@alma no one told you to shut up its your right anyway!
but as you poke you don't tear up people and their efforts in the name of ensuring they get it right probably if it were you you wouldn't get it right.
We don't have to talk like konza shouldn't be done or everything is being done the wrong way because we have our shortcomings. The source of some of those shortcomings is all of us kenyans we tend to blame the leadership yet we put them there. We can still make steps forward with the issues that we have, we don't have to sit still until everything is perfect.

And i don't see any problem with the indians being investors in kenya they have also had their share in contributing to other areas like silicon valley get used to it we can't build konza on our own thats a fact you will have to live with.
Those offering Ndemo kudos and high fives appreciate at least he is doing something. There is some effort even if there are problems in the project.

@murchr..i have included a link for people to see the rest of the conversation. Its several pages long so it cant all fit into the post.
Here is the link again for the full conversation.

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626


ICT Board/Ministry of Info are doing a great job in conceiving a new city.

In this quest,as in any project, they get caught up in situations which need solutions.Some of the solutions can be obtained from Wazua for free, saving Kenyans alot of tax payer money.


Healthy debate from me and you and any other patriotic Kenyan will go a long way in ensuring the project runs smoothly.Healthy debate based on facts will not take us behind.

For example, in the issue of Sammeer where Investors are moving out because there are no fire escapes, any Kenyan architect would do the design and manage the construction to completion in 2 weeks,resolving the issue so that the investors continue their stay.

In the issue of the overseas architects/master planners not advising the ICT Board on the Physical Planning act requirements, any Kenyan Architect/Master planner would have advised the ICT Board within 5/10 minutes since the info is in their fingertips.

This would have gone a long way to reduce the 2 month delay that the project is currently dealing with and any other unforeseeable hurdle in terms of Physical planning regulations.


A request for info here at Wazua by the ICT Board would have given them free consultation as opposed to the World bank/IFC/overseas architects consultation they are currently receiving which could be costly for obvious reasons.

Here is a good read on why homegrown solutions are best for Kenya.

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

http://blog.libertarian....08/06/lords-of-poverty/

Yes. S.Korea Govt came up with its own homegrown solutions without the help of Worldbank/IFC.
S.Koreans were made to consume +local+..this includes consultancy services too.

If i was in S.Korea, chances are a fellow Wazuan would have come up with the Financial advisory/Architectural master planning as opposed to the current Kenya situation whereby these services are being offered by Worlbank/IFC/overseas architects.

This use of +local+ consultants in S.Korea greatly reduced the chances of happenings described in Hancocks LORDS OF POVERTY book here

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

Kenya ICT Board should emulate S.Korean method and consume +local+ where possible.

At the moment, Kenya ICT Board is consuming Worldbank/IFC for financial advisory and overseas architects/planners for Master planing services at the expense of tax payers money/experience.

@ architect, behind everything that S.Koreans were doing, the US was right there. Without US, S.Korea would be like any of the South East Asian countries. The likes of Cambodia,Vietnam.

Locally [S.Korea], its joked that S.Korea is the 51st state of the US.

So don't be so sure about the "homegrown" solutions. For Korea, it was "enabled" by the US, in our case, don't you think we need some "enabler"?
Korea happened through enable-ment, why CAN'T Kenya?

Don't you think the British "enabled" Hong Kong?

For you to move fast, you need a strong force to accelerate you forward.
That's what Konza is seeking/getting out there.

@jamplu, what we are advocating for is simple realism. To start with, Thika road and Konza are totally different concepts. Thika road is more of a correction of the nonsense that plagues us every morning and I refuse to see it as any meaningful development. We pay taxes to government to get such things done and it's unfortunate it's taken years to get sorted and so we shouldn't see it as a gift from the government. Would you equate the madness that is Msa road and uhuru highways every rush hour to normalcy? I don't think so. Round abouts are an old concept belonging to the 70s and simply putting together an interchange or a subway around the CBD is common sense activity for a country the size of Kenya. It would be development if the interchange was somewhere in Isiolo where it's more of forward thinking and planning.

Back to Konza, this is simple, a man living in mathare slums with all due respect, struggling to nail a permanent job to feed and educate his 3 kids can not one day wake up with a grand idea of living on a one acre residence in riverside and purport to sell that dream to his kids as big picture thinking, they will think their dad is delusional. How about getting simple things fast and then progressing to the riverside dream a while latter. Again a kid who can barely crawl can't begin to want to compete with usain bolt at the 2012 Olympics this year and call it big picture thinking.

