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BIBILICAL EVENTS EXPLAINED.
josiah33
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 2:43:51 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
jonna wrote:
Lets start with Genesis.

In the beginning, there was Adam and Eve who went on to give birth to Cain and Abel. And then there was the rest of the population.
Expound on those events.

The bible supposedly has the facts misrepresented. Part of the answer lies in mitochondrial DNA and i will just copy paste what others have written.

Well, put it this way. You are a genetic mix of your parents, each of which contributed half of your genetic material. They, of course, have gone through the same process and share an equal split of their parent's DNA. This means if you stop this back-tracking process with your grandparents, you are already a genetic mix of six distinct individuals who may have come from different regions of the planet.

Why is Mitochondrial DNA important?

But one factor remains constant – the mitochondrial DNA hasn't altered at all – it remains intact through the female line. Male sperm contains only enough mitochondria to power the sperm to the surface of the egg – it does not enter the egg. The egg, however, contains mitochondria that have been passed from mother to daughter for countless generations. The only way for mitochondrial DNA to alter is by natural mutations, which occur very slowly when compared with the almost frantic gene mixing we and our parents take part in.

How Does This Relate to an 'Eve' Concept?

Because the rate of mitochondrial genetic mutation is slow, it can be used as a clock to turn back time to a period before the mutations had crept in. When mitochondrial DNA from certain populations in Africa are sampled, they can be compared with European mitochondrial DNA. The mutation difference between the two populations can then be compared, and a 'clock' can be produced, enabling the rate of mutation in mitochondria to be established. This produces a time-scale which indicates when modern Europeans first left Africa.
The genetic survey that produced the whole Mitochondrial Eve scenario didn't just sample Africans and Europeans – it sampled genes from people all over the planet. When mitochondrial DNA was compared, the survey discovered a startling result. Fundamental similarities in mitochondrial DNA in living humans suggested that we all contain genetic material from a single woman who was living in Africa around 200,000 years ago.

How Could a Single Being Populate a Planet?

And this is where the confusion sets in. A single organism can't populate a planet (arguments about amoeba aside). The evidence didn't suggest a single woman living in isolation from members of her own species. What it suggested was a genetic bottleneck – a period in human history when the population was so small that the genetic expressions of a single woman could have an impact on all humans living on the planet today.

She didn't live alone – she would have lived within a community. She didn't just pump babies out, either. There is no reason to suppose that she had more than one female child. But there is reason to suppose that whatever female children she had, they contained specific advantages for survival over the rest of the population.

Why Was She So Successful?

The reasons are all around you. What makes us so successful? An ability to share ideas, to help one another in dire circumstances, a certain creative flair to overcome everyday problems. Or perhaps she introduced the ability to slaughter those who came between us and required resources. We, as her children, display all of these traits. It could have been something as simple as wanderlust – a yearning to see what lay over the horizon. They were perhaps more fertile, were more agile, more resistant to disease, or could throw missiles more accurately than anyone else around at that time. If you want to find out, then next time you're on a bus, or train, or walking down the street, look around you – look at the behaviour of your extended family.

Is Any of This True?

Well, yes and no. To get a completely accurate result the tests would have to be performed on every single person living on the planet today. The dates are in dispute, but the date is perhaps the least important point. Broadly speaking, populations do pass through bottlenecks. Eve had many ancestors – it helps if you think about her as an hourglass – she was the pinch in the glass through which our genes ran. There had been many more Eves before her, she is just our most recent common ancestor. There will probably be more population bottlenecks and more Mitochondrial Eves in the future.

Adam's a different story, he lived many years after Eve and he is explained by the Human Y-chromosome DNA.

Each male receives his Y-chromosome from his father. As with mitochondrial DNA, we can trace back the Y-chromosome DNA to the one man from whom all Y-chromosomes came. This Y-Chromosome Adam is thought to have lived approximately 50,000 years ago.6 It is possible to use our knowledge of Y-chromosome diversity to study human migration in ancient history. For example, all Y-chromosomes of individuals outside of Africa carry a particular Y-chromosome mutation called M168. Hence, all of these variant Y-chromosomes are descended from the single male in which this mutation occurred. Some men of African descent have the M168 mutation and some do not. This is evidence that a small group of humans left Africa and, through succeeding millennia, spread around the globe. Genetic diversity studies estimate that the migration from Africa occurred approximately 50,000 years ago, not too long after the existence of Y-chromosome Adam.

Implications for Human Ancestry

Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosome Adam lived at different times, were probably separated by thousands of years and quite possibly were in different locations. Thus, a pictorial diagram tracking all men’s Y-chromosome DNA would not trace back to the spouse of Mitochondrial Eve. Although coalescence does not indicate that all humans descended from a single couple, Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosome Adam are nonetheless the source of a portion of our DNA, namely the Y-chromosome DNA and the mitochondrial DNA. The rest of our DNA, located in the nucleus, comes from a large number of other ancestors. Looking at the total variation in the DNA of humans around the world, scientists have estimated that all our DNA came from an original population of several thousand individuals.8 This relatively small population size suggests there was at least one bottleneck — a period of time where the population was reduced significantly — from which our current human population expanded.
tycho
#22 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 3:05:10 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
Still starting in Genesis, there's a question I used to ask as a kid; How could Moses write the book? What did he rely on to write the book?
kyt
#23 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:32:36 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 11/7/2007
Posts: 2,182
@josiah actually adan lived about 6000 yrs ago not that 50k you indicate
LOVE WHAT YOU DO, DO WHAT YOU LOVE.
josiah33
#24 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:37:49 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
tycho wrote:
Still starting in Genesis, there's a question I used to ask as a kid; How could Moses write the book? What did he rely on to write the book?

