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Konza city Reality.
jguru
#121 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:10:28 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 10/25/2007
Posts: 1,574
Dr.Ndemo says:
"At the moment I am literally wading through politicians wanting “something” from Konza and promising heaven for me. As you know this does not work with the new dispensation. These promises are more true for Kamiti rather that the heavens. In most cases it is the fellow staff you work with that colude with politicians to create the mess." [http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295]


Dr.Ndemo admits the politics of Konza are overwhelming. There is too much money to be "eaten" at Konza. I am sure "powerful forces" will kick Dr.Ndemo out. Soon. Then Konza will become a proper white elephant, with a mad-rush/free-for-all for land. Konza needs more critical thought than a solo-driven effort. Sort out the human resource, the energy and the internet access first.
Set out to correct the world's wrongs and you will most certainly wind up adding to them.
a4architect.com
#122 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:31:21 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
mkeiy wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
..if the Govt can support the crucial ICT parts e.g ICT -related infrastructure as priority, then the City can be realized.

If the Govt prioritizes land purchase and paying international architects/planners first, then there will be too much over reliance on investors.


What you say dude? You were complaining of gov't investing, now you are not happy with OVER RELIANCE on investors. You seem to be shifting goals posts.

On zoning,gov't can only mold what it controls. Setting by-laws of how to sub-divide and all, what IF the owners don't want to subdivide? It's only prudent to acquire the land first, then mold it to the desired plan. It is happening now coz the gov't has control over the land.

On infrastructure, South Korea is the most wired country in the world,their internet speeds beat the rest of the world hands down. Even the remotest of ma-ul [village] has high-speed internet connection. If its only internet, then S.Koreans should be the masters of start-ups,[since on this forum, ICT has been taken to be START-UPS only].

Silicon valley happens to do what it does today coz of the environment. An idea is easily funded. Think of facebook coming from a place like Thika, how far would it have gone? Konza city is convergence of the missing elements in the rest of the country,currently. Just coz every school has a football pitch, doesn't mean we have Messis everywhere in Kenya. But if we had a center for football,with all the footballing minds,the skills we have around would be horned to more refined talent. The ICT talents will be horned in Konza,if need be.

With Konza,most of the missing ICT elements will be brought next door. LINKAGE!

Nothing can be done in a vacuum [investing-wise], buildings are part of the equation. If you need school, you build the physical structures first, a church, the same, a prison , the same.

You have also argued that with Konza city or not, a city would have developed over time, along Mombasa road. A city like KITENGELA? MLOLONGO? That's the kind of cities you are talking about? Microsoft with its East and Central Africa offices in MLOLONGO? I give it to you.


@mkeiy..you are getting me wrong. Am not complaining. I am expressing my personal views in the hope that this might assist ICT Board to make better decisions for the sake of all Kenyans, you and me included.
My issue is that
1. If ICT Board doesn't have enough tax payer funds then it could have been a better idea to reduce the amount invested in buying land[KES 800m] and utilise other methods to achieve the same dream/goal e.g zoning controls.

On OVERRELIANCE , this is a response to this here. The quality of arguments here in Wazua is proof that Kenya has people who can offer equal or better consultancy/advisory/managerial services than IFC/World bank.

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295

the quote is as below:

''Robert, We have thought about your model but rejected it. It is not for nothing that I have written about our values in this forum. We simply have a weaknesses at managing our resources especially large projects. This is why I needed IFC and possibly a foreign Master Developer in order to deliver the project without the possibility of going to jail.''


On zoning, please explain to us how the Govt is implementing and enforcing a 10km buffer zone around the ICT city.

See here for more info on how Govt has already started implementing zoning mechanisms on land it does not own around Konza.This goes to prove that Local Govt bylaws apply to all lands within Kenya republic as opposed to only lands that Govt owns.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202202026.html



South Korea's Samsung is the world's biggest IT maker. See here for details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Electronics

http://semimd.com/blog/2...ram-market-share-in-q3/

The highest probability is that the comp me and you are suing to communicate in Wazua have their DRAM from South Korea.

The company that is the leader of Online presence/advert in Kenya/East Africa, Nation media group has a factory in Mlolongo.

The company that is the leader of telephony/money transfer in Kenya/East Africa ,Safaricom has its Customer care offices in Mlolongo.

Nairobi City also started with low rise buildings along River road,Kijabe street.These have grown into the marvelous skyscrapers we see in CBD e.g Times Tower.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#123 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:15:12 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
a4architect.com wrote:
mkeiy wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
..if the Govt can support the crucial ICT parts e.g ICT -related infrastructure as priority, then the City can be realized.

If the Govt prioritizes land purchase and paying international architects/planners first, then there will be too much over reliance on investors.


What you say dude? You were complaining of gov't investing, now you are not happy with OVER RELIANCE on investors. You seem to be shifting goals posts.

On zoning,gov't can only mold what it controls. Setting by-laws of how to sub-divide and all, what IF the owners don't want to subdivide? It's only prudent to acquire the land first, then mold it to the desired plan. It is happening now coz the gov't has control over the land.

