Wazua
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Treasury Bills Investing-Procedure?
Rank: Elder Joined: 2/16/2007 Posts: 2,114
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/21/2010 Posts: 514 Location: Nairobi
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Nabwire wrote:erifloss wrote:Nabwire wrote:[quote=erifloss]Everything held constant for the year at the current rate of 20.696%, if one rolls over their investment the effective rate will be around 22.35% now where else can one get a safe return like this. 20% is roughly 5% every 3 months, even if we get generous and stretch it to 9% every 3 months, thats only 3% per month!! Nimekataa, there are stocks that rally 10% in a couple of days, I just dont get it. But then again, Im not loking for a safe return. I think you should check the average loss for the last 6 months alone at the NSE and also remember this is an elections year. To be true to ourselves foreigners are the ones who initiate most of the rallies and this year i don't see them coming in but getting out in droves. The economic environment is not also that promising. I'm totally happy with a 20% return.[/quote And here is where the true investors are separated from the wannabes. If you look at the market as being down and that foreigners are fleeing, you miss the half full analogy of this being a great buying opportunity. We all know markets are cyclical, so even if they are fleeing, they will be back  There is money to be made. I see alot of herd mentality here, Tbills are safe, they are not great. It takes great risk to make great money, why would one want to preserve their capital when they could grow it? (Granted there is a chance of "losing" the capital) A good example, EK has more than doubled in less than a week Granted it is a huge risk coz the comapny may be going to bankruptcy, but no pain no gain. Why in hell would I tie up my money in Tbills for a paltry 3% per month???!!! http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=EK&ql=1
I think you are mistaking what a true investor is all about. A true investor thinks of returns both today and in the future. If i don't preserve my capital, what will i use in the future and remember capital is a scarce resource and if well preserved you'll always make good returns on it. That said, as you've been asked name one company that will give a return of 20%! 1. Interest rates are up with no signal of going down. 2. Though inflation has gone down, all indicators point to it going up which basically means interest rates might be pushed up further. 3. The largest consumers of our horticultural products and tourism are in a financial mess created by their own over-spending and over-borrowing. I don't see this sector growing any further with this trend and remember these are our highest forex earners. This simply means the forex rates will be on their way up again very soon.(Interest rates further up again). 4. If your are in the US, you know what is common about LinkedIn, Groupon, Zynga & Pandora. They all had IPOs in 2011, they are good investments, big but what strikes me is that all but LinkedIn are trading below their IPO prices (Its all over not in Kenya alone) 4. Elections! elections! elections! Simply said Nabwire, i like investing but i love my money more and i hate losing it if i don't see a glimpse of making anything out of any loss. T bills rein supreme as of now. Check these stats: http://www.knbs.or.ke/news/lei112011.pdf
http://www.knbs.or.ke/cpi/cpi122011.pdf
http://www.knbs.or.ke/news/gdp32011.pdf
Smart money had seen this way before and gone for Gold or Govt securities. 'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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Hold on people, I think we've everything mixed up here, first different people have different risk appetites so there is no good for all advice here, someone who is more risk averse will go with T-BILLS and someone who is less risk averse will go with more risk investments. Also investment objective varies from people to people and across different age sets, some people are alittle older or a little stable and are looking to preserve their capital, some are young and looking to make money.
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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Drunkard wrote:Hold on people, I think we've everything mixed up here, first different people have different risk appetites so there is no good for all advice here, someone who is more risk averse will go with T-BILLS and someone who is less risk averse will go with more risk investments. Also investment objective varies from people to people and across different age sets, some people are alittle older or a little stable and are looking to preserve their capital, some are young and looking to make money.
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money! Stocks vs T/Bills Risk appetite? You have to be a bit nuts not to take a guranteed 20% return on your money right now hoping for returns above 20% in the stock market
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Rank: User Joined: 5/3/2011 Posts: 559
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@ For Sport
I wouldnT take the 20% stock and 20% bond guranteed and view it plainly like that, remember there is an inverse relationship between interest rates and the value of the bonds, also you must look at the relationship between spot rates and current T-BILL rates and the implication to the future market rate, in this case required rate of return. If you take a stream of cashflow from TBill and model it with a stream of cashflow from a mutual fund investing in stocks, there is a point on the duration of the bond where the returns converge at this point the intrinsic value of the two investments are equal but beyond this point the mutual fund investor start getting the alpha and the bond investor is exposed to reinvestment risk.
But again, if you're looking at bond and stock market as uncorralated then you can hold that view that.
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 7/22/2011 Posts: 1,325
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Drunkard wrote:
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money!
Leo Drunkard hako keroro, umesema ukweli kabisa!!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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Nabwire wrote:Drunkard wrote:
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money!
Leo Drunkard hako keroro, umesema ukweli kabisa!! 
