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Konza city Reality.
KenyanLyrics
#161 Posted : Friday, March 02, 2012 12:35:18 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
As a startup founder, here are my two cents:
Konza is not a startup hub, it is a BPO hub. Take a quick look at the architecture plans and you will find that BPO has been given a disproportionate amount of land. Also, if you hear Ndemo public speaking, you will quickly realise that BPO is the government's topmost priority in ICT. Startups are further down the pecking order.
I believe this is the wrong path to take. BPO is a market that has long been cornered by South East Asia. This makes the BPO sector a slow growth area , which will turn many institutional investors off.
Despite all this, I don't hold anything against the government, because you don't need government assistance to become a startup hub.
mkeiy
#162 Posted : Friday, March 02, 2012 1:16:40 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
As a startup founder, here are my two cents:
Konza is not a startup hub, it is a BPO hub. Take a quick look at the architecture plans and you will find that BPO has been given a disproportionate amount of land. Also, if you hear Ndemo public speaking, you will quickly realise that BPO is the government's topmost priority in ICT. Startups are further down the pecking order.
I believe this is the wrong path to take. BPO is a market that has long been cornered by South East Asia. This makes the BPO sector a slow growth area , which will turn many institutional investors off.
Despite all this, I don't hold anything against the government, because you don't need government assistance to become a startup hub.


I think the focus on BPO is the right approach,more employment opportunities. Focusing on start-ups,how is that possible? How will that attract investors to match the space and at the same time create employment?
A single BPO can create hundreds if not thousands of job in a short span of time, how about start-ups?
How many "start-ups" are we even talking about?
How can you project the number of start-ups we'll have in lets say 10 yrs?

South East Asia has cornered that market, true, but as their economies advance farther, their costs will go up. They will concentrate on the high-end stuff,Kenya will be ready to feed on their "left-overs", the low-end stuff they are making now.
You can't go "high-end" with our economy.
We need something that employs the masses.


Remember even "Made In Japan" was once branded as cheap, sub-standard, so did "Made In South Korea".
How about today?

Today's "Made In China" will one day be "state of the art".
You got to start from somewhere.
We start with BPO, then those low end phones, computers, consoles etc will come. Then start ups will have grown in numbers.
We got to be ready coz the time is here.


KenyanLyrics
#163 Posted : Friday, March 02, 2012 10:03:32 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 4/16/2010
Posts: 906
Location: Nairobi
I'm sorry, but investors don't look at employment opportunities when deciding what to put money in. In fact, the more bloated your workforce needs to be, the less scalable a business is, and the less lucrative the opportunity for investors.
mkeiy
#164 Posted : Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:36:18 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
KenyanLyrics wrote:
I'm sorry, but investors don't look at employment opportunities when deciding what to put money in. In fact, the more bloated your workforce needs to be, the less scalable a business is, and the less lucrative the opportunity for investors.


We are talking about BPO, not any other kind of investment here. BPO creates more opportunities. We can't focus on space shuttle,investors might be willing to put their money, but for WHAT benefit to Kenyans? You don't seek investors for the sake, you go for big impact. BPO offers that.
More than designing the next generation keyboard for example.

Also as a country, our focus is not what's best for the investor, but what's best for Kenya.
a4architect.com
#165 Posted : Saturday, March 03, 2012 3:41:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Kenya should learn from China.

See the example below for Youtube.

FYI youtube can not be accessed from China.

They have created their own called youku

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU1NzgzMzEy.html

To enable such ideas, it will require sober political leadership who understand the importance of consuming local goods and services and the dangers of consuming imported goods as explained here

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

For starters, Konza should look for Kenyan Financial Advisors to replace Worldbank IFC and the London based architects/master planners.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#166 Posted : Saturday, March 03, 2012 5:03:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
Kenya should learn from China.

See the example below for Youtube.

FYI youtube can not be accessed from China.

They have created their own called youku

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU1NzgzMzEy.html

To enable such ideas, it will require sober political leadership who understand the importance of consuming local goods and services and the dangers of consuming imported goods as explained here

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

For starters, Konza should look for Kenyan Financial Advisors to replace Worldbank IFC and the London based architects/master planners.


