been operating in a kenyan pigsty where any increase or introduction of new taxes is passed on to the consumer in form of increased costs....

@ pig githae...my houses are my houses and not yours for you to dictate terms to me...fisi wewe!!! since you and your other mpigs did not want your salaries to be reduced or taxed why should you reduce my dispossable rent income through taxation???

i dare you to come to any of my houses and rent one...i swear i will slap you with a rent increase notice and you will do absolutely nothing...kubaf!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
essyk
#2 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 10:36:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
now how do expect me a tenant to react to your post? stress.
Tenants on one side and owners on the other.
We are all lamenting.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Kaigangio
#3 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 10:51:37 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
essyk wrote:
now how do expect me a tenant to react to your post? stress.
Tenants on one side and owners on the other.
We are all lamenting.


you see essyk i collect 150k monthly rent...
pay 120k monthly for morgage...
the remaining 30k is for my family needs and school fees.,,

if i start paying 30% tax the situation changes catastrophically...because...my monthly obligation will now rise to 120k + 45k (tax)+ 30k (family expenses) = 195k.
...net income = 150k - 195k = -45k!!!very dangerous indeed...

seems you tenants would have to organise monthly harambees to feed my family...as a result of the pigs action...
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
'user'
#4 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 10:57:27 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
tax on rental income has always been there.check your old income tax return and slap yourself for me if you have been calling other people tax evaders
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
Kaigangio
#5 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 11:01:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
'user' wrote:
tax on rental income has always been there.check your old income tax return and slap yourself for me if you have been calling other people tax evaders

hi user...i know it was there but had not been enforced or mandatory...
but as my computation shows i will be a rich landlord but a beggar if i dont raise the rents...githae hataniletea!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
essyk
#6 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2012 11:26:47 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
Kaigangio wrote:
essyk wrote:
now how do expect me a tenant to react to your post? stress.
Tenants on one side and owners on the other.
We are all lamenting.


you see essyk i collect 150k monthly rent...
pay 120k monthly for morgage...
the remaining 30k is for my family needs and school fees.,,

if i start paying 30% tax the situation changes catastrophically...because...my monthly obligation will now rise to 120k + 45k (tax)+ 30k (family expenses) = 195k.
...net income = 150k - 195k = -45k!!!very dangerous indeed...

seems you tenants would have to organise monthly harambees to feed my family...as a result of the pigs action...


Yes we empathise with you but we the tenants need somebody to listen to our cries as well.
An increase in rent means me digging deeper into my pockets yet salary iko vile vile. And yes we know that you guys have a million loans to repay.
That is the cost of investing in real estate.

ok now please tell me,how it works
Say you have 3 units earning you the 150k.
2 units @ 60k
1 unit @ 30k

how do you spread your 45k increase across the 3 tenants?

My landlady has a couple of houses and some cost more of course.I wonder how the increase shall be effected if she decides to hike.
I hv started selling some mandazis just incase.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
Manyala
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:17:35 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/8/2011
Posts: 482
Location: Nairobi
'user' wrote:
tax on rental income has always been there.check your old income tax return and slap yourself for me if you have been calling other people tax evaders


@user,
True, but because it was not being 'applied', landlords 'passed on' the benefit to the tenants. Upon application, the benefit 'ceases' and is 'passed on' to the tenant. Tis unfortunate for the tenants.

Secondly, the same people who are not paying taxes are the ones, pushing for additional taxes on the overtaxed.

Thirdly, even when you pay the taxes, they are misused, for their selfish purposes. An MP earns K.shs.20,000.00 a week as sitting allowance for attending Parliamentary Sessions. K.shs.20,000.00 per week *52 weeks, equals K.shs.1,040,000.00 p.a. * 222 MPs, totals K.shs.231 million!This excludes other sitting allowances for the many other Committees they sit in;some of which they make technical appearances in more than one a day. Thought we elect these people to go to parliament to enact laws? Which employer give you an allowance, on top of the salary,for you to sit in your office and work?
murchr
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:17:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Kaigangio wrote:
essyk wrote:
now how do expect me a tenant to react to your post? stress.
Tenants on one side and owners on the other.
We are all lamenting.


you see essyk i collect 150k monthly rent...
pay 120k monthly for morgage...
the remaining 30k is for my family needs and school fees.,,

if i start paying 30% tax the situation changes catastrophically...because...my monthly obligation will now rise to 120k + 45k (tax)+ 30k (family expenses) = 195k.
...net income = 150k - 195k = -45k!!!very dangerous indeed...

seems you tenants would have to organise monthly harambees to feed my family...as a result of the pigs action...


I thot u'd pay tax on the 30K? And shame on you for not paying taxes yet expecting services from the govt.....Bure kabisa
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
'user'
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:15:19 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
Manyala wrote:
'user' wrote:
tax on rental income has always been there.check your old income tax return and slap yourself for me if you have been calling other people tax evaders


@user,
True, but because it was not being 'applied', landlords 'passed on' the benefit to the tenants. Upon application, the benefit 'ceases' and is 'passed on' to the tenant. Tis unfortunate for the tenants.

Secondly, the same people who are not paying taxes are the ones, pushing for additional taxes on the overtaxed.