On infrastructure, South Korea is the most wired country in the world,their internet speeds beat the rest of the world hands down. Even the remotest of ma-ul [village] has high-speed internet connection. If its only internet, then S.Koreans should be the masters of start-ups,[since on this forum, ICT has been taken to be START-UPS only].

Silicon valley happens to do what it does today coz of the environment. An idea is easily funded. Think of facebook coming from a place like Thika, how far would it have gone? Konza city is convergence of the missing elements in the rest of the country,currently. Just coz every school has a football pitch, doesn't mean we have Messis everywhere in Kenya. But if we had a center for football,with all the footballing minds,the skills we have around would be horned to more refined talent. The ICT talents will be horned in Konza,if need be.

With Konza,most of the missing ICT elements will be brought next door. LINKAGE!

Nothing can be done in a vacuum [investing-wise], buildings are part of the equation. If you need school, you build the physical structures first, a church, the same, a prison , the same.

You have also argued that with Konza city or not, a city would have developed over time, along Mombasa road. A city like KITENGELA? MLOLONGO? That's the kind of cities you are talking about? Microsoft with its East and Central Africa offices in MLOLONGO? I give it to you.


@mkeiy..you are getting me wrong. Am not complaining. I am expressing my personal views in the hope that this might assist ICT Board to make better decisions for the sake of all Kenyans, you and me included.
My issue is that
1. If ICT Board doesn't have enough tax payer funds then it could have been a better idea to reduce the amount invested in buying land[KES 800m] and utilise other methods to achieve the same dream/goal e.g zoning controls.

On OVERRELIANCE , this is a response to this here. The quality of arguments here in Wazua is proof that Kenya has people who can offer equal or better consultancy/advisory/managerial services than IFC/World bank.

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295

the quote is as below:

''Robert, We have thought about your model but rejected it. It is not for nothing that I have written about our values in this forum. We simply have a weaknesses at managing our resources especially large projects. This is why I needed IFC and possibly a foreign Master Developer in order to deliver the project without the possibility of going to jail.''


On zoning, please explain to us how the Govt is implementing and enforcing a 10km buffer zone around the ICT city.

See here for more info on how Govt has already started implementing zoning mechanisms on land it does not own around Konza.This goes to prove that Local Govt bylaws apply to all lands within Kenya republic as opposed to only lands that Govt owns.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201202202026.html



South Korea's Samsung is the world's biggest IT maker. See here for details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Electronics

http://semimd.com/blog/2...ram-market-share-in-q3/

The highest probability is that the comp me and you are suing to communicate in Wazua have their DRAM from South Korea.

The company that is the leader of Online presence/advert in Kenya/East Africa, Nation media group has a factory in Mlolongo.

The company that is the leader of telephony/money transfer in Kenya/East Africa ,Safaricom has its Customer care offices in Mlolongo.

Nairobi City also started with low rise buildings along River road,Kijabe street.These have grown into the marvelous skyscrapers we see in CBD e.g Times Tower.


On the red. Boss.....are you trying to say that you would encourage Google and Microsoft to set up base at Mlolongo? d'oh! No one will come to kenya if the best place they can set up is Mlolongo. FYI all those companies willing to tap into the IT talent will have to congregate for networking purposes.

On the green. South Korea is another China is you ask me. They are good at replicating what others have created.

Read this: http://www.dubaiinternetcity.com/
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#124 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 7:11:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
murchr wrote:
[quote=a4architect.com][quote=mkeiy][quote=a4architect.com]..

On the red. Boss.....are you trying to say that you would encourage Google and Microsoft to set up base at Mlolongo? d'oh! No one will come to kenya if the best place they can set up is Mlolongo. FYI all those companies willing to tap into the IT talent will have to congregate for networking purposes.

On the green. South Korea is another China is you ask me. They are good at replicating what others have created.

Read this: http://www.dubaiinternetcity.com/



@murchr...Google and Microsoft usually employ services of Real Estate professionals of international repute[e.g Knight Frank, CB Richard Ellis] to carry out feasibility studies regarding best office location.
They can afford the KES 300m per acre CBD/Upper Hill plots where ICT infrastructure is at its best in Kenya.

Straw Man Argument:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Regarding South Korea and China, this should open up another avenue for debate here in Wazua.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
murchr
#125 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 7:24:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
February 26, 2012 at 4:13 pm
A facility like Konza is overdue. So far we have more than 18 Universities both local and International wanting space at the Science Park. The Park is just next to the IT Enabled Services Park. This is the only way you can develop the tripple helix (Universities, Government and Industry) in order to enhance innovation and competitiveness.

When you see Giant organization like Nokia setting up at I-Hub it tells you we are behind in what we have been doing. Indeed our thinking has always been minimalist and always comparing ourselves with Somalia. We must begin to develop the confidence to compete with the best. We have just started and we must continue to encourage this.

I have explained the Sameer debacle in an earlier post. We must now develop the SEC Law quickly so that we can create the necessary incentives.

Ndemo.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
a4architect.com
#126 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 7:33:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
^^^^^^^^^^^^..I totally agree on Dr. Ndemo's words ,especially on the Universities part.

