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Konza city Reality.
mkeiy
#101 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:39:04 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
@murchr..the issue is why the Govt is using tax payers money close to KES 800m to acquire the 5000 acre land. This money should go into providing basic utilities such as fibre optic cable,electricity e.t.c
The project can still be realized without Govt buying the land-all govt needs to do is zone the area as a city.

In the Indian Silicon valley, they bought only 335 acres of land
http://en.wikipedia.org/...Silicon_Valley_of_India
'History

The Electronics City was the brainchild of R K Baliga. He was the first Chairman and Managing Director of Karnataka State Electronics Development Corporation (in 1976 the government agency was created to expand the electronics industry in the state of Karnataka). Baliga proposed the concept of developing the electronic city in the 1970s. The agency purchased 335 acres (1.36 km2) of land 18 km south of Bangalore for its Electronics City project, which was meant to establish an industrial park in Bangalore. '


How would the gov't zone the land to its desired layout if it doesn't have control over it? Its private ranch and i think there would be legal battles which could be more expensive, time wise, than the cash used to buy the land. Why work with ceramic when can have china clay and mold the desired ceramic? WHY?
a4architect.com
#102 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:23:14 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ mkeiy...Govt thru Ministry of Local Authorities Bye Laws and Urban Areas and Cities Bill/Law controls all land usage within the jurisdiction of kenya.
http://www.a4architect.c...s-and-cities-bill-2011/
Once Govt. ascertains than a particular land use is of benefit to the people of Kenya, it then introduces/enforces a Bye law and now there is even a further law to endure this-Urban Areas and Cities Bill.
Also, there is the Compulsory Land Acquisition Act when push comes to shove e.g during new Roads construction.
http://www.kenyalaw.org/...erm2=Land%20Acquisition

For Example, in Upper Hill/CBD, you cannot construct any low density development even if you own the land. In industrial area, you can only construct an industry-related building . In Muthaiga, you can only construct single dwelling residential within a 0.5 acre land unless you apply for a change of user giving very good reasons as to why you want to deviate.
This way, Govt controls all land uses and plot sizes.

The original Konza ranch owners, 600 people each owning around 8 acres sold the land at KES 200K per acre. The land has increased 5-fold by now. If the demand-supply markets were left to play to each other, the amount of land available for sale would have been in over-supply hence the price would not have increased this much.The original owners will be the biggest beneficiaries since they can now sell their land at a higher price than the 200k pr acre.
See current sale prices here
http://countrywidegeoinf...for-sale/64-malili.html

http://josekinyaga.co.ke...iew=property&id=121
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
selah
#103 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:25:00 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
If I was In charge of the Konza city implementation committee This is what I would have done.

Encourage by offerig incentives to UoN,strathmore,Egerton and JKUAT to set up technological campuses in Konza this will attract private developers(housing) and other businesses(cafeterias,shops,malls) to cater for the students ,lecturers and visitors.

Once these campuses are established with basic amenities in place its easy for big Businesses to set up base.The easily available cheap labour and housing will make the place conducive for business.

Another way of doing it is attracting big player like safaricom & Airtel's spanco to set up their BPOs in Konza,we have also very successful biotech companies like universal & GlaxoSmithKline that employ thousands of employees, these companies can boost Konza rapid growth.

Kenyans have the capacity to make Konza a reality all that is needed is collaboration and the right incentives.All we are seeing is how Konza is going to be with little to show on how its going to get there.

Take Isiolo for instance the confusion on the ground has fueled animosity among communities.The blueprint is not public, so speculators are taking advantage and fuelling a land scrabble that is turning to be a nightmare for the locals.

The same thing seems to be happening in Konza just last week the Government had to issue a 10km warning to developers how many kenyans will loose cash from speculators who are probably selling Konza with allotment letters.




'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
a4architect.com
#104 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:56:03 AM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
http://www.casepolicy.org/?p=285
''The construction of the technopolis is hinged on a model where the government offers land, legal backing, and architectural plans to investors to build business process outsourcing (BPO) ventures, a science park, shopping malls, hotels, international schools and health facilities.

Dr Ndemo has stepped up the search for investors in time for ground breaking in August, arguing that Parliament and the Cabinet recognise the existence of special economic zones.''
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
mkeiy
#105 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:56:27 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
@ mkeiy...Govt thru Ministry of Local Authorities Bye Laws and Urban Areas and Cities Bill/Law controls all land usage within the jurisdiction of kenya.
http://www.a4architect.c...s-and-cities-bill-2011/
Once Govt. ascertains than a particular land use is of benefit to the people of Kenya, it then introduces/enforces a Bye law and now there is even a further law to endure this-Urban Areas and Cities Bill.
Also, there is the Compulsory Land Acquisition Act when push comes to shove e.g during new Roads construction.
http://www.kenyalaw.org/...erm2=Land%20Acquisition

For Example, in Upper Hill/CBD, you cannot construct any low density development even if you own the land. In industrial area, you can only construct an industry-related building . In Muthaiga, you can only construct single dwelling residential within a 0.5 acre land unless you apply for a change of user giving very good reasons as to why you want to deviate.
This way, Govt controls all land uses and plot sizes.

