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Questioning the validity of Church!?
scout_boy
#31 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 11:45:20 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 7/16/2011
Posts: 59
We have to differentiate ;The Bible,Christianity and Religion.The Bible for instance ,doesn't mention Christianity and only discusses religion once.


Going by the first subject:

Within the existence of the Church only a fraction of the bible has been added, that of the New Testament.

If the Church (a group of individuals) came up with this text ,WHY?


A close look at early church history would reveal:
1.There were no significant monetary gains to be made ,am glad this is coming out.Money is a big motivator for religious activities.
Take Dr.Dawkins for instance ,how much does he make from his books ,conferences etc?I would say alot.
Jesus ,the disciples did not opportunity to get a publishing deal.



2.The writers of the bible save for some, died painful martyrs.The followers too of this teachings followed the same fateful predicament.
Two things come out:
The writers of this scriptures knew what they had written was false.Why then would they die for something they knew was false?Having the knowledge, that even for we consider to be factual or cherishable we can hardly give our lives in such a gruesome way.


Facing a fiery a furnace,Crucifixion,lions in amphitheatre etc these writers would have simply have admitted they invented these scriptures.

The same situation would have faced the early readers of these texts.The Church did not begin and flourish in some backwater society.The Greek and Roman societies were the most sophisticated then they could easily tell
facts of history (as the bible has historical facts denoted).

This perhaps ,is the biggest selling point of the message.





YesuWangu
#32 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:14:21 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Rahatupu wrote:


Religion is a delusion that seeks to explain phenomena from the angle of a supernatural maker driven by the fear of death and its inexplicable yet finalistic nature. All explanations deriving from religion are fatalistic and premised on an initial fallacy. Look at the justification of murder in the old Testament and what Al Qaeda/Al shabaab and the similarity is striking.


Kumbe there was a debate here and I was none the wiser?

Anyway, the books of Leviticus and the others are favorite set books in this school of thought.

In this school, it is somehow not mentioned that those terrible things have been abolished. This proof exists.

They should be given more weight.

Rollout wrote:
Is there a possibility that the bible was a genious writings of people like william shakespeare and the church is just but a big Ponzi scheme?

Maybe the devil is using me but think about it. Anyway, I love the teachings of the bible but it is hard to believe on some things. Just saying!


The original poster already believes the devil is around. If he did not believe so he could not have attributed his musings to this devil.

On that score alone, he should make up his mind. If he believes the devil exists, then he has no reason to believe God does not exist as explained in the bible.
otienosmall
#33 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 2:12:00 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 281
What if the modern man was created by another civilized race out there in the galaxy probably via genetic engineering or other techniques that we are yet to discover!. Note that the extent to which the galaxies extends is mind boggling. Archaeological finds, the Sumerian’ Artifacts and the Anunnakis highly depicts a possibility of a higher intelligence that predates the current man. The design of the pyramids of Egypt and probably the bible could have been the works of that intelligence. Pyramids similar to those in Egypt have been discovered lately in other places like China, Iraq etc. Ancient Gold mines in the Middle East, South Africa and other places indicate that that intelligent being mined precious metals on Earth long before the current civilization…..A weird thought that man was engineered as a slave tool for those guys….
http://67.159.223.63/sumerians.html
http://www.abovetopsecre.../forum/thread659393/pg1
YesuWangu
#34 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:04:25 PM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Mr. Otieno, these are the questions that baffle me as well.

Such archeological evidence points to man as an intelligent being, not an evolving thing. Such evidence demolish evolution, for an ape cannot build or do such.

That they point to intelligent design of an intelligent being is a step forward, IMHO.
Kwanini
#35 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:35:50 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 1/28/2009
Posts: 353
Location: Cloud
i do not know many things, but i know for sure some of these chaps purporting to work for Jesus are moneymakers and direct Conmen stealing in the name of God. But i still would recomend children be brought up in a church oriented setup...
"For i am the master and the captain of my fate"
youcan'tstopusnow
#36 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:36:17 PM
Rank: Chief

Joined: 3/24/2010
Posts: 6,779
Location: Black Africa
Similarities between Jesus and Pagan Gods

http://thedevineevidence...jesus_similarities.html

Egyptian god Horus:

• He was born on December 25th of a virgin - Isis Mary
• A star in the East proclaimed his arrival
• Three kings came to adore the new-born “savior”
• He became a child prodigy teacher at age 12
• At age 30 he was “baptized” and began a “ministry”
• Horus had twelve “disciples”
• Horus was betrayed
• He was crucified
• He was buried for three days
• He was resurrected after three days





GOD BLESS YOUR LIFE
Rollout
#37 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 4:50:11 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/26/2011
Posts: 759
... I am not questioning the existance of a supernatural being, call him God or any name, my question is about the church itself and the bible.. is there a possibility that the people of those days as they try to define where they came from, wrote some fiction stories which later became the bible?

...I have sat in a number of churches and most of them has every element a ponzi scheme has. So maybe as human try to define where they came from some good businessmen came in and took over the message.
mzeekijana
#38 Posted : Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:16:40 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/12/2010
Posts: 111
Location: MOMBASA
Rollout wrote:
...
...I have sat in a number of churches and most of them has every element a ponzi scheme has. So maybe as human try to define where they came from some good businessmen came in and took over the message.


hebu tupashe hizo "elements" za ponzi scheme....
YesuWangu
#39 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 7:02:14 AM
Rank: Elder

Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 1,588
Rollout wrote:
... I am not questioning the existance of a supernatural being, call him God or any name, my question is about the church itself and the bible.. is there a possibility that the people of those days as they try to define where they came from, wrote some fiction stories which later became the bible?

...I have sat in a number of churches and most of them has every element a ponzi scheme has. So maybe as human try to define where they came from some good businessmen came in and took over the message.


I know for certain that there are businessmen and women who are capitalizing on the bible. That is not in doubt.

If we try and match the status of the writers of the bible with their contemporaries (back then) they hardly match up to the comfort their contemporaries had at their time. In contrast to modern churches. They are even richer and wealthier than their contemporaries.

As for fiction stories, that is a different kettle of fish.
scout_boy
#40 Posted : Wednesday, November 02, 2011 8:49:34 AM
Rank: New-farer

Joined: 7/16/2011
Posts: 59
Quote:
What if the modern man was created by another civilized race out there in the galaxy probably via genetic engineering or other techniques that we are yet to discover!. Note that the extent to which the galaxies extends is mind boggling. Archaeological finds, the Sumerian’ Artifacts and the Anunnakis highly depicts a possibility of a higher intelligence that predates the current man. The design of the pyramids of Egypt and probably the bible could have been the works of that intelligence. Pyramids similar to those in Egypt have been discovered lately in other places like China, Iraq etc. Ancient Gold mines in the Middle East, South Africa and other places indicate that that intelligent being mined precious metals on Earth long before the current civilization…..A weird thought that man was engineered as a slave tool for those guys….
http://67.159.223.63/sumerians.html
http://www.abovetopsecre.../forum/thread659393/pg1






This sounds credible but it goes against scientific facts.

The galaxies where these aliens came from then must have lifeforms.These galaxies must be under the same physical conditions as planet Earth for life to exist.Since the universe began at the same instant.It is unlikely these aliens evolved faster than the rest of species on Earth to come and colonise them.

If there are aliens they must be from beyond this Universe(not necessarily governed by time and Space).



@youcan'tstopnow,


The article answers most of the allegations:
However I will add:


1.25th Date is not in the bible.
2.It cannot be known how many kings came to visit Jesus.The visitors only brought three gifts.
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