Konza city is overdue..how to implement it/execute it can be debated.

Worldbank /IFC are the main transaction advisors since 2009

http://in2eastafrica.net...ty-gets-off-the-ground/

This thread here can help steer the country to the right direction regarding top level management and self-reliance.

http://wazua.co.ke/forum...osts&t=17077&p=2
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#127 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:17:26 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
This is a good read for all Kenyans to help reflect during the Konza City creation...


LORDS OF POVERTY by Graham Hancock.

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

exerpts from the book..
''An increasingly large part of aid budgets is for travel (first class, of course). And most of the travel is not to poverty-stricken areas in the less-developed world, but to poverty seminars normally held at posh hotels in exotic and very attractive locations. In just one year, Hancock notes, the Executive Board of the Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization received $1,759,584 for travel and lodging. During the same time it spent $49,000 on education for handicapped children in Africa, and $1,000 to train teachers in Honduras.

Interestingly, despite the Noblemaire Principle which is supposed to attract experts, U.N. agencies increasingly rely on the expertise of “outside consultants.” The minimum salary for a consultant is $100,000. The average salary is probably closer to $150,000. Since the number of consultants exceeds 150,000, this puts the cost at more than $22 billion. When the salaries of the regular employees are combined with the costs of consultants, the amount is well over half of all that is spent by governments on aid each year. In fact, “personnel and associated costs,” Hancock notes, “today absorb a staggering 80percent of all U.N. expenditures.”

Groups with political clout in the First World are also major recipients. The purpose of food aid was and is to help dispose of farm surpluses in the First World. The tragedy of this is that struggling Third World farmers are often driven out of business by the influx of food aid. Similarly, the real rationale of other aid projects, as Hancock amply demonstrates, is not to help the poor in the Third World but the giant corporations in the First. Thus, between 80 percent and 99 percent of all aid money distributed to the Third World is actually spent in the First World in the form of purchase orders. “Western aid,” as Hancock puts it, is used “to create profits for Western companies.”

And finally, Hancock shows that it is no accident that some of the world’s richest people live in the world’s poorest nations. Aid has been regularly siphoned off by Third World leaders. Often this has been done, it should be noted, with the knowledge and thus implicit approval of the aid agencies themselves. The agency term for this larceny is “leakage.” The figures reach into the billions of dollars: an estimated $10 billion for the Marcoses in the Philippines and perhaps $4 billion for President Mobutu in Zaire, to name just two.

Who pays the cost? The taxpayers in the First World and, more important and tragic, the poor in the Third World. To cite just a single example, the Akosombo Dam on the Volta River in Ghana was built with World Bank and other agency money. Its purpose was to provide inexpensive power to the U.S.-owned VALCO aluminum plant and to the wealthy sections of Accra, Ghana. In the process thousands of villagers were displaced, without compensation, when the dam flooded their lands. And since the dam’s completion, well over 100,000 people living in the vicinity have been permanently incapacitated by river blindness. This is far from a unique case.

Aid programs in places such as Indonesia and Brazil have resulted in massive losses of life. Brazil has received $434.3 million to fund its huge resettlement program. The result was the needless destruction of millions of acres of tropical rain-forest (3.6 million acres a year) and the decimation of many of the indigenous Indian tribes. Of the 13,000 settlers arriving in the resettlement areas each month, Hancock writes, “Their prospects for supporting themselves are virtually zero and, in addition, more than 200,000 are estimated to have contracted a particularly virulent strain of malaria . . . to which they have no resistance.” Even the World Bank has acknowledged that the program has been “an ecological, human and economic disaster of tremendous dimensions.”

Very similar has been the Bank-funded resettlement program in Indonesia: the destruction of millions of acres of rain-forest, bloody and savage fighting between ethnic tribes, and the death of 150,000 indigenous Timorese who opposed having their land used as a resettlement area for Javanese.

Hancock’s conclusion is that the aid programs are so corrupt they are “utterly beyond reform” and should be abolished.''

http://blog.libertarian....08/06/lords-of-poverty/

''“This is how the game works: public money levied in taxes from the poor of the rich countries is transferred in the form of ‘foreign aid’ to the rich in the poor countries; the rich in the poor countries then hand it back for safe-keeping to the rich in the rich countries. The real trick, throughout this cycle of expropriation, is to maintain the pretence that it is the poor in poor countries who are being helped all along. The winner is the player who manages to keep a straight face while building up a billion-dollar bank account”

…..

“At $60 billion a year [in 1989]… aid is already quite large enough to do harm. Indeed, as this book has argued at some length, it is often profoundly dangerous to the poor and inimical to their interests: it has financed the creation of monstrous projects that, at vast expense, have devastated the environment and ruined lives; it has supported and legitimised brutal tyrannies; it has facilitated the emergence of fantastical and Byzantine bureaucracies staffed by legions of self-serving hypocrites; it has sapped the initiative, creativity and enterprise of ordinary people and substituted the superficial and irrelevant glitz of imported advice; it has sucked potential entrepreneurs and intellectuals in the developing countries into non-productive administrative activities; it has created a ‘moral tone’ in international affairs that denies the hard task of wealth creation and that substitutes easy handouts for the rigours of self-help; in addition, throughout the Third World, it has allowed the dead grip of imposed officialdom to suppress popular choice and individual freedom.

