wazua Mon, Jan 20, 2025
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In | Register

3 Pages123>
Is Safaricom responsible?
GenghisCapitalLtd
#1 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 12:20:14 PM

Rank: Bona-fide


Joined: 11/2/2011
Posts: 191
Location: Nairobi
http://www.businessdaily...8/-/tjjsm9/-/index.html

What an interesting read but I tend to agree with the Governor on this...
Follow us on Twitter @genghiscapital
“Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected.” Steve Jobs,iGenius
MaichBlack
#2 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 2:44:32 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
GenghisCapitalLtd wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/M+Pesa+linked+to+rise+in+inflation/-/539552/1327538/-/tjjsm9/-/index.html

What an interesting read but I tend to agree with the Governor on this...

This is what I classify as bullcrap research!!!

My two year old daughter will tell you that the two primary causes of inflation are increase in the supply of money and/or decrease in the goods available for sale.

M-Pesa doesn't increase the total amount of money in our hands. It just makes it easier to transfer money from one hand to another. How does this cause inflation?

The bulk of money transfered is business - oriented. Will a business spend money on things they had not planned just because they recieved it by M-Pesa?

If you wanted to give your grandmother 5k, you would still have done it even if there was no M-Pesa. M-Pesa just makes it easier to send her the money. Furthermore, the fact that your grandmother now has 5k more to spend means you have 5k less to spend!!!

Armchair researchers!!!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Kihangeri
#3 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:11:16 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
GenghisCapitalLtd wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/M+Pesa+linked+to+rise+in+inflation/-/539552/1327538/-/tjjsm9/-/index.html

What an interesting read but I tend to agree with the Governor on this...



@Genghis...No wonder the capital you manage has been doing so badly.

If you cannot make a simple connection such as "Furthermore, the fact that your grandmother now has 5k more to spend means you have 5k less to spend!!!

Armchair researchers!!! "

The time you end up with Inflation causing money is when the money is generated without being backed by gold, services or commodities available in the market or when paper money is issued. The only other extreme cases include capital flight, money laundering etc.

By the way, do our politicians know the level of inflation late last year in Uganda, Tanzania and other African countries in the league of Kenya economically or they are also armchair economists? Some
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


GenghisCapitalLtd
#4 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:35:07 PM

Rank: Bona-fide


Joined: 11/2/2011
Posts: 191
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
GenghisCapitalLtd wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/M+Pesa+linked+to+rise+in+inflation/-/539552/1327538/-/tjjsm9/-/index.html

What an interesting read but I tend to agree with the Governor on this...

This is what I classify as bullcrap research!!!

My two year old daughter will tell you that the two primary causes of inflation are increase in the supply of money and/or decrease in the goods available for sale.

M-Pesa doesn't increase the total amount of money in our hands. It just makes it easier to transfer money from one hand to another. How does this cause inflation?

The bulk of money transfered is business - oriented. Will a business spend money on things they had not planned just because they recieved it by M-Pesa?

If you wanted to give your grandmother 5k, you would still have done it even if there was no M-Pesa. M-Pesa just makes it easier to send her the money. Furthermore, the fact that your grandmother now has 5k more to spend means you have 5k less to spend!!!

Armchair researchers!!!

MaichBlack isn't it worrying that University Lecturers actually agree with this theory? What does that say about our state of tertiary education?
@Kihangeri I just mentioned that it was an interesting read not that I support the research. As i wrote above I do support the governor who stated that MPESA only increases the frequency and not the supply of money incirculation. My Capital is not doing too bad my friend!!
Follow us on Twitter @genghiscapital
“Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected.” Steve Jobs,iGenius
selah
#5 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:41:13 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
I haven't read the article but it reminds me of a Kiambu police officer who blamed increased carjacking incidents on smooth roads...its as if he wanted the road to be filled with potholes to contain carjacking.

'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
GenghisCapitalLtd
#6 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:43:04 PM

Rank: Bona-fide


Joined: 11/2/2011
Posts: 191
Location: Nairobi
selah wrote:
I haven't read the article but it reminds me of a Kiambu police officer who blamed increased carjacking incidents on smooth roads...its as if he wanted the road to be filled with potholes to contain carjacking.


Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly Laughing out loudly
Follow us on Twitter @genghiscapital
“Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren’t used to an environment where excellence is expected.” Steve Jobs,iGenius
Wakanyugi
#7 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 3:53:03 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
@Maichblack and Kihangeri: Don't be in a hurry to condemn Gengis Khan.

The speed of money can cause temporary inflation, especially in an inefficient market economy like ours. Here is how:

The transaction we call demand and supply is dependent on matching goods/services on the one hand with people’s capacity to consume on the other. The key enabler of consumption (demand) is money. Money usually shows up in our pockets at fairly defined time periods - in Kenya ours is largely an end of month economy. The producers of goods and services have set their systems to match that cycle, and usually can not change the cycle at short notice.

What happens when a system comes a long that can force the money to appear at different time periods?

By increasing the speed at which money transits through the economy, systems like M-pesa can enable large concentrations of money out of phase with economic production - that is at times when the requisite goods are not in market yet, even though the holders of the money have capacity to buy. This leads to a temporary rise in prices.

Back to our inefficient market, the rise in prices is not always followed by a commensurate fall when goods become available, ergo, inflation.

Before you shout rink! let me give you an example instead: the behavior of the price of sugar over the past few years, has not always had a cause in shortages or even speculation. Sugar consumption in Kenya is now virtually an inelastic good, the poor get over 50% of their calories from sugar. It is a candidate for such M-pesa type inflation
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
selah
#8 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:20:11 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 10/13/2009
Posts: 1,950
Location: in kenya
when we have faster processing of transactions I think thats a plus ,developed countries have systems that allow faster especially online.

The inflation we were/are facing was mostly imported inflation where fuel and the import bill was getting out of hand.

To blame inflation on an efficient system is somehow laughable in that when you access your cash in a bank you are not restricted from withdrawing further more ATMs are more efficient than MPesa.
'......to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.' Colossians 2:2-3
MaichBlack
#9 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:25:22 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Wakanyugi wrote:
@Maichblack and Kihangeri: Don't be in a hurry to condemn Gengis Khan.

The speed of money can cause temporary inflation, especially in an inefficient market economy like ours. Here is how:

The transaction we call demand and supply is dependent on matching goods/services on the one hand with people’s capacity to consume on the other. The key enabler of consumption (demand) is money. Money usually shows up in our pockets at fairly defined time periods - in Kenya ours is largely an end of month economy. The producers of goods and services have set their systems to match that cycle, and usually can not change the cycle at short notice.

What happens when a system comes a long that can force the money to appear at different time periods?

By increasing the speed at which money transits through the economy, systems like M-pesa can enable large concentrations of money out of phase with economic production - that is at times when the requisite goods are not in market yet, even though the holders of the money have capacity to buy. This leads to a temporary rise in prices.

Back to our inefficient market, the rise in prices is not always followed by a commensurate fall when goods become available, ergo, inflation.

Before you shout rink! let me give you an example instead: the behavior of the price of sugar over the past few years, has not always had a cause in shortages or even speculation. Sugar consumption in Kenya is now virtually an inelastic good, the poor get over 50% of their calories from sugar. It is a candidate for such M-pesa type inflation

1) I'm not condeming @Gengis Khan. I'm condeming the "researchers". In this case @Gengis Khan was just a messenger. I'm not in the habit of shooting the messenger. Actually, if I'm not mistaken, @Gengis Khan holds an opinion similar to mine.

2) Your argument doesn't make any sense - at least not to me! If I normally get money at the end of the month, how will MPesa make money appear suddenly "out of phase"? Where is the money coming from? The money must come from another individual - not from Safaricom or the technology! Now, is this individual giving me the money because MPesa exists or because we had an agreement [independent of the technology] and we just decided to use MPesa as a medium of transfer?

You must have been a student of one of the lecturers @Gengis Khan is talking about!
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
mkeiy
#10 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:27:23 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/27/2012
Posts: 851
Location: Nairobi
MaichBlack wrote:
GenghisCapitalLtd wrote:
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/M+Pesa+linked+to+rise+in+inflation/-/539552/1327538/-/tjjsm9/-/index.html

What an interesting read but I tend to agree with the Governor on this...