You are talking of Nairobi, a CITY. Konza is some ranch, open land. No roads, no sewer, no public utilities land. Nairobi has roads, you can say from road A to road B, all that land is residential,etc,etc. In a ranch, how do you do that? Compulsory acquisition and outright buying, which is better coz at the end of it all, a price is paid. How as a gov't, do you zone Konza? A private land. DON'T mention Nairobi,i know.
alma
#106 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:06:03 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
selah wrote:


The same thing seems to be happening in Konza just last week the Government had to issue a 10km warning to developers how many kenyans will loose cash from speculators who are probably selling Konza with allotment letters.






Just wait until they start allocating the plots in Konza. Who will the gov't sell to the space right in the middle of the city? Why don't they want competitive bidding as is the law according to the AG?

Who said that the next gov't PS will want to go on with the plan as is? What happens if 3 years from now the expected investors find another country to go to? What if there is another tech bubble? Heck, what if Kenyans fight again? Hizi ni swali nyeti.

Can you explain in plain words without gov't speak how you are going to make Apple move from China where electricity is cheaper and ever present and the populace is well educated, to Konza where the exact opposite is true?

I have more questions as an investor but I think these are enough to get anyone thinking and moving Konza or any such project in the right direction.


We have a habit in Kenya of coming up with slogans such as Vision 2030, kazi kwa vijana etc without ever considering the challenges we face RIGHT NOW. Only when we accept the challenges can we deal with them. I dare anyone in ICT to take a walk to Rwanda and Egypt.


Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
a4architect.com
#107 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:22:55 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ Selah..good points. The best way to kickstart Konza city is by attracting universities for the human capital. The area is best situated for expansion of Nairobi City coz of proximity to Mombasa road/railway/airport/cheap vacant land.
Another way is to use most resources to lay city infrastructure e.g elec,roads, fibre optic e.t.c.
Kenyan ICT talent is abundant, judging from the numerous ICT startups especially in the money transfer field.
My only issue with the ICT Board was on why they had to spend 1 B on land instead on infrastructure.But after seeing the budget that they have,120 million USD, i understand that money is not a limitation in executing this project.
See a similar heated debate here where Dr. Bitange Ndemo himself has replied to comments
http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295

http://www.google.co.ke/...bjs7l57LufGsnjvCecwOrGFw
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#108 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:34:45 AM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
mkeiy wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:
@ mkeiy...Govt thru Ministry of Local Authorities Bye Laws and Urban Areas and Cities Bill/Law controls all land usage within the jurisdiction of kenya.
http://www.a4architect.c...s-and-cities-bill-2011/
Once Govt. ascertains than a particular land use is of benefit to the people of Kenya, it then introduces/enforces a Bye law and now there is even a further law to endure this-Urban Areas and Cities Bill.
Also, there is the Compulsory Land Acquisition Act when push comes to shove e.g during new Roads construction.
http://www.kenyalaw.org/...erm2=Land%20Acquisition

For Example, in Upper Hill/CBD, you cannot construct any low density development even if you own the land. In industrial area, you can only construct an industry-related building . In Muthaiga, you can only construct single dwelling residential within a 0.5 acre land unless you apply for a change of user giving very good reasons as to why you want to deviate.
This way, Govt controls all land uses and plot sizes.

You are talking of Nairobi, a CITY. Konza is some ranch, open land. No roads, no sewer, no public utilities land. Nairobi has roads, you can say from road A to road B, all that land is residential,etc,etc. In a ranch, how do you do that? Compulsory acquisition and outright buying, which is better coz at the end of it all, a price is paid. How as a gov't, do you zone Konza? A private land. DON'T mention Nairobi,i know.


@mkeiy..these Laws apply to all land in the Kenyan republic.
1.Local Authority Bylwas
2. Urban Areas and Cities.
http://www.a4architect.c...s-and-cities-bill-2011/

In a ranch that has 600 people with title deeds to 8 acre pieces of land, all Govt needs to do is set a minimum land size e.g 1 to 5 acres for subdivision.
While subdividing, the Local Authority will then set a minimum size of road width for subdivision approval-say 15 m wide which is ok for a city.
The Local Authority planners will then use some rationale e.g land near Msa road should be commercial, land further away, residential e.t.c to come up with a bye law that will regulate the zoning. These bye laws usually have peoples interest at heart represented by their councilors during the meetings.
Last week, Govt advertised in the papers for the Konza city zoning plan gazetement so they are already in the final details of this.