I see you have changed your mind on konza. Ok so give us reasons why the worldbank should not be involved and why the change of heart.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
selah
#167 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 10:11:16 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
mkeiy wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
I'm sorry, but investors don't look at employment opportunities when deciding what to put money in. In fact, the more bloated your workforce needs to be, the less scalable a business is, and the less lucrative the opportunity for investors.


We are talking about BPO, not any other kind of investment here. BPO creates more opportunities. We can't focus on space shuttle,investors might be willing to put their money, but for WHAT benefit to Kenyans? You don't seek investors for the sake, you go for big impact. BPO offers that.
More than designing the next generation keyboard for example.

Also as a country, our focus is not what's best for the investor, but what's best for Kenya.


Actually when you are attracting foreign investors/FDI you should focus on what is best for the investor.For instance.

-Ease of doing business-Its a pity that the reforms that were being put in place to reduce the time of registering a company has stalled..its tedious and expensive to set up a business here in Kenya.Why cant we have a one stop station where an investor can get everything he needs to set up shop.

-Electricity -we have a very unreliable power supply that relies mostly on hydro during the dry seasons the power tariffs are very high and sometime we have to deal with rationing...That alone makes Kenya uncompetitive.

-Inflation -The government is unable to control this the erratic movement of the rate of inflation makes it difficult for companies to control costs.

Supply chain- our ports and other transport system need an overhaul,the congestion in our ports and roads and delays
at our airports need to be addressed urgently.

Finally last week we had a cable cut and the internet speed was slow in almost all major players...Contegency plans need to be put in place to protect BPO operators from such outages



'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
mkeiy
#168 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 12:53:07 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
selah wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
KenyanLyrics wrote:
I'm sorry, but investors don't look at employment opportunities when deciding what to put money in. In fact, the more bloated your workforce needs to be, the less scalable a business is, and the less lucrative the opportunity for investors.


We are talking about BPO, not any other kind of investment here. BPO creates more opportunities. We can't focus on space shuttle,investors might be willing to put their money, but for WHAT benefit to Kenyans? You don't seek investors for the sake, you go for big impact. BPO offers that.
More than designing the next generation keyboard for example.

Also as a country, our focus is not what's best for the investor, but what's best for Kenya.


Actually when you are attracting foreign investors/FDI you should focus on what is best for the investor.For instance.

-Ease of doing business-Its a pity that the reforms that were being put in place to reduce the time of registering a company has stalled..its tedious and expensive to set up a business here in Kenya.Why cant we have a one stop station where an investor can get everything he needs to set up shop.

-Electricity -we have a very unreliable power supply that relies mostly on hydro during the dry seasons the power tariffs are very high and sometime we have to deal with rationing...That alone makes Kenya uncompetitive.

-Inflation -The government is unable to control this the erratic movement of the rate of inflation makes it difficult for companies to control costs.

Supply chain- our ports and other transport system need an overhaul,the congestion in our ports and roads and delays
at our airports need to be addressed urgently.

Finally last week we had a cable cut and the internet speed was slow in almost all major players...Contegency plans need to be put in place to protect BPO operators from such outages




Q aelah, What's your point? I don't get it.
But i will repeat,as a country you look at what's best for the country.
When all those bottlenecks are addressed, who benefits MORE? Kenyans is say, Kenyans.

If we assume three factors of production,1.LAND 2. LABOR. 3.CAPITAL [that may include but not limited to,machinery,finance,human capital]. the rewards for the first two, should outweigh the investor's reward which is PROFIT!

The first two, land and labor is what i'm talking about.

As a gov't you just CAN'T focus on making the investor rich at the expense of the first two factors of production. Wages and Rents[including taxes] have to be more than the profits.
a4architect.com
#169 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 4:49:53 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
Kenya should learn from China.

See the example below for Youtube.

FYI youtube can not be accessed from China.

They have created their own called youku

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzU1NzgzMzEy.html

To enable such ideas, it will require sober political leadership who understand the importance of consuming local goods and services and the dangers of consuming imported goods as explained here

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._of_an_Economic_Hit_Man

For starters, Konza should look for Kenyan Financial Advisors to replace Worldbank IFC and the London based architects/master planners.


I see you have changed your mind on konza. Ok so give us reasons why the worldbank should not be involved and why the change of heart.