This is what I classify as bullcrap research!!!

My two year old daughter will tell you that the two primary causes of inflation are increase in the supply of money and/or decrease in the goods available for sale.

M-Pesa doesn't increase the total amount of money in our hands. It just makes it easier to transfer money from one hand to another. How does this cause inflation?

The bulk of money transfered is business - oriented. Will a business spend money on things they had not planned just because they recieved it by M-Pesa?

If you wanted to give your grandmother 5k, you would still have done it even if there was no M-Pesa. M-Pesa just makes it easier to send her the money. Furthermore, the fact that your grandmother now has 5k more to spend means you have 5k less to spend!!!

Armchair researchers!!!


To some extend,Mpesa does fuel inflation. It makes money readily available to spend. With the advent of Mpesa,having a phone is almost like having cash with you.The convenience of Mpesa has enabled money transfers [purchases] which otherwise,would not have occurred. .A shilling changing hands a thousand times, is as good as a thousand bob. Hence "increase".
Chaka
#11 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:40:16 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 2/16/2007
Posts: 2,114
I haven't read the article but looks like it assumes that money sent via MPESA is only used to purchase goods,what about school fees,hospital bills etc..
Djinn
#12 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:42:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 11/13/2008
Posts: 1,565
selah wrote:
I haven't read the article but it reminds me of a Kiambu police officer who blamed increased carjacking incidents on smooth roads...its as if he wanted the road to be filled with potholes to contain carjacking.


Applause
MaichBlack
#13 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 4:46:02 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
mkeiy wrote:
To some extend,Mpesa does fuel inflation. It makes money readily available to spend. With the advent of Mpesa,having a phone is almost like having cash with you.The convenience of Mpesa has enabled money transfers [purchases] which otherwise,would not have occurred. .A shilling changing hands a thousand times, is as good as a thousand bob. Hence "increase".

I give up!!! This money you are receiving/"getting from" MPesa is coming from where? Ever heard of zero-sum mathematics/economics? Visit the links below.

Zero Sum

Zero Sum

You guys are reminding of a fellow who walked into a restaurant and bought a pizza. He was asked if it should be cut into four or eight slices. He said "Cut it into four, I'm not that hungry!".
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
VituVingiSana
#14 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 5:29:02 PM
Rank: Chief


Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,129
Location: Nairobi
I am not going to tangle with @MaichBlack... Jamaa is deadly!

"You guys are reminding of a fellow who walked into a restaurant and bought a pizza. He was asked if it should be cut into four or eight slices. He said "Cut it into four, I'm not that hungry!"

The velocity not the quantity of money increases with M-Pesa. It may cause a (temporary) spike in inflation (in isolation) but that is coz of inefficiencies of the old transfer system. The 'temporary' inflation may be mitigated by the further efficiencies. So all in all... the overall cost/inflation should be LOWER.

Example:

A rural duka stocks wheat flour which the cucu buys after she receives money from her grandkids in Nairobi. This cash is received on the 5th (coz the grandkids gets paid on 30th) & would send it by bus/courier/relatives. The cost is quite high to send the cash. The duka can also squeeze the cucu by increasing prices. Cucu doesn't want to keep cash under her bed.

M-Pesa allows the grandkids to send cash weekly (1/4 the amount) at a relatively lower cost to Cucu. She need not buy the unga at one go. The dukawalla might find it prudent to sell it to cucu anytime during the month. He doesn't have the same control. Why would he keep stocks until th end of month if he can sell it & turnover the inventory?

Many rural dukas give goods on credit (until the chapaa is sent to Cucu) so being paid sooner (maybe even directly by grandkids) means he can survive with less Working Capital.

Bottomline: The inflation we saw was less about M-Pesa than weak KES = higher fuel prices = higher transport costs = higher prices of goods.

Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
QW25091985
#15 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 5:32:38 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 1,675
Location: In Da Hood
lol. Maich where have you been !
Wakanyugi
#16 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 7:36:44 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 7/3/2007
Posts: 1,634
"You must have been a student of one of the lecturers @Gengis Khan is talking about!"

