wazua Tue, Feb 4, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

4 Pages«<234
Hardtalk: state funerals
masukuma
#61 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:43:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
the settlers here were stubborn very stubborn and in 1951 they managed to get their way by replacing Sir Philip Euen Mitchell with Sir Evelyn Baring who was more pro-settlers. the new governor was a bad man and the armed struggle took off during his period. the armed struggle painted africans as brutish and made political struggles by the likes of Kenyatta unfruitful as the very stubborn settlers painted the political struggle as a front to the brutish violent struggle and the British parliament bought that story. therefore the pro-settler administration trump up charges on Kenyatta - that he was was a Mau-Mau and thus he went to jail. It wasn't until the Hola massacre (or leakage of the that information to the British parliament) that the British parliament were utterly disgusted by how Evelyn Baring and his settlers had been treating natives and resolved to get Kenyans independence quickly. The Mau-Mau struggle was counter productive to political efforts led by the likes of Kenyatta. political struggles are what gave all those countries I had listed - independence.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#62 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 2:55:52 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
YesuWangu wrote:
Masukuma, it appears we were given. The dominos were already falling. It was just a matter of time before the kenyan one was arrived at. But lets be kind to the veterans. They sincerely believe they fought for it. This news will break their hearts.

yeah, it will...that's why we cannot go shouting from the roof tops that people die in vain, braved the rain and lived in the forests for something they would have received none the less.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
masukuma
#63 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 3:04:19 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
I have read a quote by Philip Euen Mitchell talking about Africans -
"They are a people who, however much natural ability and however admirable attributes they may possess, are without a history, culture or religion of their own and in that they are, as far as I know, unique in the modern world"

Africans were unique in that we were locked away from the most of the 'known' world until the scramble for Africa, thus unlike Asia or south America we did not receive western education, the systems of governance that were picking up in the 'known' world. However, as even noted by Sir Mitchell, this did not mean that we were lesser beings we had natural ability, it just meant we were 'uncultured'. Now that we have a window and we have built a culture and some history, its upto us not to focus on what did not go right at the time when we were ignorant but to focus ahead and with what we have create our own model of development, learning from what others have done but not copying theirs...unless you want to be where they are in 100 years.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Lolest!
#64 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:15:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
masukuma wrote:

what about South Africa and Zimbabwe?

South Africa 1931 (or 1910)
Zimbabwe 1965
[/quote]
When was the African able to get the right to govern himself without discrimination in those countries? It was not just a matter of getting Mzungu packing but being free from hut tax, kipande system, discrimination and other evils of the white man's rule.

Ian Smith's govt in Zimbabwe was not given independence, they unilaterally declared it!

I find a lot of similarity between Zimbabwe and Kenya. The settler community would get the governor on their side on anything and with white minority political parties being created, it was only a matter of time before they attempted to do a UDI.

Granted, the KLFA did not rout the Brits out of Kenya through battlefield victory but we MUST not assume that the whites were going to leave Kenya that easily.

Probably they would have slowly decolonised us to a point of us getting independence in the early 70s, probably.

This is one issue that will remain in debate for long and it is hard for us to draw a conclusion.

BTW what if Mzungu had stayed on until, say, 1975? Would we be better off?

Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#65 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 10:29:41 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:

Lolest! wrote:

masukuma wrote:

what about South Africa and Zimbabwe?

South Africa 1931 (or 1910)
Zimbabwe 1965

When was the African able to get the right to govern himself without discrimination in those countries? It was not just a matter of getting Mzungu packing but being free from hut tax, kipande system, discrimination and other evils of the white man's rule.

Ian Smith's govt in Zimbabwe was not given independence, they unilaterally declared it!

I find a lot of similarity between Zimbabwe and Kenya. The settler community would get the governor on their side on anything and with white minority political parties being created, it was only a matter of time before they attempted to do a UDI.

Granted, the KLFA did not rout the Brits out of Kenya through battlefield victory but we MUST not assume that the whites were going to leave Kenya that easily.

Probably they would have slowly decolonised us to a point of us getting independence in the early 70s, probably.

This is one issue that will remain in debate for long and it is hard for us to draw a conclusion.

BTW what if Mzungu had stayed on until, say, 1975? Would we be better off?



you are misusing the words independence and colonisation!
independence is simply for a country to carry our its business in house. using your definition - the US is not Independent! the American Indians are not ruling it.
Colonisation is having a territory under political control of another state. it has nothing to do with freedoms that you seek nor by the ruling of the natives. Candada, Australia, new Zealand are still under the queen of england although they have self rule. many other colonies exist today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony
What is 'better off'? would we have had more infrastructure - no! the muzungu built infrastructure to places which were profitable to him. if he did not do it in 63 years, why would he do it in 10?. look at the design of our country, roads e.t.c. most towns within 100kms of the railroad. The mzungu was not asking himself - "Now, what would this Africans need?" he was asking himself, "Now, What do I need?"
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
pariah
#66 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:06:31 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 11/24/2011
Posts: 833
B.Timer wrote:
For effective effort deployment one needs to analyse their situation correctly then direct their energies towards a path that brings the desired results - in the most cost effective way.

Our situation was that we were directly under the Queen in England, as represented here by the Governor.

It is the Queen's hand that we wanted off our back.

Hence the person to negotiate/fight - (in Mau mau case) with, was the Queen or her appointed representative.

Opting to engage in armed conflict with the Queen's Govt was a huge mistake given their warfare might.


If we had negotiated with UK and convinced them that we needed and were ready to run our affairs (as patronising as it sounds), and they agreed and pulled out, then some nondiscript settlers attempted to ride rough shod on us, you can be sure they wouldnt have got anywhere without the support of the UK govt.




i cant think of a more naive thing to say on this topic, you simply nailed it
Lolest!
#67 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:20:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
@masuks, i have not disputed the definition of independence! As I said before, the struggle was not just about independence from London but other issues like forced labour and official racial discrimination. Zim was not given independence in 65, they grabbd it
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
masukuma
#68 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 11:30:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/4/2006
Posts: 13,821
Location: Nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
@masuks, i have not disputed the definition of independence! As I said before, the struggle was not just about independence from London but other issues like forced labour and official racial discrimination. Zim was not given independence in 65, they grabbd it

my point is...we didn't have to fight. it was counter productive to fight.
All Mushrooms are edible! Some Mushroom are only edible ONCE!
Jaluo
#69 Posted : Friday, March 02, 2012 9:06:51 AM
Rank: New-farer


Joined: 6/22/2011
Posts: 72
Location: Joburg
@ Masukuma

Quote: ‘’What is a tribe? its just grouping! there is nothing wrong with being tribal its about origin, when moved at a higher level its called patriotism (especially by countries that have a single tribe i.e. England, france e.t.c)’’

A tribe is not just a grouping. It is a genetic and cultural identity. It is unique like fingerprints. A grouping is a country or nation state like Kenya, which was creating based on a territorial ‘’grouping’’ to suit the Colonizers in 1884-1885.

In France by the way, they do not have a single tribe. French is the main ethnic group at 84%, but they also have the Bretons, Corsicans, Occitans, Alsatians, Normans, Picards,Savoyards, Basques and Flemings.

England also has also Cornish, Manx, Romani and Channel Islanders.
'' The European condemns the Africans for having two wives yet he keeps two mistresses'' - Jomo Kenyatta
Users browsing this topic
Guest (6)
4 Pages«<234
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.