I have heard that the stories in Genesis are a collection of jewish oral tradition passed down for generations and put together piece by piece from various sources by a person(s) and edited to remove inconsistencies and be in line with changing times at that particular moment in history that the compiler lived.

From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BCE). This general agreement began to break down in the late 1970s, and today there are many theories but no consensus, or even majority viewpoint. Variations of the documentary hypothesis remain popular especially in America and Israel, and the identification of distinctive Deuteronomistic and Priestly theologies and vocabularies remains widespread, but they are used to form new approaches suggesting that the books were combined gradually over time by the slow accumulation of "fragments" of text, or that a basic text was "supplemented" by later authors/editors. At the same time there has been a tendency to bring the origins of the Pentateuch further forward in time, and the most recent proposals place it in 5th century Judah under the Persian empire.
josiah33
#25 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:54:58 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 1/27/2011
Posts: 1,777
kyt wrote:
@josiah actually adan lived about 6000 yrs ago not that 50k you indicate

Well! i don't believe the Earth is 6000 years old.
'user'
#26 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:16:05 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 12/3/2010
Posts: 1,141
Location: Londokwe
josiah33 wrote:
kyt wrote:
@josiah actually adan lived about 6000 yrs ago not that 50k you indicate

Well! i don't believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

the Noahs flood changed dating.
40 days of worldwide rain/flood ensured that sedimentary deposits appeared as if they were accumulated for millions of years.
2012 is here.Kenya is Ours.Be Part of The Peace Keeping Mission To Protect Our Motherland.Say No To Violence and Tribal Hatred .If you can read this,wewe ni mtu amesoma, usifikirie kama mtu hajaenda shule .Ni Hayo Tu
tycho
#27 Posted : Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:19:57 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 7/1/2011
Posts: 8,804
Location: Nairobi
josiah33 wrote:

I have heard that the stories in Genesis are a collection of jewish oral tradition passed down for generations and put together piece by piece from various sources by a person(s) and edited to remove inconsistencies and be in line with changing times at that particular moment in history that the compiler lived.



If we are talking of an evolution of a narrative, and most precisely, a narrative to suit a particular time, then the focus of such an evolution must be on the quality of mind of the intended audience.

The compiler must have had the intention of promoting a certain flow of consciousness on the readers/his society. The compiler is a Man of literature seeking to feed the psyche of his audience.

In the case of Genesis then, we are obliged to read it not as a scientific treatise, but a literary narrative that uses a set of rules that are peculiar to the genre.

I believe that other books of the bible should also be judged by the same criteria. And so far, I am not aware of any book that puts claim to 'scientific' exactitude.
funnyguy
#28 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 6:02:25 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 50
Just seen this post . . . let me see if I got this right on one of the hypothesis; a random intoxicated goat herder (Moses) just happens to be at the right place at the right time to witness the spontaneous combustion of a bush out in a vast desert. As a result of having ingested some hallucinogenic herbs, he hears a ‘still small voice’ coming from the burning bush and this inspires him to boldly stand before the ruler of the then known world and proclaim, “Thus saith the Lord!”


Not only that, the deluded goat herder threatens the ruler of the known world with ‘the ten plagues’ which just happen to coincide with the optimum climatic conditions ushering in the arrival of the first of exactly ten plagues? The herder further leads approximately two million freed slaves through a mass of water parted by a random gust of wind that stops after the slaves are done crossing to drown Egypt’s army . . . wow!


Some time back, I watched a series of Nat Geo documentaries attempting to scientifically make sense of Biblical account of events . . . I ended up more confused than ever. Science will accept the fact that these events happened but will not accept the simple fact that God caused them to happen? Is the idea of ‘God’ really as foolish as the Bible asserts? Clearly it would seem so. Is it an issue of lack of faith? I doubt it; it requires more faith to believe in the coincidental, perfect chain of random natural events than it does to believe in the Almighty God. Yet, without faith it is impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6). Many possess a form of godliness but deny God’s powerful manifestation (2 Timothy 3:5). The way I see it, you either believe in the Bible in full or you don’t- nothing more, nothing less.
sparkly
#29 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 8:13:36 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
josiah33 wrote:
1.WATER FROM THE ROCK-For a rock to give out water it has to be able to store water and so it has to be porous. Porous rocks exist, for example, sandstone and limestone, which can absorb huge quantities of water from rain. In fact when they are underground we use them as aquifers, natural reservoirs of water, and we sink wells and boreholes into them to extract the water.

Over time, rocks in the desert can develop a hard impervious crust, a bit like cement, and this is due to weathering. Modern Bedouin call this hard crust “desert varnish”, and it provides a smooth surface for their rock art. If the crust of a porous rock is broken by a sharp blow, water can indeed flow out and this is an effect which is well known to hydrogeologists.

So was Moses obtaining water from a rock a miracle? What we have seen is that water coming from a rock violates no natural laws. The biblical story fits what we know from science. In particular, Moses struck the rock to break the crust and “the rock at Horeb” implies a large rock which could have contained much water.



If am in the desert for one week and have not drank water and someone strikes a rock, smashes it, drills a borehole or whatever. If the rock produces water and i quench my parched throat, whether i am religious or not... THATS A MIRACLE.
Life is short. Live passionately.
nwamaina
#30 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2012 9:20:17 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/29/2011
Posts: 102
Location: Nairobi,Kenya
@josiah33...you need faith to believe in the Bible,if you try to compare and contrast God and Science...you get lost without answers,without faith you cannot believe.
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