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The way to go this is my analysis.
Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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1 . Small biznas in river road Eastleigh and hotels I thought the electronic cash registers were to be used always there are lots of people out there who evade taxes. If we do not want what happened to Greece to happen to us, let everyone pay taxes. Anyone who has been to a hotel either at the coast or anywhere else must have noticed, for my case I visited several hotels and only got the old receipts on paper it’s not that I felt cheated but the price for the night is inclusive of tax which I believe the hotel owners do not pay the real amount if they had the electronic registers it would be very easy. I visited several hotels at the coast, Diani and Malindi places like Naivasha where there are even some who do not issue receipts. 2. MatatusThere should be a ticket system like that of citi hoppa and double M but issued by KRA, everyone should be forced to buy a ticket any time they get into a matatu or bus. In this way KRA will trace the owner and thus get the deductions of the tax. This should also be the system to be adopted by the NCC for their parking. They should go electronic and gadgets are available; jioni ukimaliza shift the gadget is fed to a comp and voila the real value is known hakuna hizi receipt za karatasi where anyone can print. 3. Flower farms They have been making lots of profits at the expense of poor Kenyans they should be made to increase the salaries of their employees. Read below 4. Increase: set a minimum salary The gava should set a minimum salo, hourly rate hata kama ni 100 or 70 bob an hour this should really equate almost everyone in the same social status. Read below 5. Everyone to have a contract When we get jobs, we should all have contracts, the gava should come up with just a few (3 or 4) types where conditions of hiring and dismissal are clearly set out. If the employer does not adhere to the set conditions an employee can sue or vice versa. Read below Ministry of labor to have jobless bureaus: to have records of those with jobs With contracts signed, the ministry of labor should have jobless bureaus when one gets a job, records are updated with them, KRA and the gava gets their share + this could be a way of compensating those who do not have jobs, who have worked before and lost their jobs, study the joblessness rates not like the figures we depend on actually with Herufi house. 6. Ministry of sports to start clubs in all counties: creation of stadiums and clubs to attract investment from the rich: To create jobs, sports clubs in all the counties, Kenyans will have money to go watch football matches in their hometowns this will create the like of the English premier league, thus attracting investments ,awarding talents and creating jobs hata kama ni za security men during matches. In fact the ministry has a very high potential. 7. Change of postal system: boxes at home: security and more jobs for postal: profitability We ought to change the postal system kila mtu awe na letter box nyumbani, juakali ones would be very cheap and thus instead of using a village primary school postal address to send your mail or parcel they are delivered @ your door step. This will stimulate e-commerce and even more jobs for the cashless postal they could employ watu wa baiskeli to deliver mails. This would also reduce fraud, KRA, Kenya power, simu, health issues like in case of an emergency one can say I live in 24 Muthurua Street in Huruma blabla Kenya has the potential. More views welcome 
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Rank: Member Joined: 2/20/2007 Posts: 767
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Number 3, 4, 7 are retrogressive ideas. Postal corp need to re-invent themselves. Rather than force salary increase, gava should focus on education, health, the law and economic policy. Salaries will then find a level through normal demand and supply. Arbitrary wage increase only leads to automation and job losses. They must find it difficult....... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority. -G. Massey.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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The point is changing the way Posta operates is the reinvention (postal boxes), I only talked of e-commerce but there are more benefits with private boxes. Instead of collecting your ID at the chief’s camp you have it delivered via registered mail @ home. Criminal records would be easier you can check where the person last lived and more. Setting the minimum salary will just stop exploitation it does not always lead to automation even if it has happened in larger economies; there are also jobs that cannot be automated wholly. As for 3, don’t you see the benefits of setting minimum hourly rate salary? You would get money for the time worked plus being paid for working overtime. Those guys working in Naivasha would live better. 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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One thing I don't like is paying VAT for food in some restaurants and car spare parts..these items should not be taxed...Orbituary announcements(of all things!) used to be taxed at some stage but I think KRA stopped it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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No.1: ETRs are only required for VAT-registered traders. VAT is only collected by those whose annual turnover is Sh5m and above and also professional service providers (accountants, architects etc).
The traders you refer to have a choice to either pay normal income tax or TurnOver Tax (TOT). Many have opted for TOT because it is easier to work out and pay (no "complicated" accounting, just 3% of sales).
