wazua Wed, Mar 25, 2026
Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Log In

6 Pages«<23456>
Dirty old men of corporate Kenya
2012
#31 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:17:25 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 12/9/2009
Posts: 6,592
Location: Nairobi
There's one question I cannot get out of my head, If this dirty old man was stealing pocket change from a small company like CMC, can you imagine how much he might have stolen from eabl if at all he had the chance to dip his dirty old fingers in that jar?

Diageo should do an audit through his chairmanship and if he's still the chairman, he should be forced to step aside to allow for investigations. I can bet they'll unearth something.

As for the new MD Bill, I hope there're no skeletons in your closet... but being in the motor vehicle industry, I doubt you are that clean...

BBI will solve it
:)
mozenrat
#32 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 1:44:28 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Jamani wrote:
mozenrat wrote:

Exactly.. How?? I expect that their procedures would entail a review of the invoices posted on the company's financial systems and as well as vouching a sample of the physical invoices... but if both records contain the cost + the 0.5%, how is the auditor supposed to tell that there is a fraud..

and yes, auditors uncover fraud in listed companies in Kenya all the time and report this to the board (there is no requirement for them to report to shareholders). For instance, the fraud that led to a number of dealers losing their contracts with Safcom was reported by their external auditor. The only thing is the figures involved MUST be material (when considered against the company's overall position) in order for the auditors to qualify his opinion on the financial statement.


You must be an auditor or rather you have spoken as an auditor.... though I feel different about auditors (these are people we pay to come look at our watch and tell us the time, if its set wrongly they will just say its working fine) I rest my case...


@Jamani.. I have just asked a simple question. If you had an auditor friend and he accompanied you to Toi Market where a trader quoted the price of a pair of shoes at 2500, how would you expect the auditor to differentiate between "kugongwa" na huyo muuzaji and a prior agreement you may have made with the trader for him to quote a higher (fake) price in order for you to impress your presumably female auditor friend.
Thiong'o
#33 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:52:58 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 661
accelriskconsult wrote:
Jamani, Mozen, RVP agreed and thanks for coming to the table to debate a very important issue.

2 questions to those of you who may know;

1. Does CMC have internal audit and risk management departments?
2. Do you think a whistle blowing hotline would have helped?


@ accelriskconsult, this is my take, I also think @ RVP has very strong / valid argument.

Your questions are most relevant questions as these are the departments with responsibility of detecting irregulalities and fraud. External audit relies on the internal audit function to an extend, but we may also wish to know where the departments (if at all existed) reported to –the board? the Board Audit Committee?. There might be many audit finding/recommedations made but not implemented or left to gather dust.

Whereas the scope and objectives of internal audit vary widely and are dependent on the responsibilities assigned to it by management the size and structure of the company, the skills and experience auditors, normally internal audit operates in one or more of the following areas;
a. review of accoounting systems and related internal controlsb. examination of financial and operating information for m anagement, including detailed testing of transactions and balances
c. review of the economy, efficiency and effectiveness of operations and the functioning of nonfinancial controls
d. review of the implementation of corporate policies, plans and procedures
e. Special investigations

You may also follow some discussions on internal audit in relation to external audit functions here.

http://www.theiia.org/fu...tid=8&threadid=3909

Whsltle blowing will definitely help, but the question we ask is, does the company have a whistle blowing policy in the first palce? Do they have hotline numbers/email?.

mozenrat
#34 Posted : Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:37:43 PM
Rank: Veteran

Joined: 5/18/2008
Posts: 796
Whistle-blowing would probably help..maybe we should say that IT DID help albeit in an unorthodox manner since the beans were only spilt after a fallout.
Millonare
#35 Posted : Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:26:36 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/25/2007
Posts: 17
@accelriskconsult & @mozenrat...good points and the reality is that probably there is alot of similar irregularities being perpetrated in some of the companies at the detriment of shareholders. CMA is starting to get some teeth,CBK has been quite vigilant though my worry is IRA. We might get some shockers from the insurance industry.
VituVingiSana
#36 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 12:08:10 AM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 1/3/2007
Posts: 18,351
Location: Nairobi
Insurgent wrote:
Kiereini is being accused of amassing wealth in Jersey with the help of one Foster who was the CEO of CMC for 20yrs. Finally we can see how our old men are not as clean as we thought.