There is no need for compulsory acquisition act in Konza since there are no existing buildings-its a vast grassland.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
Lolest!
#109 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:37:04 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
This discussion has changed.

@a4archtect, are you now OK with Konza so long as GoK doesn't buy the land?

If yes, what do you think will be the incentive for firms to move there? Who will provide services(roads, sewer, street lighting etc)? Is it the Machakos County Govt?

Please remember that under the new law, county govts which are more autonomous than the local authorities we knew, will be in charge of provision of planning and provision of basic infrastructure in their areas.

I doubt the central govt would want to entrust such a project to a county govt which will have a lot of other commitments. Also, they are unlikely to have the expertise needed for such a project!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
Lolest!
#110 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:47:54 AM
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Joined: 3/18/2011
Posts: 12,069
Location: Kianjokoma
a4architect.com wrote:


There is no need for compulsory acquisition act in Konza since there are no existing buildings-its a vast grassland.

What would make existing land owners want to sell the land soon instead of doing it how most of us would do it-wait for investors to come and then sell it to them at 5-6 times the price I would sell today?

This approach would definitely slow down the project!
Laughing out loudly smile Applause d'oh! Sad Drool Liar Shame on you Pray
a4architect.com
#111 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:11:11 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ Laughing out loudly..GoK has already bought the land. My issue was with Budget. After seeing that they are well funded by the exchequer[USD 120 million], they can then remain with a considerable amount of money to support ICT related infrastructure. In a country where money is not abundant, its important to invest in the most efficient way possible.
The incentive for firms to move there is when universities build their ICT campuses to provide the much needed human capital.
Ideally, Govt through ministry of roads[roads,, ministry of local govt [street light,sewer] should provide infrastructure.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#112 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:20:52 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
Lolest! wrote:
a4architect.com wrote:


There is no need for compulsory acquisition act in Konza since there are no existing buildings-its a vast grassland.

What would make existing land owners want to sell the land soon instead of doing it how most of us would do it-wait for investors to come and then sell it to them at 5-6 times the price I would sell today?

This approach would definitely slow down the project!


In a free market, there is always someone wanting to sell their land for a particular reason-fees,hospital bill e.t.c
In a controlled market, the demand-supply relationship is skewed .
As we speak, 3 different land owners in Konza area, each with over 10,000 acres have approached me for sourcing for Joint Venture/buyer of part of their land. In their 10,000 acres land, the price has remained the same over the last 1 year as compared to land around Konza epicentre. This is because the forces of a free market demand-supply are in play.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#113 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:25:09 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
I have read here on the ICT Board rationale for buying the land

http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295

Dr Ndemo has also explained why he needed Worldbank/IFC and foreign architects/planners for the technical support.

''We simply have a weaknesses at managing our resources especially large projects.''
http://www.kictanet.or.ke/?p=6295
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
alma
#114 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:44:37 PM
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Joined: 7/20/2007
Posts: 4,432
Thanks a4architect for giving us those links. I find them extremely interesting to say the least.

Here is a gov't official in public pointing out that there are major problems with the current institutional frameworks in Kenya. So is the solution to go create a new city? Or is it to deal with the institutional failures that I'm 100% sure are going to follow to Konza.

I'm finding it scary to imagine that this project seems to come out from one official in gov't. Now that he's accepted in public that Konza is a political hot potato (he's been promised heaven), what happens to the project when they inevitably remove him if he continues fighting for it as he is.

I find myself looking at Ndemo and supporting him 100% in his Konza vision. Actually I think the only way for his vision to work is if he ran and I will support such a leader 100%.

But I have seen how Kenyans work. So forgive me if I don't hold my breathe as one guy said in the post, as Konza follows in the ways of Buruburu. Now more than ever I see it as a real estate project dressed up in ICT by those pretending that Kenya is a major factor in ICT Development.

I'm now waiting for Anyang Nyongo to set up a Health City somewhere in Bondo with taxpayers money as Kenyans have the best doctors in the world. Then Njeru Githae setting up an Accountants and lawyers metropolis somewhere in Meru.
Jose: If I make it through this thug life, I'll see you one day. The Lord is the only way to stop the hurt.
selah
#115 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:11:49 PM
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Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
Looking at todays advert in The Standard Metropolitan Ps is decrying the little interest exhibited by local investors in the project.

60% of the initial 500 acres has attracted foreign firms and individuals.

The government is yet to establish an authority that will be in charge of the Tech city.The authority will manage konza including issuing land leases to investors.

With a funding Gap of $44billion the government want to use public private partnership(ppp) to bridge that infrastructural gap.

The state has mooted plans to transform EPZs into special economic zones in the technopolis in a bill yet to be presented in parliament.

The proposed incentives include ten year corporate tax holiday,withholding tax holiday,excise duty and VAT exemption and repatriation of profits.