No.2: Matatus already pay a much simpler tax than what you are proposing - the Advance Tax paid on the basis of seating capacity. Only problem is that the figures used are too low, in my opinion. Nonetheless, Advance tax is much much easier to collect than having to audit bus tickets from each vehicle!
No 3: You proposal is based on a populism. Show me a business that doesn't make profits at the expense of employees! Welcome to capitalism.
No 5: Requirement of contract already exists in the present laws. The 'jobless bureaus' already exist at Labour offices.
No. 6: How do you propose to raise the money to build the sporting facilities? you write that "Kenyans will have money to go watch football..." When will they get it from?
No. 7: This is already happening. Take a walk around Nairobi and other major towns and you will see street address numbers are coming up. Only problem is that it is being done too slowly - has been going on for last 7 or 8 years!
BTW: the biggest competitor for Posta is the private courier businesses. Even though the law requires them to charge AT LEAST 5 time what Poasta charges, they still deliver more than 70% of mail! Customers prefer them because of security, speed and the fact that they deliver to the doorstep.
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All in all, I get the feeling that you are either domiciled abroad (most likely UK) or you have just recently returned from abroad. This is why you are not aware of the many changes that have happened in Kenya in the last decade.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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Chaka wrote:One thing I don't like is paying VAT for food in some restaurants and car spare parts..these items should not be taxed...Orbituary announcements(of all things!) used to be taxed at some stage but I think KRA stopped it. If you eat in a place whose turnover is above sh5m, you will pay VAT. If you don't want to pay the VAT, eat at home! eating out is a luxury that should also attract Excise Tax. All mass-media advertisements attract VAT. And rightly so. The VAT is charged for the media space or time (on radio & TV); not for the message! even if you paid to have the space left blank (like Trade Bank used to do in the early 1990s) you will still have to pay the VAT. If you don't want to pay VAT for death and funeral announcements, then don't put them in the mass media - after all think about it, what is the point of announcing to 2.5 million people when the message is only intended for a about 250? It's a waste of money if you ask me.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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chiaroscuro wrote:No.1: ETRs are only required for VAT-registered traders. VAT is only collected by those whose annual turnover is Sh5m and above and also professional service providers (accountants, architects etc).
The traders you refer to have a choice to either pay normal income tax or TurnOver Tax (TOT). Many have opted for TOT because it is easier to work out and pay (no "complicated" accounting, just 3% of sales).
No.2: Matatus already pay a much simpler tax than what you are proposing - the Advance Tax paid on the basis of seating capacity. Only problem is that the figures used are too low, in my opinion. Nonetheless, Advance tax is much much easier to collect than having to audit bus tickets from each vehicle!
No 3: You proposal is based on a populism. Show me a business that doesn't make profits at the expense of employees! Welcome to capitalism.
No 5: Requirement of contract already exists in the present laws. The 'jobless bureaus' already exist at Labour offices.
No. 6: How do you propose to raise the money to build the sporting facilities? you write that "Kenyans will have money to go watch football..." When will they get it from?
No. 7: This is already happening. Take a walk around Nairobi and other major towns and you will see street address numbers are coming up. Only problem is that it is being done too slowly - has been going on for last 7 or 8 years!
BTW: the biggest competitor for Posta is the private courier businesses. Even though the law requires them to charge AT LEAST 5 time what Poasta charges, they still deliver more than 70% of mail! Customers prefer them because of security, speed and the fact that they deliver to the doorstep.
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All in all, I get the feeling that you are either domiciled abroad (most likely UK) or you have just recently returned from abroad. This is why you are not aware of the many changes that have happened in Kenya in the last decade. @kiash: like I always say, be very careful what you post on wazua because some one will always point out your ignorance. BTW: No 4 is also already in existence... Listen to ministerial/presidential speeches during Labour Day celebrations [May 1 every year]; and have you forgoten the storm of protests when the 'gava' announced minimum wages for house-maids? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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Thanks @chiaroscuro for pointing some points out but I bet you need a reply
I must say I visited a place in Naivasha where they have a camp near the hippo point (can’t remember the place) I paid and got a receipt with a VAT No(sorry for the ignorance , thought it was meant for everyone ) my point was like I had said about Greece is cut tax.