@murchr

The reasons why Worldbank should not be involved are

1. Worldbank advised Ministry of Info to buy 5000 acres instead of using other JV options such as partnering with EA Portland cement with 14000 acres of vacant land next to Konza city.

The 1 Billion tax payer money could then have been used to lay fiber optic cable e.t.c

2. World bank advised Ministry of Info to hire London based Architects and town planners instead of local architects.
This is costly due to logistics costs and has resulted in 2 months delay since the London based architects did not advice Ministry of Info on Physical planning act requirements.

3. Kenya gets exposed to poverty creation risks as outlined in this book below

http://en.wikipedia.org/...s_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#170 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 6:02:30 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
http://www.standardmedia...d=470&currentPage=2

Is Kenya Ready for Mega Cities?

Published on 07/09/2011

Flagship projects

Phase one of the development includes a BPO park, five-star hotels, a stadium and social amenities typical of a modern city.

International Design Engineers and Pell Frischmann (London) came up with master planning options for the project while local information communication technology consultants, Summit Strategies Limited, prepared a preliminary market demand data for the BPO sector.

The International Finance Corporation — part of the World Bank — commissioned international consultants to study the master plan.

The consultants are also to scrutinise its economic viability and develop a detailed development proposal for the 20-year multi-billion shilling project.

Ndemo says the development that is among the Vision 2030 flagship projects will host several skyscrapers.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#171 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 7:12:48 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Are you afraid that the cities will not be fruitful? Am thinking you have this convictions that we may create cities that will not have any settlement.

Are there any Kenyan architects who have designed cities such as Konza in the past....experience matters? Am sure this group of architects worked with a local group even tho he is not mentioned.

Dont take the word of the economic hitman as the gospel truth, the guy also wants to sell his book

"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#172 Posted : Monday, March 05, 2012 7:43:58 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Mutiso Mensses designed Eastlands in the 70s and 80s. The firm is till very alive and active.

http://www.mmiarch.com/v...ct.php?projecttypeid=10

EDG and Artelier recently designed Thika Greens successfully.

http://www.thikagreens.co.ke/index.php?id=31

Dimensions Architects are doing a great job with Migaa Housing project.
http://www.constructionk...t-migaa-housing-scheme/

I have also designed part of extension of Nairobi City here

http://www.a4architect.c...signed-to-become-green/

If there was a local architect, we could not have heard about the 2 month delay caused by lack of foresight in terms of Physical Planning act.

Any Kenyan architect knows this act like the back of their hands so they cant overlook something so obvious.


Why didn't Ministry of Information partner with EA Portland cement who own 14000 acres next to Konza?

The Economic Hitman confession book has some truth too if looked at objectively.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#173 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:16:36 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Dont you think EA Portland has use of that land? Besides EAP has a loan with the govt of Japan and am sure the land is some form of security and the other day as i was watching news i noticed that people had settled on the land and were demonstrating saying that they are not going to leave. Would you lure investors to venture in such land...?

As for the local architect....i dont know why the ministry involved an architect from london but i know Ndemo can answer that.

I am not saying that Kenyan architects are not good enough, but none has accomplished a huge modern project like Konza.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
jamplu
#174 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:38:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
murchr wrote:
Dont you think EA Portland has use of that land? Besides EAP has a loan with the govt of Japan and am sure the land is some form of security and the other day as i was watching news i noticed that people had settled on the land and were demonstrating saying that they are not going to leave. Would you lure investors to venture in such land...?

As for the local architect....i dont know why the ministry involved an architect from london but i know Ndemo can answer that.

I am not saying that Kenyan architects are not good enough, but none has accomplished a huge modern project like Konza.


Those claiming to own the EAPC land are just wasting their time anyone from Machakos and Makueni knows what belongs to the govt and what belongs to the locals. Look for the borders for these areas Syokimau, Kasanga, Kusyombunguo, Kwa Malinda, Maanzoni, Kwa Mwambi, Konza and Malili.
a4architect.com
#175 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 8:39:49 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
Dont you think EA Portland has use of that land? Besides EAP has a loan with the govt of Japan and am sure the land is some form of security and the other day as i was watching news i noticed that people had settled on the land and were demonstrating saying that they are not going to leave. Would you lure investors to venture in such land...?