Thirdly, even when you pay the taxes, they are misused, for their selfish purposes. An MP earns K.shs.20,000.00 a week as sitting allowance for attending Parliamentary Sessions. K.shs.20,000.00 per week *52 weeks, equals K.shs.1,040,000.00 p.a. * 222 MPs, totals K.shs.231 million!This excludes other sitting allowances for the many other Committees they sit in;some of which they make technical appearances in more than one a day. Thought we elect these people to go to parliament to enact laws? Which employer give you an allowance, on top of the salary,for you to sit in your office and work?

before you point a speck in your neighbors eye remove the log in yours.
pay taxes and elect leaders who can take care of them in 2013.

you can always claim allowable expenses like interest paid land rates caretaker salary etc to mitigate the tax paid.

lipeni kodi
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
Njung'e
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:06:14 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/7/2007
Posts: 11,935
Location: Nairobi
Let's get it right.....It won't work for landlords to pass any expenses to the tenants since the tax increase involved will be proportional....Simply put,if Essyk is currently paying Kaigangio 30K for her crib,tax would amount to 10k,thus KaigZ keeps 20K (70%).......If Kaigz now increases the rent to 45K,tax involved is 15K and Kaigz keeps 30K (Which is still 70%).It's a no win situation,for the more they increase the rent,so by a similar proportion do they increase Githae's kitty.....and why shouldn't they pay?.They are Kenyans and like my granny would say,"Gutiri wa nda na wamugongo:.....WaripeApplause smile !
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
dossy7
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:24:58 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 1,491
Location: Nairobi
This law if not implemented wisely.The tenant is the one who will feel the pinch.
Kenya ni yetu sisi sote
nakujua
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:33:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/17/2009
Posts: 3,583
Location: Kenya
did they have to shout that loud that they were going to enforce this rental tax, they should have done the mapping and started enforcing without making too much noise, now they have given landlords an excuse to raise rent - am sure even the ones who were paying the tax before will have an excuse to increase rent.
FancyFace
#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 8:36:53 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 7/31/2009
Posts: 743
is there a tenant's association or something of the sort that can represent us tenants, I believe we have numbers to moderate this looming rent increase fiasco about to start

Problems can get out of proportion, and not only in the wee small hours. Don't let the problems eclipse the Master. Let the Master eclipse the problems.
Kaigangio
#14 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:33:17 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
essyk wrote:
Kaigangio wrote:
essyk wrote:
now how do expect me a tenant to react to your post? stress.
Tenants on one side and owners on the other.
We are all lamenting.


you see essyk i collect 150k monthly rent...
pay 120k monthly for morgage...
the remaining 30k is for my family needs and school fees.,,

if i start paying 30% tax the situation changes catastrophically...because...my monthly obligation will now rise to 120k + 45k (tax)+ 30k (family expenses) = 195k.
...net income = 150k - 195k = -45k!!!very dangerous indeed...

seems you tenants would have to organise monthly harambees to feed my family...as a result of the pigs action...


Yes we empathise with you but we the tenants need somebody to listen to our cries as well.
An increase in rent means me digging deeper into my pockets yet salary iko vile vile. And yes we know that you guys have a million loans to repay.
That is the cost of investing in real estate.

ok now please tell me,how it works
Say you have 3 units earning you the 150k.
2 units @ 60k
1 unit @ 30k

how do you spread your 45k increase across the 3 tenants?

My landlady has a couple of houses and some cost more of course.I wonder how the increase shall be effected if she decides to hike.
I hv started selling some mandazis just incase.



i borrowed money to buy a plot and i paid the government the stamp duty (form of tax) and repaid the loan in 5 painful years...you tenant were enjoying your full salary...

i borrowed even more to carry out the construction of the rentals, paid the taxes (VAT, cess and others on materials and consultancy services)and i am repaying the loan (for the next 20 years)...you tenant are still enjoying your full salary..

now if i start paying tax, i will repay my loan in a period of 30 years (i doubt i will still be alive), i will be forced to dig into my pockets to repay the loan (bad business) for 30 years while you tenant still enjoy your salary!!!

pig githae can go to roast in hell...better expand your mandazi business...i am on my way with the rental increase notice on my hand...hakuna huruma!! mtaniongezea pesa!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
Kaigangio
#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:43:49 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
Njung'e wrote:
Let's get it right.....It won't work for landlords to pass any expenses to the tenants since the tax increase involved will be proportional....Simply put,if Essyk is currently paying Kaigangio 30K for her crib,tax would amount to 10k,thus KaigZ keeps 20K (70%).......If Kaigz now increases the rent to 45K,tax involved is 15K and Kaigz keeps 30K (Which is still 70%).It's a no win situation,for the more they increase the rent,so by a similar proportion do they increase Githae's kitty.....and why shouldn't they pay?.They are Kenyans and like my granny would say,"Gutiri wa nda na wamugongo:.....WaripeApplause smile !


you see guka i am a very considerate landlord...i will distribute the tax amongst the tenants...rentals is a business just like any other and i need profit too...

so if the convernment taxes me, i pass this on to the tenants like other cases of tax increments...

i bet your granny also told you that "Gutiri hiti na wamutiri"...the houses are mine na mtaniongeza pesa, la sivio mhame!!!
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
alma
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:47:06 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Kaigangio....You chose to do those things so I don't see why anyone should feel sorry for you.