As for Posta delivery, you said “BTW: the biggest competitor for Posta is the private courier businesses. Even though the law requires them to charge AT LEAST 5 time what Posta charges, they still deliver more than 70% of mail! Customers prefer them because of security, speed and the fact that they deliver to the doorstep.” That’s the point speed and delivery at door step; why shouldn’t Posta adopt such a system and charge 30 or 40% more of what they are charging at the moment?
“No. 6: How do you propose to raise the money to build the sporting facilities? You write that "Kenyans will have money to go watch football..." When will they get it from? “
You must agree with me that today almost every Kenyan whiles out in bars or @home watching European matches ,by the time the match ends they will have drunk several beers, we are talking of about 500ksh . If you charged an entry fee of say 300 for a local match with everything such as security taken care of, I think people will go to the stadiums. The problem today is not money but it’s become fashionable to support a European club and if you are not a fun, you are considered out of fashion just look around in town and see guys clad in ManU, Chelsea etc. Jerseys .Apart from the clubs that own the stadiums where they play, most of them are owned by the equivalent of municipal councils and they pay to play a match there. That was the point.
No 5: Requirement of contract already exists in the present laws. The 'jobless bureaus' already exist at Labor offices. » yes there are contracts already in existence but most of them are not clear in terms of dismissal and hiring like I had said most of the companies just hire and fire at will and give out contracts that have no legal bases.Just go ask how many people are jobless in coast province at the ‘labor offices’ and I can guess the response you are going to get. I think you can discredit my theory but you are aware that these bureaus do not have the figures.
No 3: You proposal is based on a populism. Show me a business that doesn't make profits at the expense of employees! Welcome to capitalism. »
Depends at what expense even if its capitalism, there’s no logic for those companies to make billions in profits while they end up paying pea nuts. Am sure most of them do not even pay the minimum wage that @mukuha says are announced every year at Labor Day.
On the last point I would add up one to create a tourist information office. Even for a Kenyan who wants to visit say Eldy he does not even have adequate information .You have to ask friends if they know the joints around or some good hotel for the weekend. We need to have a tourist information center in every town.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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My comments in bold+dark blue...kiash wrote:Thanks @chiaroscuro for pointing some points out but I bet you need a reply I must say I visited a place in Naivasha where they have a camp near the hippo point (can’t remember the place) I paid and got a receipt with a VAT No(sorry for the ignorance , thought it was meant for everyone ) my point was like I had said about Greece is cut tax. As for Posta delivery, you said “BTW: the biggest competitor for Posta is the private courier businesses. Even though the law requires them to charge AT LEAST 5 time what Posta charges, they still deliver more than 70% of mail! Customers prefer them because of security, speed and the fact that they deliver to the doorstep.” That’s the point speed and delivery at door step; why shouldn’t Posta adopt such a system and charge 30 or 40% more of what they are charging at the moment? Perhaps the solution is to sell off posta the way we sold telkom....“No. 6: How do you propose to raise the money to build the sporting facilities? You write that "Kenyans will have money to go watch football..." When will they get it from? “You must agree with me that today almost every Kenyan whiles out in bars or @home watching European matches ,by the time the match ends they will have drunk several beers, we are talking of about 500ksh . If you charged an entry fee of say 300 for a local match with everything such as security taken care of, I think people will go to the stadiums. The problem today is not money but it’s become fashionable to support a European club and if you are not a fun, you are considered out of fashion just look around in town and see guys clad in ManU, Chelsea etc. Jerseys .Apart from the clubs that own the stadiums where they play, most of them are owned by the equivalent of municipal councils and they pay to play a match there. That was the point. I don't agree with your assumption. I think MOST Kenyans spend their time wondering where their next meal will come from - KNBS estimates that 46% of Kenyans survive on less than 100bob a day. And you think they can spare Sh300 to watch a football match?No 5: Requirement of contract already exists in the present laws. The 'jobless bureaus' already exist at Labor offices. » yes there are contracts already in existence but most of them are not clear in terms of dismissal and hiring like I had said most of the companies just hire and fire at will and give out contracts that have no legal bases.Just go ask how many people are jobless in coast province at the ‘labor offices’ and I can guess the response you are going to get. I think you can discredit my theory but you are aware that these bureaus do not have the figures. I disagree. ALLthe contracts I have ever seen (and I have seen many, from big and small companies alike) are very clear on terms of employment and termination. the problem is that many people (not just Kenyans) are so ignorant that they don't bother reading before signing.
