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OUR LANGUAGE AFFECTS OUR THINKING
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Kusadikika
#11 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 12:16:26 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/22/2008
Posts: 2,723
essyk wrote:


Very funny but true.It got me thinking,does it mean we are more visual than intellectual? Yaani we cannot grasp directions until we see or use landmarks or we just don't care to know our city well?
Am guilty of this as well but council is doing a good job of putting signs.


[/quote]

I think that may be so. I have had the experience to work with Waafrika and some wazungus on procedures that I have to use my hands to manipulate instruments. Sasa its very easy for me to teach a mwafrika because all I have to do is tell him to do like this (as I show what am doing) then you pull this thing this way (again as I demonstrate)etc....

A big difference I have found with wazungus is that instead of looking at what am doing with my hands they are looking at my face and waiting for the words to describe the actions. First they want all the names of the instruments, (What does it matter to me, I know what it is and where to use it when I see it) then they want a description of the actions you perform with it (I am not good at describing things that I can see)....... anyway the end result I get is people who can describe actions precisely lakini kufanya is another thing.

Which reminds me. Just watch any post marathon interviews of a Kenyan guy who has finished first and an American guy who finished 27th or such other double digit number and you might think the Kenyan knows nothing about running while the American is an expert.
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essyk
#12 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 9:23:47 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
Quote:
, it backfires when i have to rearrange words e.g. "unaenda wapi" can be "you are going where?" instead of "where are you going?".


Thank you for highlighting that.That's how our journalists read news and conduct interviews.
You have packed snacks? instead of 'Have you packed snacks.It's as if we expect an affirmative answer.
You have gone? instead of have you gone? it's annoying but am not innocent either.


Quote:
Just watch any post marathon interviews of a Kenyan guy who has finished first and an American guy who finished 27th or such other double digit number and you might think the Kenyan knows nothing about running while the American is an expert.


lol wacha tusiende hapo.Funny pics crossing my mind now.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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Rahatupu
#13 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 10:01:30 AM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/4/2009
Posts: 1,982
Location: matano manne
Africans also seem not to have specific language for not only space but time as well also the element of volume, size is expressed in the same terms as time. For example if one was to ask his friend to wait a "little" while in Kiswahili they'd say "ngoja kidogo" if they were to say the volume is "small" the'd quip ni "kidogo". Now translate to English: "wait small", the water is "small".

In Liberia I observed how these people speak English in their own language, sample this: "this room is plenty".
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essyk
#14 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 10:18:32 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/15/2011
Posts: 4,518
you know what Rahatupu? The most important thing in life and business is to communicate effectively.Its not really how best since we are not all linguists.
We conform to suit the environment. So if I go shags I talk like they do.If I come to the city and am on the streets I do street talk. But when am in a boardroom, then I am a bit carefull.

Thing is get the message across through actions or words it don't matter.
But not through stones.
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.
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dunkang
#15 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 10:42:29 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 6/2/2011
Posts: 4,824
Location: -1.2107, 36.8831
essyk wrote:

Quote:
Just watch any post marathon interviews of a Kenyan guy who has finished first and an American guy who finished 27th or such other double digit number and you might think the Kenyan knows nothing about running while the American is an expert.


lol wacha tusiende hapo.Funny pics crossing my mind now.


essyk wrote:

Thing is get the message across through actions or words it don't matter.
But not through stones.


That was hard!

But i fully agree with you!

A t my work place, we have people from about 12 countries, 40% of whom are Kenyan of various tribes.

When a Kip-nani says 'the short beam on top of the window' and McArthur says 'Lintel', there is no difference in its design!
Receive with simplicity everything that happens to you.” ― Rashi

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Dash
#16 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 10:55:43 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 677
Location: Nairobi
This is extremely interesting and I have to agree from personal experience. In highschool my main language was english and I now interact alot in Swahili due the crowd I hang with and I have more of the "you are going where" english. So when I am with my old high school friends, I actually feel out of place with my english because it does sound different and they continue speaking as they did
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madammary
#17 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 4:42:55 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/23/2011
Posts: 175
Location: Nairobi
There is a word for all this-LINGUISTIC RELATIVTY:The principle of linguistic relativity holds that the structure of a language affects the ways in which its speakers are able to conceptualize their world, i.e. their world view.
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For Sport
#18 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 5:58:54 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/23/2010
Posts: 1,229
madammary wrote:
There is a word for all this-LINGUISTIC RELATIVTY:The principle of linguistic relativity holds that the structure of a language affects the ways in which its speakers are able to conceptualize their world, i.e. their world view.

would love to explore that further if pointed in the right direction.

Thinking about the question of gender, in kiswahili as in many other african languages, you would have to specify who the actor was before we can decide whether they are male or female.
E.g. Alikuja jana. Modify: Kaka alikuja jana.
In English, there are pronouns that assign gender.
E.g. She/He came yesterday.

Also trying hard to figure out whether there is a kiswahili equivalent for "guilty". We are limited to saying "nilifanya ama sikufanya". Which only communicates the fact that an action took place. There mental aspect (attributing liability/ ascribing responsibility to the individual) is
left out. The closest we can get to distance ourselves from the action which we think we are not responsible for is @ Impunity's "makosa imefanyika". (implying siyo mimi).
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josiah33
#19 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 6:08:35 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
masukuma wrote:
josiah33 wrote:
For Sport wrote:
Very interesting.

Most Kenyans speak at least 3 languages with varying degrees of fluency..English, Kiswahili & the mother tongue. I wonder how this affects / shapes our thinking.

I was wondering the same. What becomes of our thinking with our smattering of English, Kiswahili and a mother tongue?

my theory is that most arable farmers in africa were not good navigators due to the tribal nature of their surrounding (never ventured off the beaten path), perhaps the nilotic pastrolists would comment on how easy it is to give directions using their languages.
back to the point of 3 languages, for me regardless of how long i speak english, I still think in swahili (sheng) and therefore i do a quick translation from sheng/swa to english - occasionally, it backfires when i have to rearrange words e.g. "unaenda wapi" can be "you are going where?" instead of "where are you going?".
however i still communicate. having 2-3 languages is beneficial beneficial as you travel since u can use these languages as a basis to learn similar languages (swahili for arabic, urdu and hindi), english for french and possibly spanish, for kyuks bantu like languages. that's my experience.

I think that multilinguals just like bilinguals in some study, change how they see the world depending on which language they are speaking.
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masukuma
#20 Posted : Monday, March 19, 2012 6:10:05 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,823
Location: Nairobi
i came to a place where I said -shauri yao, its their problem to try and understand me.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
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