What you are refusing to accept and your landlord brethren is that you are a tax evader.

You were supposed to pay taxes...You never have. My advice to you is to swallow your pride and pay the tax. Otherwise you are on the way to being a criminal.

To the tenants out there please don't fret.

Landlords can't increase rents willy nilly. There must be a lease somewhere. Hata kama ni ya mabati. The landlord just can't come in the morning and tell you I'm increasing rent.

If he does, that's very good. This is what you do.

If he increases the rent and you know its coz of the taxes. Get a lawyer and fight it in court. As the case is being determined a good lawyer can even get the rentals stopped. You may not even need a lawyer for this. Ask the court clerks, they will help you.

You have a case if you show that the landlord is maliciously trying to use to pay his taxes.

I know of cases that have dragged in those courts for months with the landlord not getting a single penny of rent. Just find out your rights and no landlord will dare.

As the case in going please inform the KRA of someone who's not been paying their taxes for a while. They'd be happy to accomodate you.

It is a foolish landlord who thinks that the way to beat tax is to increase income. Very foolish indeed.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
bkismat
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:52:33 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 2,375
KRA has been lax in collecting this tax. It has always been there but they have not enforced it. Check on Part N of the form below.
http://www.revenue.go.ke/incometax/pdf/IT12008.pdf
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt...
-Mark Twain
Mtu Biz
#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:59:36 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/16/2007
Posts: 1,320
Kaigangio wrote:


i borrowed money to buy a plot and i paid the government the stamp duty (form of tax) and repaid the loan in 5 painful years...you tenant were enjoying your full salary...

i borrowed even more to carry out the construction of the rentals, paid the taxes (VAT, cess and others on materials and consultancy services)and i am repaying the loan (for the next 20 years)...you tenant are still enjoying your full salary..

now if i start paying tax, i will repay my loan in a period of 30 years (i doubt i will still be alive), i will be forced to dig into my pockets to repay the loan (bad business) for 30 years while you tenant still enjoy your salary!!!

pig githae can go to roast in hell...better expand your mandazi business...i am on my way with the rental increase notice on my hand...hakuna huruma!! mtaniongezea pesa!!!


Fortunately not all landlords are in your debt crisis.

As long as there is a free market economy, there will always be options. Mr Market will have the final say.




Sola Scriptura


Kaigangio
#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:01:38 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/27/2007
Posts: 2,768
alma wrote:
Kaigangio....You chose to do those things so I don't see why anyone should feel sorry for you.

What you are refusing to accept and your landlord brethren is that you are a tax evader.

You were supposed to pay taxes...You never have. My advice to you is to swallow your pride and pay the tax. Otherwise you are on the way to being a criminal.

To the tenants out there please don't fret.

Landlords can't increase rents willy nilly. There must be a lease somewhere. Hata kama ni ya mabati. The landlord just can't come in the morning and tell you I'm increasing rent.

If he does, that's very good. This is what you do.

If he increases the rent and you know its coz of the taxes. Get a lawyer and fight it in court. As the case is being determined a good lawyer can even get the rentals stopped. You may not even need a lawyer for this. Ask the court clerks, they will help you.

You have a case if you show that the landlord is maliciously trying to use to pay his taxes.

I know of cases that have dragged in those courts for months with the landlord not getting a single penny of rent. Just find out your rights and no landlord will dare.

As the case in going please inform the KRA of someone who's not been paying their taxes for a while. They'd be happy to accomodate you.

It is a foolish landlord who thinks that the way to beat tax is to increase income. Very foolish indeed.


@ alma...your con-vernment has been doing you in all the time through the punitive tax regimes...when VAT was intoduced this was passed on to the consumer...mli do?? other taxes have been reviewed upwardly and still all this consumer carries.

paying rental taxes is not the issue here...the issue is, like all other cases, why doesn't the pig want me to increase my cost of services in my rentals...

don't worry friend, whether you like it or not we will increase the rents and there is nothing either you or your convernment will do...don't forget when ceasar takes what is his, he does not care about the rest.
...besides, the presence of a safe alone does not signify that there is money inside...
alma
#20 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:15:07 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
@kaigangio I do feel for you but I guess we are having a failure to communicate.

VAT is a tax that is SUPPOSED to be passed on to the consumer. If you don't buy goods or services, then you won't pay that tax.

Rental income is not new. It has been in Kenya since independence. So there has been no tax increase.

It's just that you have not been paying it, hence evading taxes, hence a criminal if proven in a court of law.

Kaigangio its ok for you to increase your rents. But I would hazard to guess that these aren't the days of harassing tenants with auctioneers.

So therein lies the warning from Githae. They haven't completed gathering info on who should pay income tax. But I'm guessing if you increase your rents now, your tenants will complain and KRA will surely know.

Lipa ushuru jameni. If you increase rents some guys will stay other may leave. Lakini ushuru ripa!
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
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