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List of companies that conspire to defraud shareholders
sparkly
#21 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:30:30 PM
Rank: Elder


Joined: 9/23/2009
Posts: 8,083
Location: Enk are Nyirobi
slykat wrote:
And what do we learn from this informative discussion?

Steer clear of companies run and managed by appointees of one-wo/man shows or by a small clique of friends (or foreigners), or family business. Stick to huge companies not controlled by any one person, clique or family, in which case there will definitely be whistle blowing if something untoward happens.

To my layman mind therefore, companies that fall under such x categories may include TCL, Uchumi, EACBL, Olympia, Sameer companies, Total and Safcom and Unga (for price transfers), and to some extend, Centum. Etc. Am not suggesting there is wrong-doing there, just that if there were, it would be near impossible to find out.


Standard Group, I have this creepy feeling about the company.
Life is short. Live passionately.
cmk
#22 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 10:03:38 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 479


mkonomtupu wrote:
interesting debate, in my view audited accounts add very value when valuing a company. I have seen my accountant cook books the auditors didn't notice the glaring errors and of course he takes them out for lunch. It's always upon the investor to put a true value to an investment, it's a risk that's why you invest in a company you understand. if you are purchasing land you don't go to the government valuer to give you report, you must do the due diligence yourself, check the property if it has squatters.


@Mkonoempty
Please fire that accountant..i see more problems coming your way.
Every man is guilty of all the good he didn't do-
Voltaire
mozenrat
#23 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 2:25:40 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Kihangeri wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:

As already discussed elsewhere in Wazua, there is no audit procedure that Deloitte could have carried out to uncover offshore bank accounts that were not in the CMC's books of accounts.


Are you defending the thugs?

When you do auditing, the results are used to give a clear picture of the status of a company financially. For example, they should have highlighted the fact that the company was leaking cash from uncompetitive logistics and supply contracts.

If you look at the books, the obvious picture that would emerge when you sell more cars is better profits. Instead, even after selling 150 Passats, the idiots did not reflect an appreciation in profits. Why?

That is when the auditors would have informed shareholders that they could not guarantee the company to be a going concern as it was leaking from the rear end, front and under. Tell tail signs are always there. If they can steal from the source of the vehicles, what would stop them from stealing from the selling point and by extension other funds made available to them by shareholders locally?

As stated by @accelriskconsult, this discussion has been had and is now just being duplicated... CMC is STILL a going concern and Deloitte signed off that they are.. Where did you get the impression that it is not? The responsibility of an external auditor is to verify on behalf of the shareholders that the financial statements are a true and fair reflection of the company's state of affairs whether positively or negatively.. i.e. they can give an unqualified opinion saying that the company made a 20B loss or a 20B profit. There is absolutely no requirement for the auditor to report to shareholders that the company is paying too much to suppliers. They may report to the board but not to shareholders. I would also still love to know how the auditors would have detected that invoices from the CMC suppliers were +0.5%.. the Purchase orders had the +0.5, the invoices had +0.5 and the payments had the 0.5%.. Even if someone thought the vehicles should have been cheaper by 0.5%, that would have been a reflection of management's poor negotiation skills with their suppliers which again is NOT a reportable issue until and unless the 0.5 was going to cause CMC to cease operations by the end of the next 12 months... This argument smacks of hiring a housegirl to wash clothes and then expecting extras..

mozenrat
#24 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 2:35:39 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Kihangeri wrote:


Now that Pricewaterhouse is auditing CMC records, what is the objective? Ask Bill Lay and he will tell you.


Boss, the people from PwC now conducting an audit are NOT financial statement auditors... they are forensic investigators (totally different department with totally different skillset).. They've not been hired to do any of the stuff that deloitte was doing... FYI, Deloitte are STILL the external auditors at CMC... I suppose next you'll be asking for the Tax Accountants from KPMG to conduct a corporate restructurng exercise of CMC
mozenrat
#25 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 2:43:55 PM
Rank: Veteran


Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
gathinga wrote:
With this line, TOTAL is the other culprit where shareholders are being shafted. How are they reporting losses while their peers(KK) is reporting supernormal profits growth even for the kenya business segment? Same operating environment. and looking at their margins, something isn't straight with TOTAL'S books. And who are their auditors?


and what exactly is the EXTERNAL auditor supposed to do about the above?? They've already reviewed the statements and declared that the amount of losses reported is CORRECT...That is all they're supposed to do.. The responsibility of keeping the company profitable belongs to management ama what is the CEO paid for?? This is ridiculous.. you expect the auditors to run the company as well
@Gathinga considering that you once requested for audit software, I have to assume that you're an auditor.. Quit and find out what your work is first.
mzeiya411
#26 Posted : Friday, November 25, 2011 6:31:21 PM
Rank: Member


Joined: 1/17/2010
Posts: 142
Location: Twiha
sparkly wrote:
[quote=slykat]

Standard Group, I have this creepy feeling about the company.


@sparkly your creepy feeling is not misguided here is a co. which takes an overdraft to pay Divs.Shame on you Shame on you Shame on you
Thiong'o
#27 Posted : Tuesday, January 17, 2012 11:19:25 AM
Rank: Member


Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 661
An unofficial panel of experts cleared global accounting groups KPMG and Ernst & Young of any responsibility for a $1.7 billion accounting fraud at Japan's Olympus Corp.

The scandal, one of corporate Japan's worst, had raised questions over the role of the two audit firms, which signed off on the accounts of the maker of medical equipment and cameras before the 13-year fraud finally surfaced in October.

The panel effectively found the fraud, identified by a separate investigation as having being hatched by two former top executives in the 1990s to conceal losses, had been too well covered up for the external audit firms to have unraveled it.

"The masterminds of this case were hiding the illegal acts by artfully manipulating experts' opinions," the report said

Read more..
http://finance.yahoo.com...ng-firms-000637463.html

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