Guys already code from the comfort of their homes and various offices in the CBD, why do you need konza city....Ndemo reminds me of Nduva muli of kenya railways and his Golf hotel on the present day railway club. He kept running ads and ended up talking himself hoarse, no investor put a single dime into the project. I am 98% sure Konza is along the same lines as that Golf hotel concept. We don't need concepts we just need simple solutions to our existing problems first. Look at how ugly our airport is or how poor residential development has been for years or our poor state of roads around the city, lack of water in the city and we talk of an ICT city.....My solution to this is sort the basics but in the meantime roll out a residential fibre network and have talent villages/ centers that offer opportunities for young people to learn. Provide credit for ICT related businesses at preferential terms. Have Government and parastatals procure their ICT services/ products from these centers. You will have achieved what you wanted from Konza at a fraction of the cost of Konza while skipping all the risks associated with Konza.

Look people, no serious investors - the type that invest in such projects will put money in Konza apart from speculating mwananchi full of
greed and again you can take this to the bank. Tutakuwa papa hapa tu to tell you we told you so..ndiooo kwani tanakwenda wapi jameni!

More of a narrow rant on generalities, rather than general outlook on specifics..

There is no trained manpower (so was S Korea and India and more so Silicon valley when it started, it was more of R & D and we all know R & D are long shorts into the dark. but when you hit something you are oil/gold field owner.

Horrible infrastructure: Isnt this what Konza is trying to achieve.. build infrastructure? or its only infrastructure when in the comfy of your house?
Can you track the growth of Internet in Kenya? from the days of dial up to present broadband

Horrible institutions? which ones.. if the Min of Infor and Comm.. if Vision2030 wasn't doing things like Konza,Lamu and Thika highway.. then it would to me be a horrible institution.

The IT industry is moving, our institutions are catching up.. those in government lagging behind will either sink or learn to swim.

so are you suggesting we wait and wait..and wait?

wait and see who the new governor of Nairobi or Machakos will be..?

To steer the discussions in a manner that can assist Kenya ICT Board to realise the Konza dream for all of us, let us try to answer these 3 questions..


1. What is the best infrastruture type that the ICT BOard can outlay which will attract investors?
Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve this infrastructure development?

2. What is the budget that ICT Board is working with from the tax payer?

Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve efficient budgetary and financial planning?

3. How much tax payer money is the ICT Board currently spending to pay Worldbank/IFC Financial advisory services and overseas architects and master planners?


Are there additional ideas that Wazuans can contribute to help ICT Board achieve the best financial advisory and architecture/master planning from local consultants?

Internet? Seriously? Ask safaricom why they charge you higher prices for the extra bandwidth you need if the cable was cut is it the government who cut it? Let investors do the last mile for the cables or you expect the government to still do that!!
Meralli can keep his sameer park let those 500 coders have their city if you not interested in it fiine we can invite those indians who makes you feel like puking probably they'll keep you faaaar away.
And what do you mean there is no manpower? There is plenty of IT manpower if thats what you talking about. I've said it in this thread and i'll say it again. The IT guys in kenya don't have to invent a Google or iPad for us to say we have the manpower people are doing other things go to one of their exhibitions at least they are building meaningful stuff Nokia are acknowledging that Microsoft and Twitter and Google are noticing what we are doing. It me and you who vote in those leaders you talking about so don't complain so much about them. Infrastructure we getting there even if it will take us the next 10 years but we will get there.

Here is a good read on why these incomplete and contradictory Wazua arguments will go a long way to assist Kenya ICT Board deliver for us a new city.

The article is 67 years old so it has proved itself to be true.


http://www.econlib.org/l...ary/Essays/hykKnw1.html


+++++++The peculiar character of the problem of a rational economic order is determined precisely by the fact that the knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess. The economic problem of society is thus not merely a problem of how to allocate "given" resources—if "given" is taken to mean given to a single mind which deliberately solves the problem set by these "data." It is rather a problem of how to secure the best use of resources known to any of the members of society, for ends whose relative importance only these individuals know. Or, to put it briefly, it is a problem of the utilization of knowledge which is not given to anyone in its totality.+++++

I thot you gave the figures sometimes back. Anyway ICT board usually has stakeholder meetings you may wish to attend one of these days