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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Cde Monomotapa wrote:Nabwire wrote:Drunkard wrote:
Lastly there is a difference between day-trading and investing, research has shown that buy and hold in the long run make more money than day trading and also in average day traders loose money!
Leo Drunkard hako keroro, umesema ukweli kabisa!! 10K Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/21/2010 Posts: 514 Location: Nairobi
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20.799%. Last Thursday's Auction for non-competitive bids for the 91 days bill. Up & rising. MOF are contemplating of going to the international markets for funds but i think that this year being an election year, i don't think the yield on any debt they'll issue will fully fulfill foreigners risk appetite. 'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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erifloss wrote:20.799%. Last Thursday's Auction for non-competitive bids for the 91 days bill. Up & rising.
MOF are contemplating of going to the international markets for funds but i think that this year being an election year, i don't think the yield on any debt they'll issue will fully fulfill foreigners risk appetite. This thing could hit 27% before we know it,I am glad I am dipping in it in batches of 100K at least every fortnight! Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 6/21/2010 Posts: 514 Location: Nairobi
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Impunity wrote:erifloss wrote:20.799%. Last Thursday's Auction for non-competitive bids for the 91 days bill. Up & rising.
MOF are contemplating of going to the international markets for funds but i think that this year being an election year, i don't think the yield on any debt they'll issue will fully fulfill foreigners risk appetite. This thing could hit 27% before we know it,I am glad I am dipping in it in batches of 100K at least every fortnight! Myself i've been spreading at 200k every fortnight and the returns are sweet. Started at around October on the 91 day paper though i was already in bonds and had my first rollover last week while some guys were and are still 'averaging down' on stocks. 'They say money cannot buy me happiness but when i compare when i had none and now, i'm happier' Kevin O'leary
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Rank: Elder Joined: 3/2/2009 Posts: 26,328 Location: Masada
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erifloss wrote:Impunity wrote:erifloss wrote:20.799%. Last Thursday's Auction for non-competitive bids for the 91 days bill. Up & rising.
MOF are contemplating of going to the international markets for funds but i think that this year being an election year, i don't think the yield on any debt they'll issue will fully fulfill foreigners risk appetite. This thing could hit 27% before we know it,I am glad I am dipping in it in batches of 100K at least every fortnight! Myself i've been spreading at 200k every fortnight and the returns are sweet. Started at around October on the 91 day paper though i was already in bonds and had my first rollover last week while some guys were and are still 'averaging down' on stocks. Even if the averaging price approaches that one of paka. Portfolio: Sold
You know you've made it when you get a parking space for your yatcht.
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Rank: Member Joined: 11/26/2009 Posts: 67 Location: Pare pare
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@erifloss,impunity et al Was looking for info on how to purchase t-bills without the hustle of going to cbk (for special cds a/c opening & filling in the forms) since I work far from town. Found a solution with cfc stanbic, all I need to do is open an account with them and request them to purchase the t-bills for me,the money gets debited from my account. They charge a commission of 0.139% they say. Anyone using them? Hug the bear....ride the bull.....di$mount!!!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 11/11/2006 Posts: 972 Location: Home
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Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!!
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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holycow wrote:Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!!
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Rank: Elder Joined: 6/27/2008 Posts: 4,114
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Amana Money Market Fund is paying 21%; where are they putting the money? Nothing is real unless it can be named; nothing has value unless it can be sold; money is worthless unless you spend it.
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Rank: Chief Joined: 8/4/2010 Posts: 8,977
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holycow wrote:Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!! Kudos @holycow. Cash out now or you'll wait till end of Q1 - March 31st. Can u hold till end of Q1 we compare notes...$15/barrel oil... The commodities lehman moment arrives as well as Sovereign debt volcano!
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Rank: Veteran Joined: 12/23/2010 Posts: 1,229
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holycow wrote:Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!! Paper Gain vs Real Gain
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Rank: Chief Joined: 5/31/2011 Posts: 5,121
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hisah wrote:holycow wrote:Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!! Kudos @holycow. Cash out now or you'll wait till end of Q1 - March 31st. Can u hold till end of Q1 we compare notes... Holycow!İ! You are a bottom picker, or was it just luck¿ Am sure most Cde's(read kcb holders and die hards) are not with you at that level of gains 
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Rank: Chief Joined: 1/13/2011 Posts: 5,964
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mwekez@ji wrote:hisah wrote:holycow wrote:Nabwire wrote:And Hisah 20% by end of March? Tbills will yield 5% by the same time. Apples & Oranges? Well, to me, KCB has yielded a net of 24.33% from 29th November 2011 to 30th January 2012. Comrade CDE, Loar!! Kudos @holycow. Cash out now or you'll wait till end of Q1 - March 31st. Can u hold till end of Q1 we compare notes... Holycow!İ! You are a bottom picker, or was it just luck¿ Am sure most Cde's(read kcb holders and die hards) are not with you at that level of gains tihihi...he can laugh now, and I will laugh louder later.
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