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Tragedy of Flight KQ507
YesuWangu
#11 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 10:39:15 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
McReggae wrote:
selah wrote:
If you read the book outliers there is a story about a korean and Columbian air crashes they are more or less similar to this KQ scenario.

The writer asserts that for a typical air crash the pilot, his co-pilot and the flight engineer makes at least 7 errors before crashing and in most cases The airline itself is to blame for overlooking glaring warnings over time.Reading the article above it just confirms Outliers assertion


...and if you talk with those in the aviation industry, you will realize that the aircraft manufacturers (boeing and airbuses of this world) will do anything possible (and they have the muscle) not to have any blame of the aircraft in the final report, the captain/FO in most cases are always already dead.....no harm in blaming them for everything!!!!


Yes. Good captains are dead captains!
bwenyenye
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:14:56 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 5/24/2007
Posts: 1,805
McReggae wrote:
That story is as one sided as they can ever come!!!!

True my brother.... Airbus and Boeing will do all it takes to cover their A**es any day especially if the Pilot is gone. There must have been a problem with the plane. MUST have been. As they say of Aircraft accidents , there is never ONE single cause for a plane to crush but a series of errors over time...If you understood the myriad of checks and balances that plane had, and given that it was hardly 6 months old, my take is that there was a problem with the plane itself.
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TAZ
#13 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 12:30:37 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/14/2007
Posts: 4,152
flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR)...These are the two devices that can explain what really happened before the crash, i don't know whether the final report is usually made public but someone surely knows what happened.
Ash Ock
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:11:19 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/27/2010
Posts: 495
Location: Nairobi
Unfortunately, this crash somehow mirrored the Adbijan crash of 2000.

In the first case, according to all the data received from the FDR and CVR, an erroneous stall warning just on lift-off led to the crash. By itself, the warning should not have caused the flight to crash. What caused the flight to crash was that none of the two pilots (the co-pilot was the one flying) were looking at their instruments (specifically, the altimeter). If one reads the extract from the CVR, you can quite clearly hear in the background the radio altimeter counting down, a fact the captain realized at the last minute. This accident was classified as a “Controlled Flight into Terrain”.

In KQ507, the plane’s autopilot was not switched on, even though the captain gave the order. The co-pilot did not switch it on and the captain assumed it was on. He then let go of the controls, the plane started banking to the right (natural tendency), and when the bank-angle warning came on, reacted in panic. The rest, as they say, is history.

The racist comments should be disregarded. When the Tenerife collision between a KLM Boeing 747 and PAN AM Boeing 747 (both crews 100% muzungu) took place in 1977, the accident which claimed over 580 people was caused by the KLM captain’s decision to take off with any authorization from the tower, leading to his plane hitting the PAN AM flight which was still on the foggy runway. KLM’s first action was to run and get their most senior decorated Boeing 747 training captain, who had been heavily used in promotions etc to make a statement.

He was the captain of the ill-fated flight.
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McReggae
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:34:32 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
TAZ wrote:
flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR)...These are the two devices that can explain what really happened before the crash, i don't know whether the final report is usually made public but someone surely knows what happened.


....and these I remember were flown to Canada (friendly state to boeing) for investigations immediately they were retreaved.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Wakandi
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:52:55 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/5/2007
Posts: 332
IMHO, the kind of pilots(may be not the majority) we have are the problem. Their arrogance is imeasurable, to hear pilots referring to passengers as Fu**ers and so many other derogatory terms, while drinking themselves stupid in a bar, is so sad. These are young men who are in the aviation industry just because their folks are rich and can pay for the training. It pays to be humble.
Ric dees
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:09:42 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/6/2008
Posts: 632

..Sad state of events if the report is anything to go by, however i will not put blinders to ignore the obvious the blame lies in KQ not boeing in my opinion. I will not draw views from people in the industry, there is tendancy to same views.

However i got a view from a consultant in boeing a Kenyan mwindi and he told me Boeing for the longest time have been fed up with KQ when it comes to dealing with simple procedures regarding fixing problems etc..KQ simply tend to ignore, while this may be the small faults here and there however the fact cannot be lost KQ is known to cut corners.

I will not go into specifics but clearly there seem to be un underlying problem here,i know it is a cut throat business but the views expressed would defenitely send chill down any frequent traveller.


The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.
McReggae
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:31:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 23,365
Location: Nairobi
@Ric dees,
I wish you could get to specifics as your claims above for me are very far fetched, Boeing, Rolls Royce and GE all have representatives sitting at KQ offices and thwarting any issues that arise.

FYI: In aviation there are clear means and ways of enforcing any advice from manufacturers.
..."Wewe ni mtu mdogo sana....na mwenye amekuandika pia ni mtu mdogo sana!".
Spend.thrift
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 2:38:44 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/11/2009
Posts: 302
That the story is one-sided is not hard to decipher.However lives were lost and any sort of answer is needed.

The KQ accident is only annoying because of the 'reported' arrogance of the guy in charge of the dials - how the hell do you take off into a storm without clearance, even if you believed that the aircraft you are flying has better navigation systems that the mundane ATC at Douala?

It will always be the case that any aviation accident is investigated so thoroughly not so much to place blame but to recommend changes to procedures for aircraft design, maintainance or pilot training. KQ 507 was one such.

Every change in aircraft design from the shape of windows,cleaning procedures, to the guys who stand out directing your walk to the plane has been the result of an accident, like the maintennace guy who was sucked into and minced by a parked 737's engine.

I'm always edgy when the aircraft takes that right bank at JKIA especially at night.
majay
#20 Posted : Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:20:18 PM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 5/28/2011
Posts: 98
This is quite chilling
all about Kenya in 2011
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