“Aid has its defenders, not least the highly paid public-relations men and women who spend millions of dollars a year justifying the continued existence of the agencies that employ them. Such professional communicators must reject out of hand the obvious conclusions of this book: that aid is a waste of time and money ,that its results are fundamentally bad, and that — far from being increased — it should be stopped forthwith before more damage is done.

“Whenever such suggestions are made the lobbyists throw up their hands in horror. Despite some regrettable failures, they protect, aid is justified by its successes; despite some glitches and problems, it is essentially something that works; most important of all — the emotional touch, the appeal to the heartstrings — they argue with passion that aid must not be stopped because the poor could not survive without it. The Brandt Commission provided a classic example of this line of thought: ‘For the poorest countries,’ it told us flatly in its final report, ‘aid is essential to survival.’

“Such statements, however, patronise and undervalue the people of the poor countries concerned. They are, in addition, logically indefensible when uttered by those who also want us to believe that ‘aid works’. Through history and pre-history all countries everywhere got by perfectly well without any aid at all. Furthermore, in the 1950s they got by with much less aid than they did, for example, in the 1970s — and were apparently none the worse for the experience. Now, suddenly, at the tail end of almost fifty years of development assistance, we are told that large numbers of these same countries have lost the ability to survive a moment longer unless they continue to receive ever-larger amounts of aid. If this is indeed the case — and if the only measurable impact of all these decades of development has been to turn tenacious survivors into helpless dependents — then it seems to me to be beyond dispute that aid does not work.

“On the other hand, if the statement that ‘aid works’ is true, then presumably the poor should be in a much better shape than they were before they first began to receive it half a century ago. If so, then aid’s job should by now be nearly over and it ought to be possible to begin a gradual withdrawal without hurting anyone.

“Of course, the ugly reality is that most poor people in most poor countries most of the time never receive or even make contact with aid in any tangible shape or form: whether is it present or absent, increased or decreased, are thus issues that are simply irrelevant to the ways in which they conduct their daily lives. After the multi-billion-dollar ‘financial flows’ involved have been shaken through the sieve of over-priced and irrelevant goods that must be bought in the donor countries, filtered again in the deep pockets of hundreds of thousands of foreign experts and aid agency staff, skimmed off by dishonest commission agents, and stolen by corrupt Ministers and Presidents, there is really very little left to go around. This little, furthermore, is then used thoughtlessly, or maliciously, or irresponsibly by those in power — who have no mandate from the poor, who do not consult with them and who are utterly indifferent to their fate. Small wonder, then, that the effects of aid are so often vicious and destructive for the most vulnerable members of human society.”''

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Kausha
#128 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:21:43 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 2/8/2007
Posts: 808
@Wendz we do not suffer from all those complexities you mentioned, we are just simple realists with a fairly decent grasp of real estate investments. Unfortunately because of the visualness of land, people in east africa don't believe there are signficant risks in property investments. Lets not forget the trigger for the global financial crisis or the property disasters in Ireland and Dubai.

Konza city will NEVER be a reality and you can take this to the bank. I find it extremely foolish when some civil servants lie to unsuspecting public that it will cost 2 trilion KES over 10 years to fully implement Konza or Lamu port. Kenya's economy is about 2.5 trillion in size and growing at 5% annually (any hire growth immediately kicks off massive inflation). Assuming the growth trend remains, the economy should be about 4.2 trillion in 10 years time. So therefore what Ndemo is telling us is Konza city will have cost half of Kenya's GDP at the very least when built up in 2022 or the current GDP size. I can only imagine the inflation that would come out of it. The other fallacy that most of us economic students attune to the concept of comparative advantage can already see is that we will never beat China/ India in ICT. The efficiency, scale and economic policies in both countries mean they will beat our Konza in about everything apart from sunshine and fresh air. Our universities are producing comparatively weaker students, we have less domestic consumers so high prices of our products, our supporting factors of production & infrastructure, power/roads/ rail/airport/facilitating authorities (government)/cost of doing business are nowhere near those of China or India so whatever we can produce, china/india can produce at a fraction of the cost. Already land prices in the city and around it have trippled meaning we are already expensive before we even start. Lets fix the enabling factors and then we can take a stab at this Konza story. Even the US for all its advancement can't beat China and India in ICT.

For those who know about the genesis of Silicon valley (watch the movie - Sillicon Valley or read the book) you will know the 3 key drivers of Silicon Valley was 1. Commencement of the computing age driven by the US military research post world war II and into cold war 2. Research in computing by leading universities picking up from military work 3. Presence of very many private equity/ venture capitalists after the stock market boom of late 50s and early 60's. I can not see any of these enabling factors around besides potential of our students. Anyone who has studied outside the country knows our universities are a joke in terms of relevant and applicable research. The cell phone apps and other applications we develop here can be developed by some Shah or Ying in India or China for a fraction.
a4architect.com
#129 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:38:42 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295


February 15, 2012 at 8:30 am

Robert, We have thought about your model but rejected it. It is not for nothing that I have written about our values in this forum. We simply have a weaknesses at managing our resources especially large projects. This is why I needed IFC and possibly a foreign Master Developer in order to deliver the project without the possibility of going to jail.