The city requires Sh.2trillion in the next 20yrs to complete the city the government has pieced together SH.800Million for the project.

'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
a4architect.com
#116 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:13:00 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@ Alma..welcome.

Such debates between Govt and tis citizens should be encouraged so as we can all be enlightened and exchange ideas on how best we can realize such great concepts such as Konza city.

Am in the business of creating real estate 'hype' for the benefit of land owners who gain when land value increases. e.g this

http://www.a4architect.c...signed-to-become-green/




When i see the same 'hype' created on land that Govt has bought with tax payers money[mine and yours], i can easily see a 100 % perfect real estate project of which i can learn new real estate marketing ideas from.

Ministries should stick to their main core business and learn to cooperate. E.g Ministry of Lands/Housing/Local Govt/Nairobi Metropolitan can easily handle land matters since they have surveyors, planners, land planning & allocation systems e.t.c

These can assist Ministry of Information in matters concerning land to ensure harmony.

This will prevent situations that @alma has stated above where Ministry of Health will seek to execute a Health city in Bondo and Ministry of Finance a Finance/Lawyer city in Meru.

Kenyans should also encourage debate amongst themselves and Govt. Ministries which work collectively on behalf for the Kenyan tax payers so that these ministries can use the debates so as to always strive to utilize tax payers money efficiently as per Kenyan Law and within their jurisdictions.

Over-reliance on World bank /IFC consultancies/International Architects/Planners on the Konza City should be discouraged.


All is not lost though for an ICT city in Konza. If Dr Ndemo listens to the ideas given here pro bono by Wazuans, the concept can develop into an ICT city easily.

I hope Architectural Association of Kenya will also come into this and 'liberate' Kenyans from the mentality that only some overseas architects and planners can come up with marvelous concepts.AAK needs to prove to the ICT board that their members can also plan a city.

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
a4architect.com
#117 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:24:04 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
@selah.. thanks for your informative post.

Anyone here who can clarify if all the 800m input by the Govt will not go to land purchase?

As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
selah
#118 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 2:59:49 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
a4architect.com wrote:
@selah.. thanks for your informative post.

Anyone here who can clarify if all the 800m input by the Govt will not go to land purchase?



The advert just shows how this project is not well thought out.

For instance,the Govt estimates the cost of putting up Konza city to be Sh.2Trillion in the next 20yrs, this means, if am not mistaken,for the city to be complete it needs at least Sh.100Billion each year.

The govt has allocated Sh.800Million so we need investors to fork Sh.99.2B this year alone for the project to be on course....is this realistically feasible.


'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
a4architect.com
#119 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:15:29 PM
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Joined: 1/4/2010
Posts: 1,668
Location: nairobi
..if the Govt can support the crucial ICT parts e.g ICT -related infrastructure as priority, then the City can be realized.

If the Govt prioritizes land purchase and paying international architects/planners first, then there will be too much over reliance on investors.
As Iron Sharpens Iron, So one Man Sharpens Another.
mkeiy
#120 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:48:59 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
a4architect.com wrote:
..if the Govt can support the crucial ICT parts e.g ICT -related infrastructure as priority, then the City can be realized.

If the Govt prioritizes land purchase and paying international architects/planners first, then there will be too much over reliance on investors.


What you say dude? You were complaining of gov't investing, now you are not happy with OVER RELIANCE on investors. You seem to be shifting goals posts.

On zoning,gov't can only mold what it controls. Setting by-laws of how to sub-divide and all, what IF the owners don't want to subdivide? It's only prudent to acquire the land first, then mold it to the desired plan. It is happening now coz the gov't has control over the land.

On infrastructure, South Korea is the most wired country in the world,their internet speeds beat the rest of the world hands down. Even the remotest of ma-ul [village] has high-speed internet connection. If its only internet, then S.Koreans should be the masters of start-ups,[since on this forum, ICT has been taken to be START-UPS only].

Silicon valley happens to do what it does today coz of the environment. An idea is easily funded. Think of facebook coming from a place like Thika, how far would it have gone? Konza city is convergence of the missing elements in the rest of the country,currently. Just coz every school has a football pitch, doesn't mean we have Messis everywhere in Kenya. But if we had a center for football,with all the footballing minds,the skills we have around would be horned to more refined talent. The ICT talents will be horned in Konza,if need be.

With Konza,most of the missing ICT elements will be brought next door. LINKAGE!

Nothing can be done in a vacuum [investing-wise], buildings are part of the equation. If you need school, you build the physical structures first, a church, the same, a prison , the same.

You have also argued that with Konza city or not, a city would have developed over time, along Mombasa road. A city like KITENGELA? MLOLONGO? That's the kind of cities you are talking about? Microsoft with its East and Central Africa offices in MLOLONGO? I give it to you.
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