Hiring and firing is always at will. You cannot force an employer to hire anybody and neither can you force them to retain anyone. people are always paid terminal dues according to the contracts and those who are denied their dues always go to court...and win! Want proof? Go to http://www.kenyalaw.org and see the number of cases on this subjectNo 3: You proposal is based on a populism. Show me a business that doesn't make profits at the expense of employees! Welcome to capitalism. » Depends at what expense even if its capitalism, there’s no logic for those companies to make billions in profits while they end up paying pea nuts. Am sure most of them do not even pay the minimum wage that @mukuha says are announced every year at Labor Day. Name the companies that you think "make billions" and "do not even pay the minimum wage" You are begining to sound like Atwoli. He "payukad" things to that effect naming Nakumatt and EQTY. They threatened to sue him and he appologised publickly and admitted that these companies actually pay way above the minimum. No one earns less than 30k in these companies
Don't base your argument on rumours. Name and shame.
And this thing about companies making billions and paying peanuts. Who told people that employees are partners in the business? They are not! Therefore their salaries are not based on the profits madeOn the last point I would add up one to create a tourist information office. Even for a Kenyan who wants to visit say Eldy he does not even have adequate information .You have to ask friends if they know the joints around or some good hotel for the weekend. We need to have a tourist information center in every town. This one I agree with you. The Kenya Tourist Board doesn't know what it's job is. They still assume that tourism is marketed through exhibitions...
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Rank: User Joined: 11/10/2010 Posts: 550 Location: Junction
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kiash wrote:1 . Small biznas in river road Eastleigh and hotels I thought the electronic cash registers were to be used always there are lots of people out there who evade taxes. If we do not want what happened to Greece to happen to us, let everyone pay taxes. Anyone who has been to a hotel either at the coast or anywhere else must have noticed, for my case I visited several hotels and only got the old receipts on paper it’s not that I felt cheated but the price for the night is inclusive of tax which I believe the hotel owners do not pay the real amount if they had the electronic registers it would be very easy. I visited several hotels at the coast, Diani and Malindi places like Naivasha where there are even some who do not issue receipts. 2. MatatusThere should be a ticket system like that of citi hoppa and double M but issued by KRA, everyone should be forced to buy a ticket any time they get into a matatu or bus. In this way KRA will trace the owner and thus get the deductions of the tax. This should also be the system to be adopted by the NCC for their parking. They should go electronic and gadgets are available; jioni ukimaliza shift the gadget is fed to a comp and voila the real value is known hakuna hizi receipt za karatasi where anyone can print. 3. Flower farms They have been making lots of profits at the expense of poor Kenyans they should be made to increase the salaries of their employees. Read below 4. Increase: set a minimum salary The gava should set a minimum salo, hourly rate hata kama ni 100 or 70 bob an hour this should really equate almost everyone in the same social status. Read below 5. Everyone to have a contract When we get jobs, we should all have contracts, the gava should come up with just a few (3 or 4) types where conditions of hiring and dismissal are clearly set out. If the employer does not adhere to the set conditions an employee can sue or vice versa. Read below Ministry of labor to have jobless bureaus: to have records of those with jobs With contracts signed, the ministry of labor should have jobless bureaus when one gets a job, records are updated with them, KRA and the gava gets their share + this could be a way of compensating those who do not have jobs, who have worked before and lost their jobs, study the joblessness rates not like the figures we depend on actually with Herufi house. 6. Ministry of sports to start clubs in all counties: creation of stadiums and clubs to attract investment from the rich: To create jobs, sports clubs in all the counties, Kenyans will have money to go watch football matches in their hometowns this will create the like of the English premier league, thus attracting investments ,awarding talents and creating jobs hata kama ni za security men during matches. In fact the ministry has a very high potential. 7. Change of postal system: boxes at home: security and more jobs for postal: profitability We ought to change the postal system kila mtu awe na letter box nyumbani, juakali ones would be very cheap and thus instead of using a village primary school postal address to send your mail or parcel they are delivered @ your door step. This will stimulate e-commerce and even more jobs for the cashless postal they could employ watu wa baiskeli to deliver mails. This would also reduce fraud, KRA, Kenya power, simu, health issues like in case of an emergency one can say I live in 24 Muthurua Street in Huruma blabla Kenya has the potential. More views welcome You are making a lot of sense here. This should be taken seriously. By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...Gaitho dialogues.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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@kiash; have you ever looked at the audited accounts of any billion-shilling-profit company? Here is an example: KCB made 15b PBT in 2011; their staff costs were 10.8b EQT made 13b PBT in 2011; their staff costs were 6b You may confirm these numbers by going to the respective websites and downloading the recently announced financial statements. With those figures, do you still maintain your position that "those companies make billions in profits while they end up paying pea nuts."? No wonder @Chiaroscuro has accused you of "populism". As I keep saying; be careful what you post in wazua... Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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Thanks @Mukuha, I have looked at the above results but I would also refer you to another forum http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=16896#post266161Well am not sure of the figures given give but paying the staff 35 and 40k in Kenya is really peanuts. What do you do with that? The banks might be consuming too much of their revenue on salaries but it might also be a case having a lot of staff and they end up paying lots of people peanuts. Remember what happened with KCB and even Equity; they saw it necessary to reduce the workforce, think was last year This is no populism, and as you said; Be careful what you post in wazua...