At the moment I am literally wading through politicians wanting “something” from Konza and promising heaven for me. As you know this does not work with the new dispensation. These promises are more true for Kamiti rather that the heavens. In most cases it is the fellow staff you work with that colude with politicians to create the mess.

As I write a major local developer is in Australia discussing with contractors there to work on their project. Their previous project was over budget. Thanks to local consultants who coluded with the contractors to create the situation. Do not get me wrong. I want our local consultants too to participate in Konza but we must have a tight institutional framework that benefits all. That is why Tatu City hired Capita of UK to help them in Master Build.

Let us spend more time discussing how we inculcate values in our professionalism such that our children may not need the IFCs and foreigners to run their firms.

Have a moral day.
http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295

AAK has mechanisms to prevent Local Consultants from malpractice. Using local consultants as opposed to Worldbank/IFC/IMF/international Architects,town planners consultancies will result to project execution issues as described by Graham Hancock's Lords of Poverty Book.

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

http://blog.libertarian....08/06/lords-of-poverty/

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
jamplu
#130 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:20:19 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai
Kausha wrote:
@Wendz we do not suffer from all those complexities you mentioned, we are just simple realists with a fairly decent grasp of real estate investments. Unfortunately because of the visualness of land, people in east africa don't believe there are signficant risks in property investments. Lets not forget the trigger for the global financial crisis or the property disasters in Ireland and Dubai.

Konza city will NEVER be a reality and you can take this to the bank. I find it extremely foolish when some civil servants lie to unsuspecting public that it will cost 2 trilion KES over 10 years to fully implement Konza or Lamu port. Kenya's economy is about 2.5 trillion in size and growing at 5% annually (any hire growth immediately kicks off massive inflation). Assuming the growth trend remains, the economy should be about 4.2 trillion in 10 years time. So therefore what Ndemo is telling us is Konza city will have cost half of Kenya's GDP at the very least when built up in 2022 or the current GDP size. I can only imagine the inflation that would come out of it. The other fallacy that most of us economic students attune to the concept of comparative advantage can already see is that we will never beat China/ India in ICT. The efficiency, scale and economic policies in both countries mean they will beat our Konza in about everything apart from sunshine and fresh air. Our universities are producing comparatively weaker students, we have less domestic consumers so high prices of our products, our supporting factors of production & infrastructure, power/roads/ rail/airport/facilitating authorities (government)/cost of doing business are nowhere near those of China or India so whatever we can produce, china/india can produce at a fraction of the cost. Already land prices in the city and around it have trippled meaning we are already expensive before we even start. Lets fix the enabling factors and then we can take a stab at this Konza story. Even the US for all its advancement can't beat China and India in ICT.

For those who know about the genesis of Silicon valley (watch the movie - Sillicon Valley or read the book) you will know the 3 key drivers of Silicon Valley was 1. Commencement of the computing age driven by the US military research post world war II and into cold war 2. Research in computing by leading universities picking up from military work 3. Presence of very many private equity/ venture capitalists after the stock market boom of late 50s and early 60's. I can not see any of these enabling factors around besides potential of our students. Anyone who has studied outside the country knows our universities are a joke in terms of relevant and applicable research. The cell phone apps and other applications we develop here can be developed by some Shah or Ying in India or China for a fraction.


@Kausha so are you trying to tell us to stop doing mobile apps because a Shah and Ying can do them in a day or in 30 mins and for half the price?. As much as we don't graduate from Harvard or MIT doesn't mean that we can't come up with great things. We don't need to invent a new SAP system or an iPad to be considered able to do anything in the IT world there are gaps in the local market which the the Shah and Ying cann't attend to and only the kenyan IT specialist can address. FYI we have kenyans in microsoft product development centers/campuses in Redmond and Copenhagen aren't they equally good in IT sector and they still went to school in kenya?? Others are competing for software jobs online in forums like odesk with the same Shahs and are delivering better apps than Ying and Shah.

Getting to where china is is a process so stop comparing the bullet trains and nuclear power plants in china with our 1899 rail network and kindaruma dams whether china or india are 100 years ahead of us is not the issue our issue it to try to uplift the status of this country by building it whatever the approach we use. We don't need a silicon valley its not worth we can have something else instead.