The nedegwa kids are living off what their wazee (philip & duncan) did at CBK. Manipulation of KES with special forex allocation to friends.
Greedy when others are fearful. Very fearful when others are greedy - to paraphrase Warren Buffett
Sure
#37 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:12:07 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 546
Location: Garissa
Another dirty old and smelly man is one Sir Mharles Cugane Jojo. MO1 is becoming a strange dirty old man as time goes on. He steals Samburu's land and sells the same some years later to KWS for 400m. Who did he buy the land from initially and how much did he pay for it.

Another Kamzee who has been hiding behind his dirty smile is one Kjenga Narume. He used to screw his secretary with promises of marrying her.

If he did that with one who is now coming forward, how many others has he done but preferred to remain silent in shame? And he wants to be recognised as a Kikuyu elder. Kikuyu elders are not anointed based on funny billions, its all about a man who has lived a straight life.
Wisdom to detect when share prices hit rock bottom.
When interest on bonds keep going up, you know the bear run is on high street. When interest on bonds start leveling, the bear has met the bull and they have hit rock bottom. When the interest rates on bonds start coming down, the bull has overpowered the bear and you better be riding the bull.
Sure
#38 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:21:29 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 546
Location: Garissa
Jamani wrote:
accelriskconsult wrote:
Jamani wrote:
[quote=accelriskconsult][quote=Jamani][quote=accelriskconsult]




1. Remember misstatement is qualified by the preceding work, materially.

2. Read the story again and you will realise that the only record of the accounts referred to was the dossier that was found in the former MD's safe. The only way to obtain this information was (a) to break in to the MD's safe (b) To have an internal source at a very high level leak the information. Remember the accounts are not even held with Kenyan banks, are not in the company's general ledger, and according to the management and board never existed. I read it and its okay I have no disputes, its clear

Deloitte ought to have resigned as the Company's auditors as soon as the story of the secret accounts emerged. This is my exact point, i remember the same company had an issue at one AGM of KCB, wanjiku shareholders wanted them out but Oraro saved them, well i know they wouldnt have made it due to holdings. . Not because of any guilt on their part, but because (i) management made false written representations to them (ii) Their independence is already compromised. Third do they have a name to maintain?




wanjiku shareholders wanted them out but Oraro saved them,

This Oraro should be kicked in the balls. Who is he to subvert shareholder interests? Shareholders should start lynching directors and auditors who are siphoning shareholders' funds or conniving to defraud them.
Wisdom to detect when share prices hit rock bottom.
When interest on bonds keep going up, you know the bear run is on high street. When interest on bonds start leveling, the bear has met the bull and they have hit rock bottom. When the interest rates on bonds start coming down, the bull has overpowered the bear and you better be riding the bull.
Thiong'o
#39 Posted : Thursday, November 24, 2011 5:16:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 661
Don’t blow the whistle

A law may be enacted that would make it harder to expose corruption.

http://www.economist.com/node/21540312
Kihangeri
#40 Posted : Thursday, December 15, 2011 8:31:19 AM
Rank: User

Joined: 11/10/2010
Posts: 550
Location: Junction
The revelations of wrong doing relating to one of the oldest Companies in the country, Cooper Motor Corporation Ltd (CMC) raises interesting issues relating to corporate governance.

The alleged backdoor and boardroom manipulations, if true, must disclose criminal intent at the top-level management and the publicly quoted entity must answer not only to the shareholders but the country generally.

In a very old case, a judge had this to say on corporate criminal responsibility:

"Corporate bodies are more corrupt and profligate than individuals, because they have more power to do mischief, and are less amenable to disgrace or punishment. They neither feel shame, remorse, gratitude nor goodwill".

History of corporate collapse in Kenya discloses that it is the public and innocent shareholders, depositors, and tax payers who lose their hard earned wealth whilst the culprits of criminal mismanagement go scot-free.

Remember Trust Bank, Trade Bank, Kenya Finance Corporation, Reliance Bank, Kenyatta National Hospital, NSSF, NHIF, Kenya Pipeline Company Uchumi Ltd?

No convictions have ever followed, and the attempts to bring to court the perpetuators of massive frauds have been feeble, disjointed and lacking in expertise.

It is a well known fact that expatriates are paid two salaries, one taxed locally, others couched in foreign exchange accounts in the tax haven areas such as the Jersey Islands.


Shareholders should have an vested interest activism association. These dirty old men should be lynched or driven out of town. They are too evil to reform.
By inference, the man is all that Mr Phantom is not: an untrustworthy radical, divisive, too many enemies, a dictator, and a persistent liar...
Gaitho dialogues.


6 Pages«<23456>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Copyright © 2026 Wazua.co.ke. All Rights Reserved.