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 4/27/2010 Posts: 951 Location: Nyumbani
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@Chiaruscuro I beg to agree and disagree with some points you have made. Thanks most of them are genuine, when I wrote and suggested a minimum wage “hourly” for employees; it was to deal with the point like the one you replied in blue below:I don't agree with your assumption. I think MOST Kenyans spend their time wondering where their next meal will come from - KNBS estimates that 46% of Kenyans survive on less than 100bob a day. And you think they can spare Sh300 to watch a football match? Name the companies that you think "make billions" and "do not even pay the minimum wage" You are beginning to sound like Atwoli. He "payukad" things to that effect naming Nakumatt and EQTY. They threatened to sue him and he appologised publickly and admitted that these companies actually pay way above the minimum. No one earns less than 30k in these companies On the second point I totally disagree with you on this one ati no one earns less than 30K in Nakumatt, talk to those guys who work there, if they were sincere enough there might be some making above what you have quoted but many more earn less. I got a link from last year and if the Nakumatt boss or the bosses of the flower farms in Naivasha respected the govt announcement, then you have the wage.http://af.reuters.com/article/investingNews/idAFJOE74104G20110502
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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kiash wrote:Thanks @Mukuha, I have looked at the above results but I would also refer you to another forum http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=16896#post266161Well am not sure of the figures given give but paying the staff 35 and 40k in Kenya is really peanuts. What do you do with that?The banks might be consuming too much of their revenue on salaries but it might also be a case having a lot of staff and they end up paying lots of people peanuts. Remember what happened with KCB and even Equity; they saw it necessary to reduce the workforce, think was last year This is no populism, and as you said; Be careful what you post in wazua... Anyone who cannot mange with 35k - 40k per month cannot also not manage with 350k-400k! 35k is enough to get you decent housing, food, clothing, entertainment etc and still leave you with at least 3k savings per month! If you earn that and can't survive on it, then even ten-times the salary will not help! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Oh; and, by the way, have you looked at the price of peanuts recently? They are more expensive coffee! Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Member Joined: 4/24/2009 Posts: 72
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 2/2/2012 Posts: 1,134 Location: Nairobi
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mukiha wrote:kiash wrote:Thanks @Mukuha, I have looked at the above results but I would also refer you to another forum http://www.wazua.co.ke/forum.aspx?g=posts&t=16896#post266161Well am not sure of the figures given give but paying the staff 35 and 40k in Kenya is really peanuts. What do you do with that?The banks might be consuming too much of their revenue on salaries but it might also be a case having a lot of staff and they end up paying lots of people peanuts. Remember what happened with KCB and even Equity; they saw it necessary to reduce the workforce, think was last year This is no populism, and as you said; Be careful what you post in wazua... Anyone who cannot mange with 35k - 40k per month cannot also not manage with 350k-400k! 35k is enough to get you decent housing, food, clothing, entertainment etc and still leave you with at least 3k savings per month! If you earn that and can't survive on it, then even ten-times the salary will not help! Actually, they won't even survive if you give them 3.5m - 4.0m! As Dr. Phil likes to say: "You can't solve people's financial problems by giving them more money"
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