Konza has to happen for the future first because the land around which would have been used to expand the city is already taken unless we want to go the syokimau way and demolish everything in the name of expanding nairobi and have the middle class rioting.

murchr
#131 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:43:54 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
Some of us still live in that colonial mentality that we are inadequate and can do nothing. Skeptic comments here remind me of those days when the plans of Thika road were displayed. Lets wait and see.
"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
.
guru267
#132 Posted : Wednesday, February 29, 2012 9:19:45 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 1/21/2010
Posts: 6,675
Location: Nairobi
Who still doesnt believe Konza will be a success¿¿¡ Take a look at the article below...

www.businessdailyafrica....54/-/qyfhwq/-/index.html
Mark 12:29
Deuteronomy 4:16
murchr
#133 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 4:01:24 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/26/2012
Posts: 15,980
February 28, 2012 at 11:29 am
Listers, I am in Barcelona for the GSM World congress. I have never attended this congress before but this year I was requested to give three speeches touching on the infrastructure innovations that we have achieved in Kenya. Yesterday I spoke at one of the functions dedicated to freeing up Broadband from Broadcast to Mobile Broadband through Digital migration in other words known as Digital Dividends.

The 700 and 800 Mgz band is in big demand for LTE roll out but in most countries including Kenya the band is occupied by broadcasters. Considering that some countries have made broadband a human right issue, it is urgent now that these bands are freed up for broadband. It is cheaper to deploy a new network using these bands and if everybody adopted them, due to economies of scale equipment cost will be lower and thus lower prices to majority of people who will need broadband in the days to come.

I am writing not because of broadband but because I was bothered all night that we are not seeing the broader picture of Konza Technology City. This is after a dinner with an old friend of mine from college now an economist and professor at University of Murcia here in Spain. I asked him many questions with respect to the thinking behind Fira de Barcelona, the venue of the congress.

For a start, Fira de Barcelona is a trade fair ground and organizer that was officially constituted in 1932 in Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain. It is publicly owned company with autonomous management, organizing more than 80 trade shows, bringing together 40,000 companies and receiving three and a half million visitors (this is close to four times the number of tourists we get in Kenya).

Fira de Barcelona has 365,000 m2 of exhibition floor space, one of the largest areas in Europe, divided into two exhibition centers, the initial one at Montjuïc (165,000m2 of exhibition floor space, 50,000 outdoor) and the new one at the Gran Via business district, opened in 2007 close to Hospitalet de Llobregat (200,000m2 exhibition floor space). It covers an area of about 100 acres. By contrast the Konza Convention Center will create about 50,000 m2 spaces and cover less than 20 acres.

In 1932 when Spain was is worse state of economy than we are now, these people had a dream that brings close to $10 billion or one third of our economy annually. Hotel occupancy is in the upwards of 90% throughout the year with practically every brand located here. The Hospitality Industry is busy throughout the year. From car hire to hotels that are offering local dishes. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT FOR US TO THINK THIS WAY IN THE 21st CENTURTY¬?

By my estimate we shall achieve vision 2030 by 2020 if we stop corruption, elect good leaders, avoid self pity, plan the family (no more than 3 kids) and build confidence in ourselves. In corruption we have new breeds in town fronting Europeans to give a sense morality in any transaction (I know it is risky for me to write this but it has to be said). In Goldenberg there was Kettering. In Anglo Leasing there were Greek Cypriots. Such happens in the lead up to past elections and we are seeing aggressive approaches to create other mountains.

I do not think someone else will come to our aid especially in strategic thinking. Today Giant companies are knocking our doors to do research here. It is imperative that we create the necessary ecosystem for knowledge to thrive. It is knowledge that will give rise to what we desire in vision 2030. That is why we need standards, we need Konza, we need broadband throughout the country and above all we need people to take responsibility for the vision. One cannot give birth to 15 children and blame the Government for not delivering the vision.

Konza is simply a concept for us all to see it through. We must concentrate on understanding the concept so that it is not owned by just a few. I do not know where I shall be next year but I will be gratified to know that such concept is carried forward by those who sought to understand it and bear the responsibility of seeing it through.

Ndemo.

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"There are only two emotions in the market, hope & fear. The problem is you hope when you should fear & fear when you should hope: - Jesse Livermore
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Robinhood
#134 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 6:56:13 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 2,306
Mr. Bitange? Kudos for the vision and taking time to answer the critics. How I with other parts of government would take time to engage critics in such discussions!
Great men are not always wise, neither do the aged understand judgement...
a4architect.com
#135 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:14:52 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
[quote=murchr]February 28, 2012 at 11:29 am
Listers, I am in Barcelona for the GSM World congress. I have never attended this congress before but this year I was requested to give three speeches touching on the infrastructure innovations that we have achieved in Kenya. Yesterday I spoke at one of the functions dedicated to freeing up Broadband from Broadcast to Mobile Broadband through Digital migration in other words known as Digital Dividends.

The 700 and 800 Mgz band is in big demand for LTE roll out but in most countries including Kenya the band is occupied by broadcasters. Considering that some countries have made broadband a human right issue, it is urgent now that these bands are freed up for broadband. It is cheaper to deploy a new network using these bands and if everybody adopted them, due to economies of scale equipment cost will be lower and thus lower prices to majority of people who will need broadband in the days to come.

I am writing not because of broadband but because I was bothered all night that we are not seeing the broader picture of Konza Technology City. This is after a dinner with an old friend of mine from college now an economist and professor at University of Murcia here in Spain. I asked him many questions with respect to the thinking behind Fira de Barcelona, the venue of the congress.