@Maichblack; let me try one more time, slowly this time.

You might recall your Economics teacher talking about the multiplier function of money. Namely the value of money is not limited to what it can buy in a single transaction but how much it circulates in an economy within a set time period. The faster the circulation, the higher the multiplier. M-pesa enables money to circulate much faster in an economy than traditional means of money movement. We agree?

The multiplier function works both ways, it generates economic value but can also generate inflation if there are few or no goods to buy.

Are we together so far?

M-pesa does not create new money, on that you are right. What it does create is money that changes hands many more times as it moves through an economy much faster than normal. If the economy is not flexible enough to produce goods/services at the same pace inflation occurs.

There is a simple solution to this, at least for Kenya's economy. Adopt a bi-monthly pay system as in some Western countries. This will force force flexibility into the economy - by changing production cycles from the end month oriented system we have now - essentially increasing the general movement of money in the economy so that M-pesa like effects will not have much impact.

If you can't understand this, I give up.
"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." (Niels Bohr)
Drunkard
#17 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 8:05:49 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@ Wakanyugi and the research is right, I believe the Governor and the rest of the people do not really understand the economics of money and velocity.

Wakanyugi, good job explaining this a clear as possible, I am with you on this, I guess people are used to pointing at oil prices and appreciation of the dollar, these are textbook answers that you'd expect but in reality short turn inflation can be cause by the movement of supply of money long the curve. The velocity of money does not cause a shift but it does cause a movement along the curve and thats is where short turn inflation can be attributed to. What some reader and the governor seem to only look at is the shift which is cause by increase in supply of money but what mr Wakanyugi has clearly recognize and articulate is that movement along the curve which do cause short term inflation. Wakanyugi for Governor!

Unless changes are made to accommodate the short term movement along the curve, the movement will persist and will lead to temporary shift, that temporary shift caused by persistant movement along the curve has the same implication as an increase in quantity of money. Reform Kenyan Education!

Lastly, do anyone care what Kihangeri's opinion is, this guy is an idiot!
muganda
#18 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 9:42:58 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/15/2006
Posts: 3,905
Equation of exchange:
MV = PQ

where

M is the nominal quantity of money.
V is the velocity of money in final expenditures;
P is the general price level;
Q is an index of the real value of final expenditures;

Velcoity does matter. So if MPESA increases velocity in the short term, it follows it is a factor in the short term.



Drunkard
#19 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2012 10:20:50 PM
Rank: User


Joined: 5/3/2011
Posts: 559
@Muganda, you even made is easy to see! Good job!
MaichBlack
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2012 7:36:35 AM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 7/22/2009
Posts: 7,460
Henry Hazlitt criticized the concept of the velocity of money, citing that the equation used to calculate it ignored the psychological effects that also have a significant role in determining the value of a currency. As an example, he shows that in a period of inflation, that when the money is newly introduced, the price level increases by a smaller proportion than the increase in the supply of money, but that when the money has been in circulation for a while, that the price level has increased by a greater proportion than the supply of money. He states that this is not due to a change in the velocity of money, but rather the discrepancy is due to "fears . . . that the inflation will continue into the future, and that the value of the monetary unit will fall further." Hazlitt offers an alternative to the quantity theory of money and the velocity of money concept that is a necessary consequence. He explains that what changes the value of money is the value that people place on the currency, and that it is not the velocity of money that determines the value of a currency, but rather the sum of individuals' value of the currency that determines the velocity of money.

Ludwig von Mises offers a more philosophical criticism, "The main deficiency of the velocity of circulation concept is that it does not start from the actions of individuals but looks at the problem from the angle of the whole economic system. This concept in itself is a vicious mode of approaching the problem of prices and purchasing power. It is assumed that, other things being equal, prices must change in proportion to the changes occurring in the total supply of money available. This is not true."
Never count on making a good sale. Have the purchase price be so attractive that even a mediocre sale gives good returns.
Users browsing this topic
Guest (4)
3 Pages123>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2025 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.