As for the local architect....i dont know why the ministry involved an architect from london but i know Ndemo can answer that.

I am not saying that Kenyan architects are not good enough, but none has accomplished a huge modern project like Konza.


@murchr..the EAP Cement 14000 acre land 99 year title expired a few years ago. The Minister for Lands has not yet re-newed the lease.

Minister for Lands at expiry of title lease can re-change the land size e.t.c to conform and acomodate Konza.

Land without a title can not be collateral in any bank so the land is fre from encumbrances.

For the last 100 years, EAP Cement has not used the land at all-its vacant and bare.

Land without a title is ripe for political machinations and thats why squatters have invaded it.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#176 Posted: : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:01:43 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
Dont you think EA Portland has use of that land? Besides EAP has a loan with the govt of Japan and am sure the land is some form of security and the other day as i was watching news i noticed that people had settled on the land and were demonstrating saying that they are not going to leave. Would you lure investors to venture in such land...?

As for the local architect....i dont know why the ministry involved an architect from london but i know Ndemo can answer that.

I am not saying that Kenyan architects are not good enough, but none has accomplished a huge modern project like Konza.


@murchr..any 1st year university architecture student can come up with a sensible city master plan.

The hard work is implementing the actual buildings in design and construction project management.

Architects like J.Kibwage of Triad Architects,Muthaiga did Barclays plaza and Times Tower.

To them, a city master plan is child's play.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#177 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:10:54 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Look at this impressive CV for Architect James Njuguna Gitoho of Triad Architects

http://architecturekenya...t-james-njuguna-gitoho/

http://www.triad.co.ke/home.htm

Local consultants like these could have gone a long way to save tax payers money from going to London-based architects.


The saved money could have gone into repairing the broken fibre optic cable at the coast.

We are currently facing a very slow internet connection in Kenya.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#178 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:01:34 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
This is still not a city
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
alma
#179 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:10:56 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
murchr wrote:
This is still not a city


if you can't trust Kenyan architects who've proven they can actually build houses, then how do you trust the IT guys who just say they can?
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
eboomerang
#180 Posted : Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:18:11 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 6/27/2011
Posts: 301
Location: Nairobi
An extract from an article in the Daily Nation.

Quote:
"According to the permanent secretary in the Ministry of Information, Dr Bitange Ndemo, local BPOs are heavily challenged, mainly due to lack of developed facilities and space.....

Mr Kukubo admits that Kenyan companies have had challenges on capacity, which has meant that some of the projects that require high level technical capability have gone elsewhere.

“The Kenyan market did not have the talent that is needed to spur such a fast growth. That is why we moved to launch a Centre of Excellence to bridge the gap,” says Mr Kukubo. The achievements of the said centre are yet to be made public.


Last year, the board partnered with IBM to conduct a study aimed at reviewing the status and availability of high-end ICT talent and to propose a framework to address the talent gap in both the short and the long term on a sustainable basis.


With the challenge of capacity, the board shifted its focus to attracting more international companies, hoping that they would transfer skills to local counterparts, in the process of executing their projects.


Late last year, the board awarded a $32 million contract to Dimension Data, an international firm, for Internet Protocol telephony project interconnecting all government ministries.


Some projects have gone to local companies but not in the magnitude of contracts given to international firms....


Research on the status of the BPO sector and its contribution to the GDP in India, South Africa, Ghana and Mauritius convinced several people in Kenya to set up companies.

But the expected growth of these companies took a different turn on the backdrop of stringent competition from international firms, which have accumulated experience and know-how.


For instance, after establishing its regional office in Nairobi, IBM has bagged contracts with local banks to set up and maintain their data centre infrastructure.

For IBM, its focus on the finance sector has led to more than $200 million in contracts from banks and governments in Kenya, Cameroon, Ethiopia and Senegal, among others. Their focus on solutions and ability to handle rising consumer demand has endeared them to high spending IT sectors
"


This is what we mean when we say that we are climbing the tree from the top, and it will not work if we continue to do it that way. In the case that it works, it will not be for our own good.

I have no idea who is advising Bitange on this one, he is either being misled intentionally by some "consultants" or the team lacks better judgement on the matter.

My humble opinion still remains valid
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