For a start, Fira de Barcelona is a trade fair ground and organizer that was officially constituted in 1932 in Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain. It is publicly owned company with autonomous management, organizing more than 80 trade shows, bringing together 40,000 companies and receiving three and a half million visitors (this is close to four times the number of tourists we get in Kenya).

Fira de Barcelona has 365,000 m2 of exhibition floor space, one of the largest areas in Europe, divided into two exhibition centers, the initial one at Montjuïc (165,000m2 of exhibition floor space, 50,000 outdoor) and the new one at the Gran Via business district, opened in 2007 close to Hospitalet de Llobregat (200,000m2 exhibition floor space). It covers an area of about 100 acres. By contrast the Konza Convention Center will create about 50,000 m2 spaces and cover less than 20 acres.

In 1932 when Spain was is worse state of economy than we are now, these people had a dream that brings close to $10 billion or one third of our economy annually. Hotel occupancy is in the upwards of 90% throughout the year with practically every brand located here. The Hospitality Industry is busy throughout the year. From car hire to hotels that are offering local dishes. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT FOR US TO THINK THIS WAY IN THE 21st CENTURTY¬?

By my estimate we shall achieve vision 2030 by 2020 if we stop corruption, elect good leaders, avoid self pity, plan the family (no more than 3 kids) and build confidence in ourselves. In corruption we have new breeds in town fronting Europeans to give a sense morality in any transaction (I know it is risky for me to write this but it has to be said). In Goldenberg there was Kettering. In Anglo Leasing there were Greek Cypriots. Such happens in the lead up to past elections and we are seeing aggressive approaches to create other mountains.

I do not think someone else will come to our aid especially in strategic thinking. Today Giant companies are knocking our doors to do research here. It is imperative that we create the necessary ecosystem for knowledge to thrive. It is knowledge that will give rise to what we desire in vision 2030. That is why we need standards, we need Konza, we need broadband throughout the country and above all we need people to take responsibility for the vision. One cannot give birth to 15 children and blame the Government for not delivering the vision.


Konza is simply a concept for us all to see it through. We must concentrate on understanding the concept so that it is not owned by just a few. I do not know where I shall be next year but I will be gratified to know that such concept is carried forward by those who sought to understand it and bear the responsibility of seeing it through.

Ndemo.

_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list from http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626[/quote]

Thanks for informing us that no one else will come to our aid in terms of strategic thinking.

What was the rationale behind relying on Worldbank/IFC and overseas architects/master-planners in the Konza city strategic thinking?
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
jamplu
#136 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:28:57 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 3/25/2010
Posts: 939
Location: Nai


totally agree with Ndemo! we tend not to see the big picture and i believe that's one thing that drags this country behind the majority of us plan for the short-term we don't plan 20 years or for the generation behind us. We concentrate on our problems and shortcomings and waste a lot of time negatively critiquing those doing something other than supporting their initiative. Its time we shifted our mindset.


a4architect.com
#137 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 7:33:21 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
See comments here below on ICT BOard not being aware of the Physical Planning act regulations:

I still insist that ICT BOard will ned to work with other Ministries that have real estate expertise to ensure smooth running. I also insist that use of Kenyan consultancies in terms of Financial advisory and Architecture/Master planning will resolve these hiccups.

Even Construction industry students know the basic Physical Planning act requirements...

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626


February 27, 2012 at 6:37 pm

Edith, We have been pushed back by at least two months. We were not aware that the Physical Planning Act required publication of intent to replan the entire zone. It will also give protection to Konza. The first advert was done a week ago. We need to have stakeholder consultation once more and a final advert to avoid being sued. We must follow the law to the letter. We shall be there since all other requirements have been taken care of.

Ndemo.’

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As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#138 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:00:19 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
In my view, those offering Mr. Ndemo high fives and kudos are the problem.

Questioning does not make one a naysayer. In fact in my humble view, I rather love my friends who tell me no than the ones who are licking my butt telling me everything is ok.

Well, everything is not ok. Even Dr. Ndemo admitted it. Only when we push and question can we make this Konza thing come to fruition.

Everything that was discussed here on this post as possible problems has been admitted to. To the point where they had to meet to discuss issues raised.

Yet, we are called the problem?

No amount of veiled comments to the point of being called unpatriotic will make some of us shut up. We shall question, poke and annoy until they get it right. The days of serekali ni baba na mama are over so get used to it.

It is my dream to see a Konza.

But that in no way makes me want to keep quiet when I see glaring institutional and infrastructural problems. Only when we learn to seek only the BEST from our tax shillings shall we move on from the mediocricity that even Ndemo admits exists in nearly all arms of gov't.

If this thing is to help Kenyans, on a serious note where are the Kenyan professionals? Or are they only to be found in the ICT board? When I heard Indians being touted as some of the biggest investors in this project, I wanted to puke. After all I outsource to Indians.

It is rather silly to say that one is colonized because of pointing out errors. Yet this very project is depending on dollars to come from international companies. So who's colonized now?



Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
mkeiy
#139 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:15:08 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
[quote=mkeiy][quote=a4architect.com]



South Korea's Samsung is the world's biggest IT maker. See here for details.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Electronics

http://semimd.com/blog/2...ram-market-share-in-q3/

The highest probability is that the comp me and you are suing to communicate in Wazua have their DRAM from South Korea.

The company that is the leader of Online presence/advert in Kenya/East Africa, Nation media group has a factory in Mlolongo.

The company that is the leader of telephony/money transfer in Kenya/East Africa ,Safaricom has its Customer care offices in Mlolongo.

Nairobi City also started with low rise buildings along River road,Kijabe street.These have grown into the marvelous skyscrapers we see in CBD e.g Times Tower.


I find it contradictory for you to quote Samsung [S.Korea] to support your idea. Dig into the history of the Korea Inc, and it will teach you a thing or two about gov't, third world economy and accelerated economic development. Go to the days just after the Korean war,when the communists made a u-turn in the midlands ,around Daegu.Park Chung Hee, a military ruler, a people's dictator i would say,after the kicking out the weakling that Syngnam was, Park Chung transformed the economy and the country as well. Trees were planted everywhere, people cleaned their neighborhoods. Economically, thru' his word, the gov't funded the founding men of Samsung, Daewoo, Lakhui & Goldastar[later LG], Hyundai etc. Those companies ran like parastatals in private hands. The gov't banned importation of anything made by these companies later turned into Chaebol. The gov't gave them land for expansion, they had long tax breaks, Koreans were made to consume "local", every penny they needed, the gov't availed it. You went against the people's dictator and you were 'taken away'.
And so did Samsung[Korea] grow.

To be what you are quoting for me, Hyundai became the world's no. 1 ship-builder. Samsung became a great builder,they did Khalifa,Petronas towers, taipei 101,Joyland etc.

Assuming you were in Korea in the days of Park Chung, and you had your way,do you think Samsung/Hyundai/LG would be the greats they are? If YES,how?! What you say?
a4architect.com
#140 Posted : Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:19:11 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@alma..^^^^...good points.
Lets all keep our patriotism alive by encouraging debate that will help to shape the course of realising Konza city.

Arguments given here

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626

show that debate is necessary to assist the ICT Board to choose the best ideas going forward.They have a good vision and intent for the country but a few rough edges need to be looked at to make maximum utility to our hard-earned tax payer money...

An argument such as this below

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626


February 26, 2012 at 4:03 pm

Treasury could not fund the project because the incentives were not spelt out in the Finance Bill. We were to incentify organizations that moved their businesses to Kenya. All they needed was to cover their migration by footing a six month rent. We had practically secured about 6,000 seats out of India.

Some of the larger enterprises keen on Kenya are still looking for accomodation. They have given Sameer Park what they want and if the modifications are done, they would move in. Even us we were under the assumption that every building that comes up adheres to the Building code. This does not happen.

They do not take security of the wokers seriously. You have seen how the fire Brigade struggles to get water to the fire incidences. Mordern cities have fire hydrants on every access road. They have fire detectors, fire sprinklers in every floor and above all sufficient number of toilets.

We still assume that some of us would use the fast disappearing bush to answer calls of nature. The state in Nairobi is pathetic. I see it in Telcom Towers wher sometimes people literally queue to use the toilet. We have forgotten that when the International Life Houese cought fire in its 9th floor, people were rescued by helicopters as it lacked alternative fire escape. Most International organizations have since left the building. We must embrace International Standards if we have to be competitive. Since all these requirements are in the Building Codes, we need better enforcement. Not just the Government, we all must demand that these codes are followed. We simply take too many risks.

Enough for now.

Ndemo.

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And this below:

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6626


February 27, 2012 at 6:37 pm

Edith, We have been pushed back by at least two months. We were not aware that the Physical Planning Act required publication of intent to replan the entire zone. It will also give protection to Konza. The first advert was done a week ago. We need to have stakeholder consultation once more and a final advert to avoid being sued. We must follow the law to the letter. We shall be there since all other requirements have been taken care of.

Ndemo.’

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Both of these issues raised could easily have been solved through a request for solutions here in Wazua pro bono.

It takes a maximum of 7 days for an architect/engineer to design a steel fire escape and manage the construction to completion for the Sammer business park.

It takes less than 5 minutes for an architect/town planner to point out all procedures needed to fulfill the Physical Planning act for the Konza city issue.
ICT Board will be in for more surprises if they continue working without Kenyan consultants.

Experts in Finance/Economy/Law/Procurement/Politics would also take similar short time here in Wazua to point out to the ICT Board on what is needed.
Am sure in their patriotism,they will give this info for free here in Wazua.

The ICT Board continued reliance on Worldbank/IFC and overseas architects/master planners at the expense of Kenyans tax payers can/should be reduced.

If Wazuans can provide most of this info for free, why use tax payers money for the same?

These consultancies don't come cheap, especially if its from Worldbank/IFC to a poor African Nation as Graham Hancock has duly explained in his book here

http://www.thefreemanonl...ness-by-graham-hancock/

http://blog.libertarian....08/06/lords-of-poverty/
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
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